Bradly Beal, 50 mil to score 9 points in 31 mins in an elim game (Kblaze get in here

[QUOTE=Charlie Sheen;14905512]Beal is a combo of the cost from Kawhi's money and PG's pick swaps. It was not a good trade but i am not sure if this is a discussion about the trade or just how much money beal makes:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

we are just talking contracts and how much of the team’s salary cap does a player receive, and if it is good value or not

(kblaze says bradly beal’s contract isn’t bad)

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14905513]Actually I was Talking about Hakeem. Because he’s probably 60. In his case, age would be the reason not to pay. In Leonard’s case the unfortunate reality that he can’t maintain his body well enough to be available in the playoffs is the reason. If I have to choose between a guy, I wish would play better and the guy who doesn’t play for the same money? The kind of makes itself. And Leonard does it the worst way possible. If he didn’t play at all, they could write off the deal and not have to pay the money. But he plays just enough to give you hope then not be available when you need it.

It sucks because he obviously deserved it as a basketball player skill set wise. But a player is his ability plus his body. Missing the body?

I hope he turns it around and kills it for a few years, but at this point?

Anything he gives you is extra. His team is fighting for its life without him. And it’s happened over and over and over and over. I’m not blaming him, but goddamn.[/QUOTE]


It kinda sounds like you are saying Leonard’s contract isn’t worth it and a bad contract?

[QUOTE=Charlie Sheen;14905512]Beal is a combo of the cost from Kawhi's money and PG's pick swaps. It was not a good trade but i am not sure if this is a discussion about the trade or just how much money beal makes:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

originally the discussion was once the wizards paid him they would be stuck with his albatross contract forever because nobody would take it. And then they talked to each other and decided to move him and it took about 45 minutes because there is no such thing as an unmovable deal anymore. But fans keep thinking there is.

The wizards gave him the contract Only had to pay a fraction of it and traded him for picks and have such little salary on the books going forward theyre gonna have to sign somebody to stay off the salary floor.

It did no tangible harm, which was the entire original discussion that he wants to keep having because he doesn’t get sick of hearing the same thing. He’s going to keep trying to get me to talk to him about it for a few more years while somehow also suggesting I won’t let it go. It’s a weird dynamic

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14905515]we are just talking contracts and how much of the team’s salary cap does a player receive, and if it is good value or not

(kblaze says bradly beal’s contract isn’t bad)[/QUOTE]

The killer part was the trade because that was the last move phoenix is going to be able to make to improve this team. The contract by itself was not crippling.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14905515]we are just talking contracts and how much of the team’s salary cap does a player receive, and if it is good value or not

(kblaze says bradly beal’s contract isn’t bad)




It kinda sounds like you are saying Leonard’s contract isn’t worth it and a bad contract?[/QUOTE]

If he doesn’t play basketball while being paid it. And even then it won’t be what you hysterical types.l suggest such things are though. In a world you can do a little cap magic and fit three of them and good role players on one team? It’s literally impossible to pay anybody enough that it destroys your team. And somehow you could pay somebody enough(which would probably be in the 90 million range) The CBA no longer allows you to pay them long enough for it to be a long-term issue.

You’re in this topic complaining about the “Long term” Situation of a team that will be under the salary in two years. The current cap that is. They will be waaaaaay under the expanding one if they choose.

This is an All in Owner. A meddlesome one which probably isn’t for the best, but I would take him over these cheap owners every time.

Lot better to be the Suns than the Hornets. Give me a guy who writes the check and doesn’t care.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14905516]originally the discussion was once the wizards paid him they would be stuck with his albatross contract forever because nobody would take it. And then they talked to each other and decided to move him and it took about 45 minutes because there is no such thing as an unmovable deal anymore. But fans keep thinking there is.

The wizards gave him the contract Only had to pay a fraction of it and traded him for picks and have such little salary on the books going forward theyre gonna have to sign somebody to stay off the salary floor.

It did no tangible harm, which was the entire original discussion that he wants to keep having because he doesn’t get sick of hearing the same thing. He’s going to keep trying to get me to talk to him about it for a few more years while somehow also suggesting I won’t let it go. It’s a weird dynamic[/QUOTE]

To be honest I just find it funny when you are being such a goof that can’t admit that it’s a burden to any team to have Bradly Beal on that contract. (Any team that’s trying to win at least)

And to be honest, I’m still not entirely out on Leonard. But I tend to have faith in people for too long. I thought Kobe was going to be good again All the way to like the All-Star break of his final season. If he can get his knee together for a couple months at the right time, maybe something will prove itself worth it.

You just hate to see it.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14905523]If he doesn’t play basketball while being paid it. And even then it won’t be what you hysterical types.l suggest such things are though. In a world you can do a little cap magic and fit three of them and good role players on one team? It’s literally impossible to pay anybody enough that it destroys your team. And somehow you could pay somebody enough(which would probably be in the 90 million range) The CBA no longer allows you to pay them long enough for it to be a long-term issue.

You’re in this topic complaining about the “Long term” Situation of a team that will be under the salary in two years. The current cap that is. They will be waaaaaay under the expanding one if they choose.

This is an All in Owner. A meddlesome one which probably isn’t for the best, but I would take him over these cheap owners every time.

Lot better to be the Suns than the Hornets. Give me a guy who writes the check and doesn’t care.[/QUOTE]

Writing the checks and not carrying is not how you build a good team. I think the Suns have just shown us that. You need to be willing to write the checks yet still be intelligent with how you use your money. That’s what winning organizations do. Like I said earlier in the thread, if you try to say F*** the salary cap, the salary cap will F*** you.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14905526]And to be honest, I’m still not entirely out on Leonard. But I tend to have faith in people for too long. I thought Kobe was going to be good again All the way to like the All-Star break of his final season. If he can get his knee together for a couple months at the right time, maybe something will prove itself worth it.

You just hate to see it.[/QUOTE]


I’ve said quite a few times that Leonard’s chronic health issues have been one of the worst things for the game of basketball. There was a time he was my favorite non warriors player.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14905525]To be honest I just find it funny when you are being such a goof that can’t admit that it’s a burden to any team to have Bradly Beal on that contract. (Any team that’s trying to win at least)[/QUOTE]

What I find funny is you going from the extreme of it being an absolutely unmovable albatross that is the worst contract in history to talking about it being a burden for team trying to win a championship. The Tone change and realization that you had no idea what you were talking about to begin with is unusual in somebody insisting on continuing to bring up a discussion that is hundreds of post already.

You’ve already given up like 70% of what you were originally insisting but you’re going to want to keep talking about it till the end you’re just like “I know there’s 77 of them but that one was…a little worse than ideal”.

You don’t even hear your stance softening, but I do.

These contracts do not mean shit. They mean less every day. just wait until you realize at the end of his contract, he might be making less money than he made at the start of it relative to the cap. He’s gonna have the smallest cap hit when he has the biggest actual number if a couple things fall into place but by then we will have moved on to you being outraged Walker Kessler or someone gets 304 million and you won’t have learned a thing.

The whole Max and Supermax contract thing is nothing but a smoke screen designed by the owners negotiators to con the simple minded into thinking that they’re doing something that hurts them.

The worst contract you can think of is a calculated deal to ensure you never have to pay Steph Curry what he would truly be worth in an open market. They sat down and even change the rules on awards, which will eliminate some all NBA players, but make new ones who otherwise wouldn’t have made it get Supermax Eligible deals for over 300 million like Jalen Brown and both fans and players will marvel while the owners care about nothing but the revenue split.

There is literally nobody who even has the potential to make enough money that it will keep their team from being able to have a talented roster. The system does not allow it. But you’re doing the bidding of cheap owners by pushing the idea that they can.

that way, the All-Star, who was paid more than fans think gets the attention instead of the owner who could give the order to assemble a super team anyway and pull it off if he chose to spend his billions that way.

these owners are master manipulators, and frankly fans are ****ing stupid. Almost as bad as the players who go into the CBA giving up financial trade off for irrelevant shit like having approval over the post game buffet menu.

The owners are billionaires with billionaire level accountants and cap experts that get paid like low level CEOs.

A lot of the teams that suck forever just aren’t worried about winning. But they have a convenient scapegoat.

[QUOTE]
Writing the checks and not carrying is not how you build a good team. I think the Suns have just shown us that. You need to be willing to write the checks yet still be intelligent with how you use your money. That’s what winning organizations do. Like I said earlier in the thread, if you try to say F*** the salary cap, the salary cap will F*** you.

[/QUOTE]

The suns won 50 games while their best players miss what? How many games did they even play together? Was it even 30? They obviously did build a capable team. Just not a healthy one. And got more hurt in the playoffs.

Can’t account for that. As a bulls fan? I will swap rosters in a second. Worst case we start over in two years. It isn’t some devastated franchise. It’s a team. That’s going to be good again next year, but probably not good enough. How many teams are good enough? Three?

And Owner like theirs can put you in the conversation off sheer willpower.

you can’t necessarily spend yourself to greatness, but you can spend yourself to being worth talking about. In a league where teams like the suns have already gone 50 years without winning being in the mix is all you can realistically expect.


you have to be a special kind of incompetent to be willing to pay the tax and still stay bad forever.

They’ll probably tear down in a couple years to get out of being repeaters, then go right back for it. We need more teams like that not less.

Beal is dog shit. He never deserved that contract. I watched him play on the Wizards and before that as well and he never impressed me. He has his moments when hell go off, but he's a turnstile on defense, can't pass/play make, and is a terrible team player.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14905541]What I find funny is you going from the extreme of it being an absolutely unmovable albatross that is the worst contract in history to talking about it being a burden for team trying to win a championship. The Tone change and realization that you had no idea what you were talking about to begin with is unusual in somebody insisting on continuing to bring up a discussion that is hundreds of post already.

You’ve already given up like 70% of what you were originally insisting but you’re going to want to keep talking about it till the end you’re just like “I know there’s 77 of them but that one was…a little worse than ideal”.

You don’t even hear your stance softening, but I do.

These contracts do not mean shit. They mean less every day. just wait until you realize at the end of his contract, he might be making less money than he made at the start of it relative to the cap. He’s gonna have the smallest cap hit when he has the biggest actual number if a couple things fall into place but by then we will have moved on to you being outraged Walker Kessler or someone gets 304 million and you won’t have learned a thing.

The whole Max and Supermax contract thing is nothing but a smoke screen designed by the owners negotiators to con the simple minded into thinking that they’re doing something that hurts them.

The worst contract you can think of is a calculated deal to ensure you never have to pay Steph Curry what he would truly be worth in an open market. They sat down and even change the rules on awards, which will eliminate some all NBA players, but make new ones who otherwise wouldn’t have made it get Supermax Eligible deals for over 300 million like Jalen Brown and both fans and players will marvel while the owners care about nothing but the revenue split.

There is literally nobody who even has the potential to make enough money that it will keep their team from being able to have a talented roster. The system does not allow it. But you’re doing the bidding of cheap owners by pushing the idea that they can.

that way, the All-Star, who was paid more than fans think gets the attention instead of the owner who could give the order to assemble a super team anyway and pull it off if he chose to spend his billions that way.

these owners are master manipulators, and frankly fans are ****ing stupid. Almost as bad as the players who go into the CBA giving up financial trade off for irrelevant shit like having approval over the post game buffet menu.

The owners are billionaires with billionaire level accountants and cap experts that get paid like low level CEOs.

A lot of the teams that suck forever just aren’t worried about winning. But they have a convenient scapegoat.[/QUOTE]

Not really. I said it was a stupid signing and should been unmovable, and it should be until Mat Ishbia went full retard, and look where that move landed him.

Your original reasoning for it not being a bad contract we’re “there have been worse contracts inked in the past”. Which is not a real reason.

Beal will be a Angel of Death wherever he goes on that contract, you don’t gotta like it, but it is what it is.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14905545]The suns won 50 games while their best players miss what? How many games did they even play together? Was it even 30? They obviously did build a capable team. Just not a healthy one. And got more hurt in the playoffs.

Can’t account for that. As a bulls fan? I will swap rosters in a second. Worst case we start over in two years. It isn’t some devastated franchise. It’s a team. That’s going to be good again next year, but probably not good enough. How many teams are good enough? Three?

And Owner like theirs can put you in the conversation off sheer willpower.

you can’t necessarily spend yourself to greatness, but you can spend yourself to being worth talking about. In a league where teams like the suns have already gone 50 years without winning being in the mix is all you can realistically expect.


you have to be a special kind of incompetent to be willing to pay the tax and still stay bad forever.

They’ll probably tear down in a couple years to get out of being repeaters, then go right back for it. We need more teams like that not less.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Beal has had health problems for awhile now and is on the wrong side of 30. One of the reasons I said it’s an exceptionally bad contract.


The season was a total disaster, They went all in on Bradly Beal and got smoked. Their team obviously isn’t constructed right. They aren’t going anywhere anytime soon and don’t have very many options considering they are in the second apron and Beal still has a no trade clause and they gave up all their remaining picks for him.


I don’t know how there is any other interpretation for the Sun’s decisions and results other than a complete and total disaster

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14905558]Not really. I said it was a stupid signing and should been unmovable, and it should be until Mat Ishbia went full retard, and look where that move landed him.

Your original reasoning for it not being a bad contract we’re “there have been worse contracts inked in the past”. Which is not a real reason.

Beal will be a Angel of Death wherever he goes on that contract, you don’t gotta like it, but it is what it is.[/QUOTE]


it was unmovable until the very second they decided to move it at which point it was easily moved. And the terrible fate was being a six seed, losing in the first round while a bunch of teams Considering themselves contenders did the same already or are likely about to. And they’ll have to wait to two whole summers from now to have significant cap room. Unless they just decide to get some. Which would be fairly simple if KD is fed up.

You did with people on the Internet always do. Take issue with something so you massively exaggerate and start talking about worst ever when you have no historical perspective. And then when you’re giving historical perspective, you say history doesn’t matter as if you didn’t originally start talking about historical terms like it being one of the worst/best ever.

It’s just human nature and ignorance. I helped alleviate your ignorance on the subject to put it in proper context. I also told you they could move it, which was factually correct. I’ve been doing nothing but giving you the truth you don’t like as you consistently dilute your point and make up reasons reality didn’t match your Belief.

literally 100% of the time this forum gets upset and claim some contract will be an unmovable albatross the team holding it is able to move it easily or wants it where it is.

Ish is like 0/15 in “Oh my god! They’re stuck!” claims and just refuses to learn.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14905560]Yeah, Beal has had health problems for awhile now and is on the wrong side of 30. One of the reasons I said it’s an exceptionally bad contract.


The season was a total disaster, They went all in on Bradly Beal and got smoked. Their team obviously isn’t constructed right. They aren’t going anywhere anytime soon and don’t have very many options considering they are in the second apron and Beal still has a no trade clause and they gave up all their remaining picks for him.


I don’t know how there is any other interpretation for the Sun’s decisions and results other than a complete and total disaster[/QUOTE]

That’s like saying the heat went all in on Chris Bosh. You don’t go all in on your third guy. They went all in when they traded Bridges and 4 first rounders for KD.

to get Beal they swapped what…the remnants of Paul and several pick swaps. They didn’t have enough left for a giant package. But it got him to a team he wanted and got them their third guy.

You wanna call the season a disaster? It’s just showing a lack of perspective once again. My team has only been this good three or four years since Jordan left. How many times have the Hornets even won this many games? Ever? Maybe once in the early 90s?

They are a team worth talking about which like about three others went down sooner than they hoped. If you think they are a disaster because they’re gonna have to wait a year or two to have space you need to remember what the Warriors were for like 40 years.

Teams go decades not even being what the Suns are now. The nets have topped 49 wins once since Doctor J led them in the ABA. Almost 50 years ago.

They aren’t a disaster. They lost after a good season that wasn’t what it should have been due to injuries.

Absolutely not a big deal. I’m not sure this season is even subpar for any franchise. Has any team consistently been better than the suns are now?

Maybe the Spurs historically. Maybe.

But I know wild exaggeration that lacks all perspective is your thing on these matters.

Anyway feel free to try to bait me into starting this over next time. You got your extra hundred posts of repeated content on the subject you think I’m the one who won’t drop. Maybe you’ll get another hundred next time. Get it up around 600. I’m gonna go soft boil some eggs to marinate for ramen. Excuse me.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14905576]Anyway feel free to try to bait me into starting this over next time. You got your extra hundred posts of repeated content on the subject you think I’m the one who won’t drop. Maybe you’ll get another hundred next time. Get it up around 600. I’m gonna go soft boil some eggs to marinate for ramen. Excuse me.[/QUOTE]

Well you keep going back to this reasoning of “beal’s contract isn’t bad, there have been far worse”

“Suns aren’t in that bad of a position, at least they aren’t the worst team in the league!”

This is like saying to the police “Hey what’s the big problem? So what I beat the shit out of my girlfriend, at least I didn’t kill her!”

Kblaze, claiming the contract was easily moved is simply not true. If Beal didn't want to get traded he wouldn't have gotten traded. He has a no trade clause. He isn't going anywhere he doesn't want to go

More like a cop saying I killed my girlfriend and being annoyed that I’m pointing out she’s standing right over there living a perfectly normal life In better shape than a great deal of people around her.

And I forgot I needed Mirin. And I want real mirin for my teriyaki sauce, not corn syrup, which is what most American stores sell. I’m gonna have to get up and go to the Asian market. If there’s anything worse than getting up, it’s having to get back up. Thought I was home for the day.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14905580]Kblaze, claiming the contract was easily moved is simply not true. If Beal didn't want to get traded he wouldn't have gotten traded. He has a no trade clause. He isn't going anywhere he doesn't want to go[/QUOTE]





[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/vLPNK3y/IMG-8509.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14905577]Well you keep going back to this reasoning of “beal’s contract isn’t bad, there have been far worse”

“Suns aren’t in that bad of a position, at least they aren’t the worst team in the league!”

This is like saying to the police “Hey what’s the big problem? So what I beat the shit out of my girlfriend, at least I didn’t kill her!”[/QUOTE]

I think he is saying this version of the Suns is better than watching whatever they were going to be with Chris Paul. Beal is the girl you could have gotten with but you are waiting for the supermodel trade opportunity to walk into your life.

I am more on your side than his but he is not unreasonable here.

[QUOTE=Charlie Sheen;14905585]I think he is saying this version of the Suns is better than watching whatever they were going to be with Chris Paul. Beal is the girl you could have gotten with but you are waiting for the supermodel trade opportunity to walk into your life.

I am more on your side than his but he is not unreasonable here.[/QUOTE]

I see what you are saying but I don’t know about that.

Pretty sure Suns could have managed to not win one Playoff game even with Chris Paul.

If they never made the trade they would have 10 more draft picks that they didn’t waste in getting beal, CP3 on an expiring 30 mil contract that they could flip


Now they are in the same place success wise they were after the trade, except now they have 10 less draft picks and beal for multiple extra years at 50 mil with his no trade clause.


Patience is a virtue, sometimes the best move is no move.

The Suns blew it, there’s no two ways around it really.

You guys are still arguing this?

The Suns basically got Beal for free or at very little cost for a team trying to win now. Hard to knock the move given they have like a 3 year window at most. They took a chance and it hasn't worked yet...reasonable people can disagree about what the right move or moves would have been for the Suns.

But this "worst contract" and "unable to be traded" shit needs to stop...how on earth does this narrative still exist after Beal was just traded for positive value to the Suns less than a year ago?

The "Beal's contract was terrible for the Wizards crowd" really needs to just take the L and admit they were wrong.

Can't believe this shit still comes up. A player that stays with one team as long as Beal did and plays at his level is simply going to get within 10% of the contract he got no matter what. One can disagree with that, but that doesn't change reality. The whole league is setup to max or near max a player like Beal roughly 10 years into his career.

Make peace with it...you already should have...because the contracts are not stopping.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14905661]You guys are still arguing this?

The Suns basically got Beal for free or at very little cost for a team trying to win now. Hard to knock the move given they have like a 3 year window at most. They took a chance and it hasn't worked yet...reasonable people can disagree about what the right move or moves would have been for the Suns.

But this "worst contract" and "unable to be traded" shit needs to stop...how on earth does this narrative still exist after Beal was just [B]traded for positive value [/B]to the Suns less than a year ago?





[/QUOTE]


So which is it? Did the Suns "get him basically for free" or did the Wizards trade him for positive value?

When the Wizards signed Beal it was a win now move and failed, as we said it would because Beal isn't that good. The Suns acquired him in a win now move and that has failed badly. They took a huge step back which again was predictable when so much money is tied up with someone who isn't that.good.

The wizards had yet another losing season when they were trying to win and the Suns couldn't win one playoff game after taking the champs to 6 last year. Where Beal goes, disappointment follows, as we predicted.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14905666]So which is it? Did the Suns "get him basically for free" or did the Wizards trade him for positive value?

When the Wizards signed Beal it was a win now move and failed, as we said it would because Beal isn't that good. The Suns acquired him in a win now move and that has failed badly. They took a huge step back which again was predictable when so much money is tied up with someone who isn't that.good.

The wizards had yet another losing season when they were trying to win and the Suns couldn't win one playoff game after taking the champs to 6 last year. Where Beal goes, disappointment follows, as we predicted.[/QUOTE]

Again, I'm not going to argue semantics. The Wizards got rid of Beal for a bunch of picks and pick swaps for a team blowing it up. I think that is fair to call it positive value.

The Suns? They were trying to win now and lost and old Paul and Shamet for Beal...I think that is fair to call "basically free or at little cost" for a team only concerned with the next few seasons.

You predicted? No, what you predicted was that the Wizards wouldn't be able to move Beal at all...and you were dead wrong.

How good Beal actually is...is certainly debatable....perhaps I and Blaze over-rate him to some extent...again, I'm not really sure as how good Beal was / is...was never the debate. It was about the contract...and we were right...and you were wrong.

Nearly a year later...your camp just needs to take the L rather than going on and on.

Just like the crowd claiming the Gobert trade made no sense and was one of the dumbest ever. Bill Simmons and his buddy Rusillo went on and on about how stupid that was...now they are in love with this Wolves team.

Usually the hard line opinions that offer no room for conversation...are often the dumbest. Something for you to think about.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14905558]Not really. I said it was a stupid signing and should been unmovable, and it should be until Mat Ishbia went full retard, and look where that move landed him.

Your original reasoning for it not being a bad contract we’re “there have been worse contracts inked in the past”. Which is not a real reason.

Beal will be a Angel of Death wherever he goes on that contract, you don’t gotta like it, but it is what it is.[/QUOTE]

This is another way of saying "I was wrong"...the contract I claimed was impossible to move...actually got moved and got moved for absolutely no cost to the Wizards no matter how harsh any reasonable person could be.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14905672]Again, I'm not going to argue semantics. The Wizards got rid of Beal for a bunch of picks and pick swaps for a team blowing it up. I think that is fair to call it positive value.

The Suns? They were trying to win now and lost and old Paul and Shamet for Beal...I think that is fair to call "basically free or at little cost" for a team only concerned with the next few seasons.

You predicted? No, what you predicted was that the Wizards wouldn't be able to move Beal at all...and you were dead wrong.

How good Beal actually is...is certainly debatable....perhaps I and Blaze over-rate him to some extent...again, I'm not really sure as how good Beal was / is...was never the debate. It was about the contract...and we were right...and you were wrong.

Nearly a year later...your camp just needs to take the L rather than going on and on.

Just like the crowd claiming the Gobert trade made no sense and was one of the dumbest ever. Bill Simmons and his buddy Rusillo went on and on about how stupid that was...now they are in love with this Wolves team.

Usually the hard line opinions that offer no room for conversation...are often the dumbest. Something for you to think about.[/QUOTE]


First of all the wizards got no first round picks. They got pick swaps, one of which was for this year and worthless.

Secondly I predicted that that there was no scenario where they could actually be a good team with Beal. They got a career year out of porzingus and still won only 35 games. It was a completely wasted year.

I knew that we wouldn't get much in any trade, assuming we could actually trade him which was no sure thing. Not only was it an awful contract but he also had a no trade clause. If he didn't want to be traded he wasn't going anywhere.

Then after the wasted season we had no leverage with KP and were forced to trade him for Tyus Jones. If we had another year on KPs contract we probably get more for him.

We didn't get squat for trading Beal and had another wasted season. Instead of tanking for Wemby we are tanking in one of the worst drafts in recent.memory.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14905705]First of all the wizards got no first round picks. They got pick swaps, one of which was for this year and worthless.

Secondly I predicted that that there was no scenario where they could actually be a good team with Beal. They got a career year out of porzingus and still won only 35 games. It was a completely wasted year.

I knew that we wouldn't get much in any trade, assuming we could actually trade him which was no sure thing. Not only was it an awful contract but he also had a no trade clause. If he didn't want to be traded he wasn't going anywhere.

Then after the wasted season we had no leverage with KP and were forced to trade him for Tyus Jones. If we had another year on KPs contract we probably get more for him.

We didn't get squat for trading Beal and had another wasted season. Instead of tanking for Wemby we are tanking in one of the worst drafts in recent.memory.[/QUOTE]

Your arguments don't make sense.

You certainly got more for Beal than you would have letting him walk for nothing...because your team was capped regardless. Again, you aren't making sense.

First, you said it was dumb to sign Beal because he would be really hard to trade without attaching assets. That turned out to be 100% wrong.

Then you want the Wizards to somehow be good right away after either not signing Beal or trading him? You say he sucks, but then complain about turning him into future assets and cap flexibility?

How do you expect the Wizards to get good without bottoming out and having tradeable contracts in the next few years?

The Wizards are doing everything a team starting over should be doing. I agree they did it late...as I said on repeat...they should have traded Beal like 3 years ago at his peak...but my guess is fans like you would have complained about that as well.

Lastly, blaming Beal for the Suns is absurd. They haven't done shit since Durant got there and are a flawed team. Durant is far more to blame...he can't do shit in his career since the Warriors. Everywhere he goes, teams don't match expectations. Blaming the third option having to play a limited role is as empty as you and your camp trying to pretend you weren't dead wrong about the Beal situation in Washington.

For the record what I actually said regarding a Beal trade was.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14636133]At $35 million/yr he would be easily tradable. $50 million per year makes him a lot tougher to move, not to mention his no trade clause.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?505432-After-10-years-with-the-Wizards-Beal-is-expected-to-sign-248-million-Supermax/page28[/url]

That was the big thread about the Beal signing. I barely even mentioned trading him. What I repeated over and over is that we weren't going to be any good with him so it was pointless to resign for $50 million per year.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14905744]For the record what I actually said regarding a Beal trade was.



[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?505432-After-10-years-with-the-Wizards-Beal-is-expected-to-sign-248-million-Supermax/page28[/url]

That was the big thread about the Beal signing. I barely even mentioned trading him. What I repeated over and over is that we weren't going to be any good with him so it was pointless to resign for $50 million per year.[/QUOTE]

But it wasn't hard to move him. They moved him easily within a year and for cap flexibility and future assets....and put together a tanking team...exactly what you'd want.

So, no, it wasn't a big deal at all...signing him to potentially take on bad contracts to tank, like I argued, turned out to be the correct thing to do. You keep acting like the Wizards paid some huge price to sign Beal....they didn't...not at all.

And, as I'm sure you know being a Wizards fan...even hitting in the draft doesn't mean that much. The truth is...if the Wizards pick in the top 5 the next 3 years...they'll be lucky to get a player that turns out to be as good as Beal was for them.

End of the day...my argument was simple. The contract was not a death sentence and could be moved...and it was within a year. That is all I ever said...and I was right...the rest is just noise.

I get being frustrated as a fan, but you said it was dumb to sign Beal and would be hard to move him...then they move him within a year and tank...and you are still complaining. I highly doubt you would have been cool with the actual correct thing to do...which was trade Beal when he was 27 and had 2 years left on his deal and scoring 30 a game. That was the actual time to move him, but fans would have gone nuts about that.

Fans be fans.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14905752]But it wasn't hard to move him. They moved him easily within a year and for cap flexibility and future assets....and put together a tanking team...exactly what you'd want.

So, no, it wasn't a big deal at all...signing him to potentially take on bad contracts to tank, like I argued, turned out to be the correct thing to do. You keep acting like the Wizards paid some huge price to sign Beal....they didn't...not at all.

And, as I'm sure you know being a Wizards fan...even hitting in the draft doesn't mean that much. The truth is...if the Wizards pick in the top 5 the next 3 years...they'll be lucky to get a player that turns out to be as good as Beal was for them.

End of the day...my argument was simple. The contract was not a death sentence and could be moved...and it was within a year. That is all I ever said...and I was right...the rest is just noise.

I get being frustrated as a fan, but you said it was dumb to sign Beal and would be hard to move him...then they move him within a year and tank...and you are still complaining.

Fans be fans.[/QUOTE]


Why don't you compare what we got for Beal to what other star players have gotten traded for? The Raps got 3 first round picks for Siakam ffs.

We didn't even get one first round pick. We got pick swaps and the corpse of Chris Paul . And of course that was all contingent on Beals approval.Another wasted year trying to be good but failing miserably.

That was a very strong draft. We would have been much better of starting our tank a year earlier. There were several guys at the top of that draft making a major impact.

the heart can't be written on a contract, and committement is built on satisfaction - the animal

[QUOTE=tontoz;14905757]Why don't you compare what we got for Beal to what other star players have gotten traded for? The Raps got 3 first round picks for Siakam ffs.

We didn't even get one first round pick. We got pick swaps and the corpse of Chris Paul . And of course that was all contingent on Beals approval.Another wasted year trying to be good but failing miserably.

That was a very strong draft. We would have been much better of starting our tank a year earlier. There were several guys at the top of that draft making a major impact.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand your arguments towards me.

I was literally arguing that the Wizards should have traded Beal back in the 2021 season and rebuilt. I've been on that train likely longer than you.

Didn't they get a top 20 protected first round pick from the Warriors? It's been a bit, but I'm pretty sure they got a protected first from them in like 6 years or something. Regardless, I never said they'd get a great package for Beal unless they took on a bad contract. Either way though...they got cap flexibility and extra assets they wouldn't have had if they just didn't sign him.

I never said Beal was a top 10 player or worth his contract in a vacuum. I simply said he'd be easier to move than people thought and that it gave the Wizards a way to hard tank and get some extra assets...which is exactly what happened.

Yes, they should have done it earlier...but that doesn't change what happened after they signed him.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14905764]I don't understand your arguments towards me.

I was literally arguing that the Wizards should have traded Beal back in the 2021 season and rebuilt. I've been on that train likely longer than you.

Didn't they get a top 20 protected first round pick from the Warriors? It's been a bit, but I'm pretty sure they got a protected first from them in like 6 years or something. Regardless, I never said they'd get a great package for Beal unless they took on a bad contract. Either way though...they got cap flexibility and extra assets they wouldn't have had if they just didn't sign him.

I never said Beal was a top 10 player or worth his contract in a vacuum. I simply said he'd be easier to move than people thought and that it gave the Wizards a way to hard tank and get some extra assets...which is exactly what happened.

Yes, they should have done it earlier...but that doesn't change what happened after they signed him.[/QUOTE]


What happened after they sign him was another year wasted in irrelevance. Not coincidentally the GM that signed him to that contract was fired a year later.

I wasn't even looking at draft prospects at that time but if we had started our tank then, rather than resigning Beal, we probably could have gotten more in a KP trade and would have started our tank in a.much stronger draft year.

We are unlikely to to be better than the Suns any time soon so those pick swaps have little value. That GS pick is so conditional it is unlikely to be anything but smoke.

If the GM hadn't gotten fired I have no doubt Beal would still be here and we would still be stuck on the treadmill to no where.

You claimed that I said Beal would be impossible to trade, which I didn't say, claiming I was dead wrong and then wonder what my argument is? :facepalm

Everything I said would happen did happen. They still sucked after resigning Beal in spite of a career year from KP. They didn't get squat for trading him, but trading him for crap was better than keeping him. Fortunately the Suns new owner was desperate to make a splash and Beal was actually willing to go there.

Never seen dudes double down to this level

You finna to die on a hill for bradly beal?

Wake me up homies. This shit can’t be real. :roll:

[QUOTE=tontoz;14905765]What happened after they sign him was another year wasted in irrelevance. Not coincidentally the GM that signed him to that contract was fired a year later.

I wasn't even looking at draft prospects at that time but if we had started our tank then, rather than resigning Beal, we probably could have gotten more in a KP trade and would have started our tank in a.much stronger draft year.

We are unlikely to to be better than the Suns any time soon so those pick swaps have little value. That GS pick is so conditional it is unlikely to be anything but smoke.

If the GM hadn't gotten fired I have no doubt Beal would still be here and we would still be stuck on the treadmill to no where.

You claimed that I said Beal would be impossible to trade, which I didn't say, claiming I was dead wrong and then wonder what my argument is? :facepalm

Everything I said would happen did happen. They still sucked after resigning Beal in spite of a career year from KP. They didn't get squat for trading him, but trading him for crap was better than keeping him. Fortunately the Suns new owner was desperate to make a splash and Beal was actually willing to go there.[/QUOTE]

The argument doesn’t make sense because signing Beal didn’t hurt them at all.

You are combining a lot of different past moves with the Beal signing.

My memory was that you argued Beal would be very difficult to trade and would hurt the team … and the simply was not the case.

Arguing with me about other Wizards moves is silly because my take was trading Beal at his peak in 21. Still haven’t heard if you would have been cool with that.


Like I said. Signing Beal made sense for the exact reasons I said and then it played out exactly like I said it could. Also, not signing him and tanking made sense as well.

You are flipping the burden. I said both made sense, but you argued signing Beal was really stupid and he’d be hard to move.

I think what played clearly proves my stance was not only more reasonable, but objectively more accurate as well given that he was moved so easily and for positive value for a tanking team.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14905785]Never seen dudes double down to this level

You finna to die on a hill for bradly beal?

Wake me up homies. This shit can’t be real. :roll:[/QUOTE]

That is literally you. Everything you said couldn’t happen…did in fact happen.

You were wrong. Sorry you can’t handle it.

Well Beal might be unmovable now. Suns have no picks to attach to him. And yes when you make that much money and use your ridiculous ntc to force your way to phx I’ll give you some blame. Was way too injury prone this year for one. Also I completely get his stats being role player esque with Durant and Booker on the court but when he was with just one of the two he put up unimpressive volume on average efficiency according to lowe. When it was just him volume was good star lvl but he was inefficient. Beal had to be better in those minutes. Also cp3 wasn’t that unmovable with a partial guarantee. Could’ve gotten two random rotation guys for him and all those 2nd rd picks and swaps.

[QUOTE]My memory was that you argued Beal would be very difficult to trade and would hurt the team … and the simply was not the case.[/QUOTE]


Your memory sucks. I linked the 36 page thread about his signing. I only once mentioned his trade value, and I just said a $50 million contract with a no trade clause would be harder to trade than a $35 million deal which is closey to his true value.

My primary objection to paying him is that we already know what to expect. The wizards have no path to being good with Beal on the roster. It just means they will stay on the treadmill to nowhere. Portland east is what I called them.

Not only did we spend another year in irrelevance with 35 wins. We missed out on some excellent draft prospects last year. Starting our tank in a lousy draft year is right out of the #sowizards playbook.

3 things had to happen for Beal to get traded.
-the GM got fired
-we needed another team dumb enough to trade for him.
-beal had to approve the trade.

Even after the trade all we got was expiring and pick swaps and that was the best case scenario. The worst case scenario was spending another 5 more years on the treadmill to nowhere.

There was minimal upside to resigning Beal and major downside. That is not a bet I would ever make.

You aren't a wizards fan so you can't grasp the fact that fans aren't interested in spending another 5 years on the same treadmill we've been on for decades.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41;14905864]That is literally you. Everything you said couldn’t happen…did in fact happen.

You were wrong. Sorry you can’t handle it.[/QUOTE]

If you are gonna shift goal posts and try to say you only said

“the contract is able to be moved” and that’s it….

fine, you win, congratulations, send a thank you to Mat Ishbia for being a special kind of stupid. you can leave the thread now




My point remains the same

Beal contract is terrible value for his performance and health. The No trade clause makes it even more insane.

He’s going to be detrimental to any team trying to win because he simply does not pull the weight of his salary. He’s a burden.

Suns are now big time ****ed

[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/hjk3q7JB/IMG-3387.jpg[/IMG]

It’s the worst contract in the league.


Just saw this too lol

[QUOTE] Bradley Beal has two seasons and $103.8 million remaining on his current contract along with a player option for the 2026-27 season worth $57.1 million, which he assuredly will exercise given that massive figure.
That alone is prohibitive from a team-building standpoint for the Phoenix Suns, but Beal also has a no-trade clause alongside the three years left on his deal. And that should have given the Suns pause before they traded for him last summer, according to ESPN's Bobby Marks.
"[Beal's no-trade clause] should have been a dealbreaker if you're Phoenix," he said Monday (2:00 mark). "That should have been a walkaway. Now you are married, again, to that no-trade clause and probably the most toxic contract in NBA history. Beal's a good player. Beal's not a $50-million-per-year player. He's not worth the $160 million left on his contract."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;14905867]Well Beal might be unmovable now. Suns have no picks to attach to him. And yes when you make that much money and use your ridiculous ntc to force your way to phx IÂ’ll give you some blame. Was way too injury prone this year for one. Also I completely get his stats being role player esque with Durant and Booker on the court but when he was with just one of the two he put up unimpressive volume on average efficiency according to lowe. When it was just him volume was good star lvl but he was inefficient. Beal had to be better in those minutes. Also cp3 wasnÂ’t that unmovable with a partial guarantee. CouldÂ’ve gotten two random rotation guys for him and all those 2nd rd picks and swaps.[/QUOTE]

Yup. Agree with everything you said.

Looking at it from the other side it feels like Phoenix got caught up in the moment after last year's playoffs. It was like Suns decision makers forgot the massive investment they made in KD because all they could see was Booker's historic playoff run...

[QUOTE]Durant took the most corner 3s of his career this season, totaling 68 corner 3-point attempts. That may not be a lot for guys whose job it is to sit in the corner and knock down 3s, but considering that prior to this year, K.D. averaged around 23.2 corner 3s over his career, that's a significant rise. And while he was knocking them down at a 46% clip, which ranked in the 93rd percentile, that's not the best use of someone of Durant's generational talents.[/QUOTE]

Monty was the problem. Old CP3 was the problem. Ayton was the problem. Bench missing shots was the problem. Nah. the problem always was Phoenix has unrealistic expectation for Booker. He does not offer enough when he is not scoring. It is unfair to compare him to Steph but that is the role the Suns tried to put him in... Curry drew the defense away from the areas KD likes to operate and Booker just is not that caliber of player.