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[QUOTE=RRR3;14406709]Wade was comparable to LeBron in 2012? Are you on meth? Also sadly for you, LeBron also won in 2013 with Wade’s corpse. What’s your excuse for that? :yaohappy:[/QUOTE]
Uhhh I've been talking about Wade and J. Not LeBron and Wade,
[QUOTE=RRR3;14406706]MJ was 2 years away from retirement in 96 guess he wasn’t in his prime :oldlol:
Holy ****, dude just stop, this is embarrassing.[/QUOTE]
Kobe wasn't in his prime at 33. :confusedshrug: This topic is over your head, chief.
[QUOTE=MadDog;14406713]Uhhh I've been talking about Wade and J. Not LeBron and Wade,
Kobe wasn't in his prime at 33. :confusedshrug: This topic is over your head, chief.[/QUOTE]
And yet you hate on LeBron and CP3 for not winning a ring at 36. Hmm. What’s with randomly bringing up Kobe?
[IMG] https://i.ibb.co/jZ3qXz6/5610-A558-7-AC4-440-D-BEE1-3-F55364-AE3-B1.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=RRR3;14406716]And yet you hate on LeBron and CP3 for not winning a ring at 36. Hmm. What’s with randomly bringing up Kobe?[/QUOTE]
I'm literally running laps around you lol. Kobe was mentioned to stomp on your MJ example. 33 and "still priming" isn't the case for everyone. It definitely wasn't for Kobe, and I don't believe it was for J - who put up great numbers, and yet was still second fiddle to Malone.
In his prime, does J take a backseat? Doubtful.
[QUOTE=MadDog;14406726][B]I'm literally running laps around you lol.[/B] Kobe was mentioned to stomp on your MJ example. 33 and "still priming" isn't the case for everyone. It definitely wasn't for Kobe, and I don't believe it was for J - who put up great numbers, and yet was still second fiddle to Malone.
In his prime, does J take a backseat? Doubtful.[/QUOTE]
Are you on crack? You’ve literally been factually proven wrong multiple times in this thread. I’m actually embarrassed for you, this is sad. You have no actual arguments you just hate LeBron. Come back when you’re willing to actually make good points.
Doc averaged 18/8/3 in the 83 playoffs, and shot 45%. Yet this idiot LeBron fan is crying over me saying Doc wasn't priming. :oldlol: Yeah, OK
[QUOTE=RRR3;14406728]Are you on crack? You’ve literally been factually proven wrong multiple times in this thread. I’m actually embarrassed for you, this is sad. You have no actual arguments you just hate LeBron. Come back when you’re willing to actually make good points.[/QUOTE]
Where? :confusedshrug: In your tiny head, posting memes and dikkriding posters is a W.
[QUOTE=MadDog;14406703]We've all been wrong, but that isn't the case here. Saying a dude at 33 is past their physical prime isn't wrong. What years do you consider his prime? I can "concede" J was still playing at a high level, and have said as much. But the "prime" stuff is certainly debatable. There have been PLENTY of players who produced and were still considered great, but just not at their best. I believe J's best years physically were behind him. In 83, he was 4 years away from retirement.[/QUOTE]
I didn't see Dr. J play so I can't really say he was or wasn't in his physical prime. But his physical attributes are irrelevant to the conversation; it's what how he produced that really matters.
The fact that he was so high in the MVP voting, All-NBA 1st Team, top 5 in scoring, and top 5 in advanced metrics (top 5 in most categories), tells us that he was absolutely not out of his prime. I don't believe this is debatable. I mean, he led that team to the ECF and they also won 58 games.
Was he in his prime in 1981? If not, then why? Compare 1981 to 1982.
1981: 24.6/8.0/4.4/2.1/1.8 with 3.2 TOs on 52/22/79
1982: 24.4/6.9/3.9/2.2/1.7 with 2.6 TOs on 54/27/76
How about the playoffs?
1981: 22.9/7.1/3.4/1.4/2.6 with 3.4 TOs on 48/0/76
1982: 22.0/7.4/4.7/1.8/1.8 with 3.2 TOs on 52/17/75
The numbers are almost identical. And Dr. J was 31 in 1982, not 33. So was Dr. J also not in his prime in 1981? He finished All-NBA 1st Team in both years btw.
I think you're really stifling your conscience on this one bro. I admire you as a poster. You're usually spot on.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14406783]I didn't see Dr. J play so I can't really say he was or wasn't in his physical prime. [B]But his physical attributes are irrelevant to the conversation[/B]; it's what how produced that really matters.
The fact that he was so high in the MVP voting, All-NBA 1st Team, top 5 in scoring, and top 5 in advanced metrics (top 5 in most categories), tells us that he was absolutely not out of his prime. I don't believe this is debatable. I mean, he led that team to the ECF and they also won 58 games.
Was he in his prime in 1981? If not, then why? Compare 1981 to 1982.
1981: 24.6/8.0/4.4/2.1/1.8 with 3.2 TOs on 52/22/79
1982: 24.4/6.9/3.9/2.2/1.7 with 2.6 TOs on 54/27/76
How about the playoffs?
1981: 22.9/7.1/3.4/1.4/2.6 with 3.4 TOs on 48/0/76
1982: 22.0/7.4/4.7/1.8/1.8 with 3.2 TOs on 52/17/75
The numbers are almost identical. And Dr. J was 31 in 1982, not 33. So was Dr. J also not in his prime in 1981? He finished All-NBA 1st Team in both years btw.
I think you're really stifling your conscience on this one bro. I admire you as a poster. You're usually spot on.[/QUOTE]
That isn't true, and "production" would be a reason why. We're also talking about 83 Philly. When Malone signed and J was 33. Doc's playoff numbers were 18/8/4 on 45%. Pretty good for a #2, but seeing what he was in the ABA and past NBA years, those numbers are pedestrian. All it takes is one year for a dropoff. Most here consider 18 LeBron part of his "prime" but not 19. Kobe in 2010, but not 2011. Hakeem in 96, but not 97. And so forth.
I also like you as a poster, but here, I think you jumped the shark. :confusedshrug: That's fine though. We can agree to disagree.
[QUOTE=MadDog;14406805]That isn't true, and "production" would be a reason why. We're also talking about 83 Philly. When Malone signed and J was 33. Doc's playoff numbers were 18/8/4 on 45%. Pretty good for a #2, but seeing what he was in the ABA and past NBA years, those numbers are pedestrian. All it takes is one year for a dropoff. Most here consider 18 LeBron part of his "prime" but not 19. Kobe in 2010, but not 2011. Hakeem in 96, but not 97. And so forth.
I also like you as a poster, but here, I think you jumped the shark. :confusedshrug: That's fine though. We can agree to disagree.[/QUOTE]
Then we're discussing two different things. As I always mention with these conversations concerning superteams, what matters is the formation, not the aftermath.
At the time, the formation certainly was a super-team - as in - the day the deal was signed, sealed, and delivered. What happened in the playoffs doesn't negate that, anymore than Bosh's drop off in numbers, or Love, or Allen, or KG, etc.
Besides, his regular season performance validates it, and the team had one of the greatest seasons in NBA history, and were perhaps the greatest team of all-time.
But yea, prior to the commencement of the '83 season, it absolutely was a super-team, which is what counts. The same with the Celtics of 2007-08, the Heat in 2010-11, the Cavs in 2014-15, etc.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14407301]Then we're discussing two different things. As I always mention with these conversations concerning superteams, what matters is the formation, not the aftermath.
At the time, the formation certainly was a super-team - as in - the day the deal was signed, sealed, and delivered. What happened in the playoffs doesn't negate that, anymore than Bosh's drop off in numbers, or Love, or Allen, or KG, etc.
Besides, his regular season performance validates it, and the team had one of the greatest seasons in NBA history, and were perhaps the greatest team of all-time.
But yea, prior to the commencement of the '83 season, it absolutely was a super-team, which is what counts. The same with the Celtics of 2007-08, the Heat in 2010-11, the Cavs in 2014-15, etc.[/QUOTE]
We mostly agree. I actually called Philly stacked in my initial post. Also acknowledge them as GOAT-tier and a superteam. J's best years were behind him though. His production in the playoffs kinda proves that.
[QUOTE=MadDog;14407383]We mostly agree. I actually called Philly stacked in my initial post. Also acknowledge them as GOAT-tier and a superteam. J's best years were behind him though. His production in the playoffs kinda proves that.[/QUOTE]
Refusing to admit you were wrong still yikes.
[QUOTE=RRR3;14407384]Refusing to admit you were wrong still yikes.[/QUOTE]
Hoops and I mostly agree. You're PISSED I shit on your argument, and you had zero rebuttal. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=MadDog;14407385]Hoops and I mostly agree. You're PISSED I shit on your argument, and you had zero rebuttal. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
I annihilated you in this thread lmao. Kind of what happens when one guys uses facts and the other guy sobs about how much he hates LeBron.
[QUOTE=RRR3;14406592]He doesn’t know this. All he knows is he hates LeBron for challenging MJ.[/QUOTE]
Lebron hasn't challenged MJ - he won't even reach Kobe in rings.. Karma always works it out - Kobe had less than MJ and Lebron will have less than Kobe
[QUOTE=3ba11;14407408]Lebron hasn't challenged MJ - he won't even reach Kobe in rings.. Karma always works it out - Kobe had less than MJ and Lebron will have less than Kobe[/QUOTE]
MJ had less than Russell and LeBron keeps you up at night. Kobe’s 2002 ring doesn’t count anyways, confirmed as being rigged. Refs went to jail over that.
[QUOTE=RRR3;14407411]MJ had less than Russell and LeBron keeps you up at night. Kobe’s 2002 ring doesn’t count anyways, confirmed as being rigged. Refs went to jail over that.[/QUOTE]
We're talking 3-pointer basketball, when only dominant offensive players are MVP-caliber (42 of 42 MVP's since 1980).. 2-pointer basketball is a different sport with no spacing, so a 1-way defender like Russell can be MVP-caliber
[QUOTE=3ba11;14407416]We're talking 3-pointer basketball, when only dominant offensive players are MVP-caliber (42 of 42 MVP's since 1980).. 2-pointer basketball is a different sport with no spacing, so a 1-way defender like Russell can be MVP-caliber[/QUOTE]
Goalpost moving.
It would be viewed like if Joel Embiid's contract is expired and he decided to join the Clippers, forming a big 3 with Kawhi and PG.
[QUOTE=jlip;14406672]It's amazing how obsessed people are with Lebron. I originally made this thread the day after KD had signed with GSW. It was his move that precipitated this thread, not Lebron.[/QUOTE]
At this point it's not a matter of if a thread will derail into a Bron thread, but a matter of when.
Only won 1 NBA Title. Lmao
He would be praised for it. Like when Legoat fans praised legoat for quitting on his #1 seed and hopping over to Wades team to lrn2win
[QUOTE=MadDog;14407383]We mostly agree. I actually called Philly stacked in my initial post. Also acknowledge them as GOAT-tier and a superteam. J's best years were behind him though. His production in the playoffs kinda proves that.[/QUOTE]
Oh, then we're basically debating for nothing, lol.
[QUOTE=jlip;14406672]It's amazing how obsessed people are with Lebron. I originally made this thread the day after KD had signed with GSW. It was his move that precipitated this thread, not Lebron.[/QUOTE]
Your question in the title is a little unclear. How is Moses' move back then viewed today or how would Moses be viewed if in a similar situation today he did the same move?
The answer to the former is no one cares; it's ancient history. The answer to the latter would depend on who Malone would have joined.
[QUOTE=Stephonit;14407605]Your question in the title is a little unclear. How is Moses' move back then viewed today or how would Moses be viewed if in a similar situation today he did the same move?
The answer to the former is no one cares; it's ancient history. The answer to the latter would depend on who Malone would have joined.[/QUOTE]
The question is, how the same exact move made in 1982 would be viewed if it was made in 2021 with the identical context and circumstances.
Moses never gets shit for this. The hypocrisy among Bron haters.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14888208]Moses never gets shit for this. The hypocrisy among Bron haters.[/QUOTE]
shit for getting traded to a good team and dominating the league?
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14888214]shit for getting traded to a good team and dominating the league?[/QUOTE]
Trade you say?
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/1982/09/03/sports/76ers-sign-malone-to-13-million-offer.html[/url]
Moses Malone, the most valuable player in the National Basketball Association last season, signed a reported $13 million offer sheet today to play with the Philadelphia 76ers.
Malone, who is 28 years old, became a free agent at the end of last season. The Houston Rockets, for whom the 6-foot-10-inch center played for six years, have 15 days from receipt of a copy of the offer sheet to match it.
The offer was reported to be for six years but neither Harold Katz, the Philadelphia owner, nor Lee Fentress, Malone's attorney, would confirm this figure or the total worth of the proposed contract. But Katz, moving boldly to fill a vacancy created when his club traded Darryl Dawkins to the Nets last week, said the contract would be ''by far the best and biggest'' in N.B.A. history.
Katz said he was confident that the new ownership of the Rockets, a group headed by the Houston businessman Charles Thomas, would be unable or unwilling to match the deal he proposes. 'Facing Major Decision'
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14888208]Moses never gets shit for this. The hypocrisy among Bron haters.[/QUOTE]
It's outrageous!
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14888216]Trade you say?
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/1982/09/03/sports/76ers-sign-malone-to-13-million-offer.html[/url]
Moses Malone, the most valuable player in the National Basketball Association last season, signed a reported $13 million offer sheet today to play with the Philadelphia 76ers.
Malone, who is 28 years old, became a free agent at the end of last season. The Houston Rockets, for whom the 6-foot-10-inch center played for six years, have 15 days from receipt of a copy of the offer sheet to match it.
The offer was reported to be for six years but neither Harold Katz, the Philadelphia owner, nor Lee Fentress, Malone's attorney, would confirm this figure or the total worth of the proposed contract. But Katz, moving boldly to fill a vacancy created when his club traded Darryl Dawkins to the Nets last week, said the contract would be ''by far the best and biggest'' in N.B.A. history.
Katz said he was confident that the new ownership of the Rockets, a group headed by the Houston businessman Charles Thomas, would be unable or unwilling to match the deal he proposes. 'Facing Major Decision'[/QUOTE]
Xiao is low key one of the stupidest posters on ISH.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14888208]Moses never gets shit for this. The hypocrisy among Bron haters.[/QUOTE]
Because lebron gets compared to michael jordan, not moses malone
maybe he should be though…you raise some good points
Moses was a restricted free agent so Houston had a chance to match the offer. They didn't and then made an arrangement with Philly that they will sign and trade him for Caldwell Jones and a 1st round pick that became Rodney McCray. Caldwell was actually a very good defensive center.
[QUOTE=dankok8;14888358]Moses was a restricted free agent so Houston had a chance to match the offer. They didn't and then made an arrangement with Philly that they will sign and trade him for Caldwell Jones and a 1st round pick that became Rodney McCray. Caldwell was actually a very good defensive center.[/QUOTE]
McCray was good early on in his career too
It would be respected and viewed positively....people forget just how many All-NBA guys went to new teams post merger. We should respect Moses and Tiny because they led teams to titles.
1977 - Frazier to Cavs
1978 - Archibald to Celtics Barry to Rockets, McGinnis to Nuggets
1979 - Walton to Clippers, McAdoo to Pistons
1980 - Maravich to Celtics, Westphal to Sonics
1981 - Hayes to Rockets
1982 - Thompson to Sonics, Cowens to Bucks
[QUOTE=John8204;14888461]It would be respected and viewed positively....people forget just how many All-NBA guys went to new teams post merger. We should respect Moses and Tiny because they led teams to titles.
1977 - Frazier to Cavs
1978 - Archibald to Celtics Barry to Rockets, McGinnis to Nuggets
1979 - Walton to Clippers, McAdoo to Pistons
1980 - Maravich to Celtics, Westphal to Sonics
1981 - Hayes to Rockets
1982 - Thompson to Sonics, Cowens to Bucks[/QUOTE]
most of those guys were past their prime or almost done. Moses was at the top of his game
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14888464]most of those guys were past their prime or almost done. Moses was at the top of his game[/QUOTE]
Before that you had Kareem,Maravich, Dr. J, and Rick Barry all leaving in their primes. So it wasn't socialially stigmatized. The 80's was when it became the norm to hold onto your franchise player for 80-90% of their years.
[QUOTE=John8204;14888536]Before that you had Kareem,Maravich, Dr. J, and Rick Barry all leaving in their primes. So it wasn't socialially stigmatized. The 80's was when it became the norm to hold onto your franchise player for 80-90% of their years.[/QUOTE]
they weren't leaving in free agency to join their buddies on a banana boat though. Owners certainly sold guys
Moses was a restricted FA. Houston could have kept him and kept him from leaving, all they had to do was match Philly's offer. Instead, they agreed to a sign and trade. Cleveland had no say so in "The Decision."