Well if it’s a rep award, Lebron James reputation for defense is clearly far and away worse than Michaels.
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Well if it’s a rep award, Lebron James reputation for defense is clearly far and away worse than Michaels.
[QUOTE=Dengness9;14507420]Well if it’s a rep award, Lebron James reputation for defense is clearly far and away worse than Michaels.[/QUOTE]
lebron was 4th in nba.com's dpoy ladder before getting injured last season. how stupid do you feel?
Lebron James greatest play ever was a potential finals saving block, Michael Jordans best play was stripping the other teams best player, then also scoring the game winner, he didn’t need someone else to finish the job. You think Lebron wanted to take the last shot against GS? He never even considered it. Thank god he didn’t bc he would’ve choked and Cavs would’ve never won a title behind Kyrie’s confidence to take a series deciding shot
[QUOTE=Johnny32;14507339]it's funny how they try to pretend 96-98 jordan wasn't an inefficient chucker on one end who has hidden on defense on the other end. unfortunately for them those of us who watched him (nba lg pass on primestar 96-98) know better.[/QUOTE]
He wasn't inefficient. Jordan shot 49% in the regular-season and 46% in the playoffs while averaging 30 points. Jordan also made all-defense and led the league in impact metrics. Grab a clue and stop making shit up.
oh and speaking of pip's defense in 98.
[I]But if [B]Pippen's defensive performance[/B] in Game 3 didn't convince you that he's worthy of being named [B]MVP of the Finals[/B], then what he did on both ends of the court in the Bulls' 86-82 Game 4 victory should have clinched the vote.
Pippen impressed Jerry Sloan.
"He was sensational," said the Jazz's coach.
"He did a terrific job getting in the open court, pulling up and taking the 3-point shots, and got in a great rhythm," Sloan said. "We had a difficult time trying to guard him."
And that was just half the court.
[B]"Defensively, he puts tremendous pressure on you. . . . He caused us a lot of problems, I think everybody is aware of that. We're aware of it," Sloan said. "We have trouble with him every time we play. And I don't know what more you can say. You can put him on any player on the floor, and he's going to do a terrific job defensively."[/B]
That versatility amazes ESPN basketball expert Dr. Jack Ramsay, a longtime coach in the NBA. [B]Ramsay ranks Pippen among the outstanding defenders in the history of the game.[/B] Right there with K.C. Jones, Mel Hutchins, Satch Sanders and so on.
[B]"I can't conjure up anybody who does all the things that Pippen does as a defender. I mean, he can defend anybody," Ramsay said. "We've seen him defend point guards and take them out of their game, two guards and deny them a shot, small forwards, big forwards. The only player that I haven't seen him defend well is the opposing center. I think he'd have a hard time with Shaq."[/B]
[B]"Scottie has done a lot in terms of relieving some of the pressure off of me," said Jordan.[/B] "[B]Defensively, he's the key component for us.[/B] He's a recovery. And we give him the authority to do whatever he wants on the defensive end . . . He can disrupt anybody's offense, really. And tonight was a great example of that."[/I]
[url]https://www.deseret.com/1998/6/11/19385041/what-about-pippen-for-nba-finals-mvp[/url]
LeREKT.
Holy shit, an in season list from nba.com?! Sounds like gospel! Did he make an all defensive team last year? Oh wait, he didn’t even receive a vote. That’s right. Try harder, be less stupid
"Scottie has done a lot in terms of relieving some of the pressure off of me," said Jordan.
"Defensively, he's the key component for us."
i wonder what mj meant by this. oh wait i think i know. scottie allows me to hide on defense and focus only on offense. kind of like what i've been saying. shocker.
Michael Jordan dragged the Bulls and Scottie through the entire 98 season. Rodman was more important than Pip at that point. Scotties body was failing him big time. Scottie winning finals mvp over MJ who stripped Malone then hit the finals winner? Laughable but keep trying bud!
[QUOTE=Dengness9;14507437]Michael Jordan dragged the Bulls and Scottie through the entire 98 season. Rodman was more important than Pip at that point. Scotties body was failing him big time. Scottie winning finals mvp over MJ who stripped Malone then hit the finals winner? Laughable but keep trying bud![/QUOTE]
the jazz coach disagrees with your uneducated opinion.
more fun facts from the 98 finals: only steve kerr had a worse defensive rating than mj in the 98 finals.
hurrr, 4th in dpoy voting doe, durrr
let's check out the defensive ratings of duh bulls starters in the 96-98 finals. lower is better.
[B]96[/B]
pippen - 103
rodman - 104
harper - 106
mj/longley -107
[B]97[/B]
pippen - 101
rodman - 101
harper - 103
mj/longley - 105
[B]98[/B]
longley - 92
harper - 93
pippen - 97
mj/kukoc - 100 (only kerr had a worse drtg on the entire roster)
summary: mj was tied with longley twice and kukoc once as the worst defensive starter in the 96, 97 and 98 finals.
hurrr, but duh voting results, durrr.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14507397]At this same point in the season, 2002 Jordan was [I]winning[/I] with the Wizards (4 seed) and 1 of 3 players getting 25/5/5 (Kobe/Tmac/MJ), while also having numerous 40/50 point games and game-winners over Lebron's bully (Marion).
Otoh, Lebron is a year younger but basically lottery or 1st Round in the West without AD, with the most empty-stat style of all-time (6'9" westbricking)[/QUOTE]
You can cherry pick specific time frames, it doesn't help the FULL reality that Wizards MJ was an embarrassment for the GOAT. He should've kept his last shot as the game winner in his last finals.
[QUOTE=Johnny32;14507448]let's check out the defensive ratings of duh bulls starters in the 96-98 finals. lower is better.
[B]96[/B]
pippen - 103
rodman - 104
harper - 106
mj/longley -107
[B]97[/B]
pippen - 101
rodman - 101
harper - 103
mj/longley - 105
[B]98[/B]
longley - 92
harper - 93
pippen - 97
mj/kukoc - 100 (only kerr had a worse drtg on the entire roster)
summary: mj was tied with longley twice and kukoc once as the worst defensive starter in the 96, 97 and 98 finals.
hurrr, but duh voting results, durrr.[/QUOTE]
SHUT IT DOWN :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Johnny32;14507448]let's check out the defensive ratings of duh bulls starters in the 96-98 finals. lower is better.
[B]96[/B]
pippen - 103
rodman - 104
harper - 106
mj/longley -107
[B]97[/B]
pippen - 101
rodman - 101
harper - 103
mj/longley - 105
[B]98[/B]
longley - 92
harper - 93
pippen - 97
mj/kukoc - 100 (only kerr had a worse drtg on the entire roster)
summary: mj was tied with longley twice and kukoc once as the worst defensive starter in the 96, 97 and 98 finals.
hurrr, but duh voting results, durrr.[/QUOTE]
Interesting.
Maybe if he had prime Anthony Davis and Westbrook it would have helped MJ
Current Anthony Edwards is a much better player than Wizards Jordan.
[QUOTE=TheGoatest;14507639]Current Anthony Edwards is a much better player than Wizards Jordan.[/QUOTE]
Current Carlos Arroyo is better than Lebron remember he beat him in the Olympics.
[QUOTE=Dengness9;14507437][B]Michael Jordan dragged the Bulls [/B]and Scottie through the entire 98 season. Rodman was more important than Pip at that point. Scotties body was failing him big time. Scottie winning finals mvp over MJ who stripped Malone then hit the finals winner? Laughable but keep trying bud![/QUOTE]
LOL good one
Jordan's team was tailor made for him, it failed in Washington and in the 80's because you need specific players for Jordan's game to work. Everyone always says Scottie and Rodman but it was Kukoc, Harper, and Kerr who were all selfless players that allowed for Jordan to be successful.
[QUOTE=Baller789;14507239]On defense?[/QUOTE]
Anyone?
[QUOTE=Johnny32;14507448]let's check out the defensive ratings of duh bulls starters in the 96-98 finals. lower is better.
[B]96[/B]
pippen - 103
rodman - 104
harper - 106
mj/longley -107
[B]97[/B]
pippen - 101
rodman - 101
harper - 103
mj/longley - 105
[B]98[/B]
longley - 92
harper - 93
pippen - 97
mj/kukoc - 100 (only kerr had a worse drtg on the entire roster)
summary: mj was tied with longley twice and kukoc once as the worst defensive starter in the 96, 97 and 98 finals.
hurrr, but duh voting results, durrr.[/QUOTE]
speaking of defense.
[QUOTE=Johnny32;14507842]speaking of defense.[/QUOTE]
Drtg? :roll:
[QUOTE=Baller789;14507844]i'm desperate as fk[/QUOTE]
yeah it's obvious as fk.
[QUOTE=HylianNightmare;14507478]Maybe if he had prime Anthony Davis and Westbrook it would have helped MJ[/QUOTE]
Westbrook isn’t helping. Typical Hylianretard
[QUOTE=HylianNightmare;14507478]Maybe if he had prime Anthony Davis and Westbrook it would have helped MJ[/QUOTE]
:roll:
[QUOTE=John8204;14507821]LOL good one
Jordan's team was tailor made for him, it failed in Washington and in the 80's because you need specific players for Jordan's game to work. Everyone always says Scottie and Rodman but it was Kukoc, Harper, and Kerr who were all selfless players that allowed for Jordan to be successful.[/QUOTE]
You need a team to be successful.
No sh!t Sherlock.
:roll:
And oh dtrg? :roll:
[QUOTE=Johnny32;14507448]let's check out the defensive ratings of duh bulls starters in the 96-98 finals. lower is better.
[B]96[/B]
pippen - 103
rodman - 104
harper - 106
mj/longley -107
[B]97[/B]
pippen - 101
rodman - 101
harper - 103
mj/longley - 105
[B]98[/B]
longley - 92
harper - 93
pippen - 97
mj/kukoc - 100 (only kerr had a worse drtg on the entire roster)
summary: mj was tied with longley twice and kukoc once as the worst defensive starter in the 96, 97 and 98 finals.
hurrr, but duh voting results, durrr.[/QUOTE]
Wow, Longley and Harper stepped up their games SO MUCH in 1998.:eek:
Shouldve been co-DPOYs.:bowdown:
[QUOTE=000;14507881]Wow, Longley and Harper stepped up their games SO MUCH in 1998.:eek:
Shouldve been co-DPOYs.:bowdown:[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;US7VFL9cXTk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7VFL9cXTk&ab_channel=ABCNewsIn-depth[/video]
[QUOTE=Johnny32;14507890][video=youtube;US7VFL9cXTk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7VFL9cXTk&ab_channel=ABCNewsIn-depth[/video][/QUOTE]
Poor guy. One of the forgotten stars of the 90s:(
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14507393]Obviously Lebron is better than Wizards Jordan, but that version of Jordan was a total joke. He should've never come back, that was embarrassing.[/QUOTE]
I agree
[QUOTE=Lebron23;14482063]And it's not even close. MJ failed to led the Wizards in the playoffs despite playing with Richard Hamilton and the Kevin Love of his era Christian Laettner in 2001-02, Jerry Stackhouse and Larry Hughes in 2002-03.[/QUOTE]
Wizards also were 14th in ratings to win title in 2002 and 2003 while the Lakers were 2nd this year
[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2002_preseason_odds.html[/url]
Lakers were 4th in 2019 and didn't even make the playoffs [url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019_preseason_odds.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Johnny32;14507890][video=youtube;US7VFL9cXTk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7VFL9cXTk&ab_channel=ABCNewsIn-depth[/video][/QUOTE]
Holy fk thought that was Sam Hyde.
[QUOTE=000;14507934]Poor guy. One of the forgotten stars of the 90s:([/QUOTE]
He was never a star lol.
He was a pretty good role player though.
No doubt Lebron's better, but if we look at Jordan's first year with the Wizards in a vacuum it was pretty impressive. The Wizards started with a completely ass record as Jordan had to play himself back into shape, then got the Wizards coming back to a potential playoff berth with: baby rip hamilton shooting 41%, jahidi white, baby kwame brown, and popeye jones. All while averaging 25 ppg in the toughest defensive climate in NBA history, until he finally was hurt enough to be sidelined. Wizards Jordan gets shit on a lot because it's Michael Jordan, but he was still a franchise player. He'd be even better in the current league with the modern load management culture and less physicality. Imagine MJ in a league where the biggest guy on the court on a nightly basis is about Draymond Green's size, and defenses are designed to give up the mid range.
Funny fact. Pre injury 2002 jordan had his team #2 in the east while his right hand man missed alot games
Lebron has led hls team to..... #9? Lol
Empty stats are overrated
[QUOTE=2much_knowledge;14529510]Funny fact. Pre injury 2002 jordan had his team #2 in the east while his right hand man missed alot games
Lebron has led hls team to..... #9? Lol
Empty stats are overrated[/QUOTE]
and Jordan still missed the playoffs in 2002 despite playing 60 games
[QUOTE=Lebron23;14529515]and Jordan still missed the playoffs in 2002 despite playing 60 games[/QUOTE]
Go to youtube. Search the FREE documentary. Jordan: the wizard years and skip it to the last 10 - 5 minutes with a black screen with white text
You might learn something there
[QUOTE=2much_knowledge;14529526]Go to youtube. Search the FREE documentary. Jordan: the wizard years and skip it to the last 10 - 5 minutes with a black screen with white text
You might learn something there[/QUOTE]
And he also played in the weakest era in eastern conference history were teams like the Sixers and Nets advanced in the NBA Finals.
[QUOTE=2much_knowledge;14529510]Funny fact. Pre injury 2002 jordan had his team #2 in the east while his right hand man missed alot games
Lebron has led hls team to..... #9? Lol
Empty stats are overrated[/QUOTE]
This is true too. And plays with way, way superior talent. I mean Anthony Davis is the 3rd best player of all time according to PER. Trailing only LeBron, and the GOAT, Jordan.
Lebron is so much better it's not even close. Jordan also missed the playoffs in the Leastern Conference.
it's crazy how much better legoat is than mj and kobe at similar ages.
lebron at 37 - [B]29 ppg on 61 ts%[/B], [B]8 rpg, 6 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.0 bpg[/B]
jordone at 38 - 23 ppg on 47 ts%, 6 rpg, 5 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.4 bpg
chuckobe at 37 - 18 ppg on 47 ts%, 4 rpg, 3 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.2 bpg