MJ dunks over Hakeem

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944773]Stop it

You are going full clown mode.

No one gives a damn about this irreverent straw man of “If Chris Bosh didn’t play with Lebron there is a chance casual fans might not then remember who he was today!”





People fading chris bosh look real loony.[/QUOTE]

It's really crazy because we could say the same thing about Pippen if he didn't play with MJ and was stuck on some bum lotto franchise like the mid 2000s Raptors.

Scottie wouldn't have half the accolades or esteem if he was on a terrible team which gives serious credence to the winning spotlight theory.

To be fair, surely there was a reason bosh was the third big three member, right? There had to be other options.

Arguing about bosh after mj dunks on hakeem, 3ball is rubbing his hands together.

-Smak

[QUOTE=tpols;14944785]It's really crazy because we could say the same thing about Pippen if he didn't play with MJ and was stuck on some bum lotto franchise like the mid 2000s Raptors.

Scottie wouldn't have half the accolades or esteem if he was on a terrible team which gives serious credence to the winning spotlight theory.[/QUOTE]


what’s crazy to me is I didn’t say if he didn’t play with LeBron nobody would remember him now. And the reason I wouldn’t say that is because he did play on the heat and he is already being forgotten anyway. Chris Bosh isnt some unknown commodity. He was on the most high profile team of his era. People just don’t care. I think Draymond is going to be that way. Robert Parish is that guy for birds Celtics. Glenn Rice for that first Laker championship.

I don’t know if he’s gonna have the lasting power of James worthy.

The difference between Bosh and guys like Dray or Parish is Bosh proved himself outside of a dynasty system. All NBA team member, multiple time All Star, led bum teams to playoff berths... etc.

I seriously doubt Parish or Dray ever do any of that on those lotto Toronto teams. Dray especially. But Parish too was kind of a stiff player to ever take a No. 1 scoring option role. Some guys just benefitted more from the winning spotlight. Chris Bosh wasn't really one of them. Miami made him look bad actually. Worse than what he was capable of.

Why didn't Bosh make any all NBA teams under the "winning spotlight" theory?

Why didn't he make any all NBA defensive teams?

The winning spotlight didn't give him any accolades or high praise that otherwise would not have been given.

Scottie on a bad team is still an all star. He's still getting all NBA selections. Don't believe me? Just ask Bird. I think he knows a thing or two about talent. He coached against Pippen.

"Pippen with Jordan is the second best player in the league. Without him he's probably fourth"

If you're a top 5 player in the league that just happens to be stuck in a shitty team for years and years you still get a lot of attention. Garnett was stuck in Minnesota and still came away with a shit load of accolades.

That actually makes your argument even worse the fact that Bosh made All NBA on a team where he had no star help but didn't on Miami. That proves his talent in a pure vacuum was legit.

Like I said before the Heat marginalized him. And everybody saw it. They turned an extremely skilled midrange scorer into a chucking spot up 3pt shooter. This isn't anything new.

Lebron's cast has done things that are objectively superior to Jordan's cast, such as making All-NBA before joining him and before the winning spotlight of titles (Love, Bosh, Wade), or making the Finals without him (Kyrie, Wade), or outplaying goat players like Dirk, Curry, young MJ and Jokic (Wade, Kyrie, AD).

Jordan's cast was never on this level because Jordan won with normal, "organic" casts of 1 franchise player (1 player that was asked to build something from scratch), while Lebron needed better rosters of 3 franchise players (super-team).

Despite teaming up with opposing franchise players, the "bron-ball" brand of ball mostly lost with every cast and consistently underachieved favored talent (lost with preseason favorite, or fell to underdog).

[QUOTE=3ba11;14944770]Bosh's great PNR defense got no credit on the Heat except among people in the know![/QUOTE]

Not even remotely true. That was always a topic of conversation.

He improved as a defender and overall basketball player with the Heat.

I love how Bosh didn't make as much as an All-NBA 3rd Team in 12 of his 13 seasons in the league, and tpols will continue to pretend that one outlier of a year he made it was the norm for him, not the exception. It's just so ridiculously disingenuous :lol

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14944816]Not even remotely true. That was always a topic of conversation.

He improved as a defender and overall basketball player with the Heat.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, and that tangible credit that Bosh got for his ground-breaking PNR defense (which allowed the ground-breaking "small-ball" to even be possible) would be MORE THAN ENOUGH to get him all-defense alongside the goat and unprecedented winning spotlight of the 90's Bulls... Pippen was given All-defense for less tangible things..

So Bosh would be all-defense virtually every year, especially with MJ hogging up all the offensive spotlight - that's how the media handled such a dominant offensive player - they simply inflated the defense of everyone else so they could fill shows and have something to talk about aside from the GOAT all the time.. Bosh would benefit from this defensive inflation just like Pippen, except it wouldn't be inflation for Bosh since he actually has TANGIBLE defensive value that anyone can articulate - he made small-ball possible by showing all bigs in today's game how to play PNR defense...

So it's a [i]travesty[/i] that Bosh didn't get all-defense and it's all due to the Klutch agenda to diminish Bron's teammates and inflate Lebron to create the current fake debate and perpetuate the fraud further.

[QUOTE=tpols;14944798]The difference between Bosh and guys like Dray or Parish is Bosh proved himself outside of a dynasty system. All NBA team member, multiple time All Star, led bum teams to playoff berths... etc.

I seriously doubt Parish or Dray ever do any of that on those lotto Toronto teams. Dray especially. But Parish too was kind of a stiff player to ever take a No. 1 scoring option role. Some guys just benefitted more from the winning spotlight. Chris Bosh wasn't really one of them. Miami made him look bad actually. Worse than what he was capable of.[/QUOTE]

Julius Randle is a multi time All Star all NBA second teamer who led a team a role players to home court when Brunson was on the Mavs. LaMarcus Aldridge led a 48 win blazer team when Brandon Roy started 23 games. Go look at the names on that roster and look at how many games they played. Gerald Wallace played 15 games. Andre Miller had 18 starts left in his career. Go look at the conversation around Jose Calderon when Arenas was mad he was getting All-Star consideration. He was definitely having a great year with Bosh compared to old Andre Miller. And La was all NBA five times and second team multiple times .It really isn’t something that automatically gets you remembered as some top player of your era.

you gotta have a hook. Something that stands out. 12 years of nothing in Toronto wouldn’t have done anything that seven years didn’t.

like I said, he was a great player. Like a huge list of other great players nobody cares about because they weren’t the special kind of great.

And the much discussed winning spotlight and championships didn’t change that.

he was both a productive loser and a selfless winner without his stock rising that much. At that point people just aren’t that blown away by the basketball being played.

You’re free to speculate as to why that is, but I think it’s the same reason most people like Bosch never grab the attention of the public. You just aren’t watching anything that special or unusual.

Great. But like Terry Cummings great. Truck Robinson great. Not the kind you’re gonna be talking about forever.

:lol

His PNR defense wasn’t “ground-breaking”. He was just good at it. Many people are, some better than he was.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14944824]:lol

His PNR defense wasn’t “ground-breaking”. He was just good at it. Many people are, some better than he was.


[/QUOTE]



[SIZE=3]Back in 2012, Bosh's defense was ground-breaking and it enabled the Heat's small-ball - this is well-known:[/SIZE]




[INDENT][IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-21-2024/py8MDt.gif[/IMG]



[IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-21-2024/OXpVT5.gif[/IMG]



[IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-21-2024/C5oE5r.gif[/IMG][/INDENT]




[SIZE=3]Again, this TANGIBLE defensive value of making small-ball possible in 2012 is more than enough to get perennial all-defense alongside MJ, especially since Pippen got all-defense for less tangible things and also since the media gave all the [I]offensive[/I] credit to MJ, thereby needing to inflate Bulls' defenders.. This dynamic coupled with the unprecedented winning spotlight and Bosh's tangible value is more than enough to get him all-defense every year.
[/SIZE]

I think having Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh on a team together is what allowed the small ball to work :lol

He played strong PNR defense, a lot of people did. The biggest aspect is that he did it selflessly. Several guys could have done that. Just because he was in a situation where it was very useful doesn’t mean no one could have done it. Others just weren’t in that situation.

The reason he never made defensive team because he wasn’t anything special as a man defender, and was weak against bigger guys.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14944831]I think having Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh on a team together is what allowed the small ball to work :lol

He played strong PNR defense, a lot of people did. The biggest aspect is that he did it selflessly. Several guys could have done that. Just because he was in a situation where it was very useful doesn’t mean no one could have done it. Others just weren’t in that situation.

The reason he never made defensive team because he wasn’t anything special as a man defender, and was weak against bigger guys.[/QUOTE]


All those "lucky situation" arguments can be made for Pippen, [I]and much more so[/I] because Pippen wasn't All-NBA until he joined MJ and started winning titles, while Bosh was All-NBA with nothing..

Btw, Bosh was league MVP for a few weeks in 2015 without Lebron before his health started to get the better of him - [I]so Bosh was good before and after bron-ball, while the opposite was true for Pippen and the triangle - he stunk before and after it[/I]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944823]Julius Randle is a multi time All Star all NBA second teamer who led a team a role players to home court when Brunson was on the Mavs. LaMarcus Aldridge led a 48 win blazer team when Brandon Roy started 23 games. Go look at the names on that roster and look at how many games they played. Gerald Wallace played 15 games. Andre Miller had 18 starts left in his career. Go look at the conversation around Jose Calderon when Arenas was mad he was getting All-Star consideration. He was definitely having a great year with Bosh compared to old Andre Miller. And La was all NBA five times and second team multiple times .It really isn’t something that automatically gets you remembered as some top player of your era.

you gotta have a hook. Something that stands out. 12 years of nothing in Toronto wouldn’t have done anything that seven years didn’t.

like I said, he was a great player. Like a huge list of other great players nobody cares about because they weren’t the special kind of great.

And the much discussed winning spotlight and championships didn’t change that.

he was both a productive loser and a selfless winner without his stock rising that much. At that point people just aren’t that blown away by the basketball being played.

You’re free to speculate as to why that is, but I think it’s the same reason most people like Bosch never grab the attention of the public. You just aren’t watching anything that special or unusual.

Great. But like Terry Cummings great. Truck Robinson great. Not the kind you’re gonna be talking about forever.[/QUOTE]

bro, autistically spouting out a bunch of names isn’t gonna make Chris Bosh any worse of a player

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944823]Julius Randle is a multi time All Star all NBA second teamer who led a team a role players to home court when Brunson was on the Mavs. LaMarcus Aldridge led a 48 win blazer team when Brandon Roy started 23 games. Go look at the names on that roster and look at how many games they played. Gerald Wallace played 15 games. Andre Miller had 18 starts left in his career. Go look at the conversation around Jose Calderon when Arenas was mad he was getting All-Star consideration. He was definitely having a great year with Bosh compared to old Andre Miller. And La was all NBA five times and second team multiple times .It really isn’t something that automatically gets you remembered as some top player of your era.

you gotta have a hook. Something that stands out. 12 years of nothing in Toronto wouldn’t have done anything that seven years didn’t.

like I said, he was a great player. Like a huge list of other great players nobody cares about because they weren’t the special kind of great.

And the much discussed winning spotlight and championships didn’t change that.

he was both a productive loser and a selfless winner without his stock rising that much. At that point people just aren’t that blown away by the basketball being played.

You’re free to speculate as to why that is, but I think it’s the same reason most people like Bosch never grab the attention of the public. You just aren’t watching anything that special or unusual.

Great. But like Terry Cummings great. Truck Robinson great. Not the kind you’re gonna be talking about forever.[/QUOTE]


I'm not sure how being compared to Blazers LMA or Julius Randle when he put up 25/10 on elite efficiency is a nothing burger.

Those two have had seasons as good or better than some years of prime pippen. That's why we are trying to highlight their games because they didn't have the privilege of the winning spotlight to the extent pippen did.

Forgive me if I’m wrong Blaze but aren’t you one of those who blast the ring counting culture from fans? Pretty sure i’ve seen you simp for players who never won a ring and about how it’s not fair, they are still the same skill of player but there are things out of their control….


Then you come out here with this energy trying to fade Bosh like a mother ****er because he played with straight trash in Toronto for years


:kobe:

[QUOTE=3ba11;14944835]All those "lucky situation" arguments can be made for Pippen, [I]and much more so[/I] because [B]Pippen wasn't All-NBA until he joined MJ[/B] and started winning titles, while Bosh was All-NBA with nothing..

Btw, Bosh was league MVP for a few weeks in 2015 without Lebron before his health started to get the better of him - [I]so Bosh was good before and after bron-ball, while the opposite was true for Pippen and the triangle - he stunk before and after it[/I][/QUOTE]

He was drafted to the Bulls?

[QUOTE=tpols;14944845]I'm not sure how being compared to Blazers LMA or Julius Randle when he put up 25/10 on elite efficiency is a nothing burger.

[B]Those two have had seasons as good or better than some years of prime pippen[/B]. That's why we are trying to highlight their games because they didn't have the privilege of the winning spotlight to the extent pippen did.[/QUOTE]

LMA? Meh..perhaps. Randle? Hard negative.

tpols and warriorfan don't believe a single thing they're arguing in this thread.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14944848]He was drafted to the Bulls?[/QUOTE]

Lol you caught that too? He makes it seem like Pippen had 7-8 years in the league, got traded to the Bulls and THEN he becomes an all-nba level player.

The dumbest threads get the most attention here. Well done OP, you're the only reason this forum is still running.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14944884]Lol you caught that too? He makes it seem like Pippen had 7-8 years in the league, got traded to the Bulls and THEN he becomes an all-nba level player.

The dumbest threads get the most attention here. Well done OP, you're the only reason this forum is still running.[/QUOTE]

Go to the Shaq vs Bron thread. haha, when people start talking about something interesting (tho that's not so interesting,) gotta stay with that. Just like Caitlin is THE TRUTH thread. The thing about 3ball is he is persistent. Gotta be as persistent. Gotta work for good bball discussion!!

-Smak

[QUOTE]
Forgive me if I’m wrong Blaze but aren’t you one of those who blast the ring counting culture from fans? Pretty sure i’ve seen you simp for players who never won a ring and about how it’s not fair, they are still the same skill of player but there are things out of their control….


Then you come out here with this energy trying to fade Bosh like a mother ****er because he played with straight trash in Toronto for years

[/QUOTE]


I would love just once for the “But didn’t you say…” Argument to not come from someone guilty of exactly what they are complaining about. Just once. On any subject. You have been talking for years about Pau playoff record before Kobe happy to ignore he won 50 games with a 13ppg James Posey as a second option in a historically tough west. “Oh but didn’t you say…” has a 100% “Wait…but didn’t YOU say…” rate.

Anyway…no. I was saying the same thing about Bosh before he even had the losing seasons in question. He just happened to go on to not do anything worth talking about to support me. I found a topic from like 08 where I listed 22 people I’d rather have and it expanded to 28 with other people’s suggestions. It included plenty of people who also weren’t winning.

Just didn’t see anything that great. It is funny watching people like you who back people using team success to prove your evaluations accurate throw it away to push agendas though. People are really picky with that. Wins and losses tell the whole story except when it doesn’t.

About the only player I give “He’s just a winner” status is Bill Russell. And he was carved from a block of pure victory so you can’t blame me for that.

I enjoy pointing out when “He just makes his team win” types choose to go the other way though.

I can give it a pass when the person in question at least did win though.

When it’s applied to people who did nothing but lose I’m gonna **** with them about it.

I can look the other way if you wanna “He just….wins!” a winner. It isn’t that simple but there’s no need to be a dick about it and fight with fans. People out here wanting to use being a winner as an argument for dudes who never won though. That shit is my bat signal.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944957]I would love just once for the “But didn’t you say…” Argument to not come from someone guilty of exactly what they are complaining about. Just once. On any subject. You have been talking for years about Pau playoff record before Kobe happy to ignore he won 50 games with a 13ppg James Posey as a second option in a historically tough west. “Oh but didn’t you say…” has a 100% “Wait…but didn’t YOU say…” rate.

Anyway…no. I was saying the same thing about Bosh before he even had the losing seasons in question. He just happened to go on to not do anything worth talking about to support me. I found a topic from like 08 where I listed 22 people I’d rather have and it expanded to 28 with other people’s suggestions. It included plenty of people who also weren’t winning.

Just didn’t see anything that great. It is funny watching people like you who back people using team success to prove your evaluations accurate throw it away to push agendas though. People are really picky with that. Wins and losses tell the whole story except when it doesn’t.

About the only player I give “He’s just a winner” status is Bill Russell. And he was carved from a block of pure victory so you can’t blame me for that.

I enjoy pointing out when “He just makes his team win” types choose to go the other way though.

I can give it a pass when the person in question at least did win though.

When it’s applied to people who did nothing but lose I’m gonna **** with them about it.

I can look the other way if you wanna “He just….wins!” a winner. It isn’t that simple but there’s no need to be a dick about it and fight with fans. People out here wanting to use being a winner as an argument for dudes who never won though. That shit is my bat signal.[/QUOTE]


Only ever brought up pau not winning a playoff game when dudes would try to shit on Love and Bosh for the same thing.


Once again Im pretty sure i’ve seen you simp for guys who get shit on for not having team success

Just interesting you change your tune with bosh

just saying

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944959]Only ever brought up pau not winning a playoff game when dudes would try to shit on Love and Bosh for the same thing.


Once again Im pretty sure i’ve seen you simp for guys who get shit on for not having team success

Just interesting you change your tune with bosh

just saying[/QUOTE]
Why are you obsessively hating on a guy who made history in LeBron James? Didn't you have a meltdown about me supposedly doing that about Ohtani (baseball's LeBron)? Hypocrisy off the charts, yikes. Time to log in to LLL3 for backup!

[QUOTE=tpols;14944845]I'm not sure how being compared to Blazers LMA or Julius Randle when he put up 25/10 on elite efficiency is a nothing burger.

Those two have had seasons as good or better than some years of prime pippen. That's why we are trying to highlight their games because they didn't have the privilege of the winning spotlight to the extent pippen did.[/QUOTE]


And Zach Lavine put up 24+ a game on 48/39/85 on a playoff team. I could run you down a good list of hall of famers to never do that. Even if we throw out the 3 and ft percentages.

Nobody cares. And nobody should.

All just a byproduct of the game having a set number of players and teams needing 100+ points. People not necessarily on or near the same level will be similarly productive. Especially across eras.

A lot of people do 29/6/4 without being as good as Jordan was when he won an mvp with those numbers.

There have been “Meh” 24/10s and “He’s the best in the nba” 22/12”.

And we all know it. But when we need to prop up someone we act like it’s a given the numbers translate directly to greatness.

Everyone is guilty of it to some extent I just wish we could do it without the indignation and pretense that we don’t know it’s a very flawed system.

Plenty of Randle and Bosh types have not been as good as some want them to be considered due to numbers. Plenty have been much more effective than numbers suggest.

I feel like we are all far enough along in these discussions to stop having the same fallback numbers vs “But what he win tho?” arguments.

I didn’t **** with him before it was established he didn’t make that great a difference. And I have since watched a bunch of “He just….WINS” people selectively prop up some losers and shit on others and it just happens to always fall in line with who they need to make look good or bad because of some argument about someone else’s supporting cast.

I can’t get what feels like an honest consistent across the board evaluation out of anyone.

You like the guy like him. None of my concern. The takes all just seem to fall exactly in like with what one would expect from the source.

I can show you me choosing Rodman over Love when love was having a season that statistically had no precedent. But people will pull the same shit they do with Bosh now and act like everyone was sold on him at the time.

Fans have been disregarding the production of guys they aren’t that impressed by since the start of tracking stats. But personal ties and agendas make it more or less offensive for each of us case by case.

We have all responded to some generally impressive stat line with a “…..and?” but seem shocked and appalled every time we see someone do it to one we present as evidence.

If nothing else….we should stop acting like it’s the first time every time.

An awful lot of productive people just aren’t as impressive as their supporters want others to think.

Especially ones with “That nice….” stats instead of “Jesus Christ….” stats.

And in truth?

A few of the “Jesus Christ….” lines aren’t THAT amazing either basketball playing wise. Not many. But a few.

The Bosh type numbers have a long history of being attached to people we don’t look back on as special. There is a whole sack of 22ish and 9ish guys we don’t give two shits about.

He doesn’t have a “Thing”.

It’s probably time to stop being surprised he’s not that highly regarded in retrospect. He got the winners bump. It keeps him out of Randle and Aldridge territory for the most part. But that’s where he lives production wise and success wise.

He managed to escape that zone without the special part of his game that provides the hook for most borderline all nba types who last in our memories. He got to be an all star doing 16/7. He got to pad the resume. He’s in the hall.

All things considered he’s more highly regarded historically than his game justified.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944961]And Zach Lavine put up 24+ a game on 48/39/85 on a playoff team. I could run you down a good list of hall of famers to never do that. Even if we throw out the 3 and ft percentages.

Nobody cares. And nobody should.

All just a byproduct of the game having a set number of players and teams needing 100+ points. People not necessarily on or near the same level will be similarly productive. Especially across eras.

A lot of people do 29/6/4 without being as good as Jordan was when he won an mvp with those numbers.

There have been “Meh” 24/10s and “He’s the best in the nba” 22/12”.

And we all know it. But when we need to prop up someone we act like it’s a given the numbers translate directly to greatness.

Everyone is guilty of it to some extent I just wish we could do it without the indignation and pretense that we don’t know it’s a very flawed system.

Plenty of Randle and Bosh types have not been as good as some want them to be considered due to numbers. Plenty have been much more effective than numbers suggest.

I feel like we are all far enough along in these discussions to stop having the same fallback numbers vs “But what he win tho?” arguments.

I didn’t **** with him before it was established he didn’t make that great a difference. And I have since watched a bunch of “He just….WINS” people selectively prop up some losers and shit on others and it just happens to always fall in line with who they need to make look good or bad because of some argument about someone else’s supporting cast.

I can’t get what feels like an honest consistent across the board evaluation out of anyone.

You like the guy like him. None of my concern. The takes all just seem to fall exactly in like with what one would expect from the source.

I can show you me choosing Rodman over Love when love was having a season that statistically had no precedent. But people will pull the same shit they do with Bosh now and act like everyone was sold on him at the time.

Fans have been disregarding the production of guys they aren’t that impressed by since the start of tracking stats. But personal ties and agendas make it more or less offensive for each of us case by case.

We have all responded to some generally impressive stat line with a “…..and?” but seem shocked and appalled every time we see someone do it to one we present as evidence.

If nothing else….we should stop acting like it’s the first time every time.

An awful lot of productive people just aren’t as impressive as their supporters want others to think.

Especially ones with “That nice….” stats instead of “Jesus Christ….” stats.

And in truth?

A few of the “Jesus Christ….” lines aren’t THAT amazing either basketball playing wise. Not many. But a few.

The Bosh type numbers have a long history of being attached to people we don’t look back on as special. There is a whole sack of 22ish and 9ish guys we don’t give two shits about.

He doesn’t have a “Thing”.

It’s probably time to stop being surprised he’s not that highly regarded in retrospect. He got the winners bump. It keeps him out of Randle and Aldridge territory for the most part. But that’s where he lives production wise and success wise.

He managed to escape that zone without the special part of his game that provides the hook for most borderline all nba types who last in our memories. He got to be an all star doing 16/7. He got to pad the resume. He’s in the hall.

All things considered he’s more highly regarded historically than his game justified.[/QUOTE]
Tpols and warriorfan don't believe any of the shit they're saying about Bosh supposedly being better than Pippen, they just see it as a way to make LeBron look worse, it's really bizarre behavior and insulting that they think we can't realize what they're doing.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14944963]Tpols and warriorfan don't believe any of the shit they're saying about Bosh supposedly being better than Pippen, they just see it as a way to make LeBron look worse, it's really bizarre behavior and insulting that they think we can't realize what they're doing.[/QUOTE]
I have seen warriorfan claim Bosh was better than Kobe in 2010, so he could believe it for all I know.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14944965][B]I have seen warriorfan claim Bosh was better than Kobe in 2010[/B], so he could believe it for all I know.[/QUOTE]
WHAT????? Link?

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944959]Only ever brought up pau not winning a playoff game when dudes would try to shit on Love and Bosh for the same thing.


Once again Im pretty sure i’ve seen you simp for guys who get shit on for not having team success

Just interesting you change your tune with bosh

just saying[/QUOTE]



So more “I do this all the time but it’s ok when I do” nonsense?

Every single thing I’ve said about them all existed before any of these agenda dipped takes everything you say is colored by.

I was on here when Kobe demanded a trade saying I’d rather the Bulls trade for Pau because we would just become the lakers east and lose with Kobe once we traded all our pieces for him. This is 2007. Memphis had won 22 games that year.

I’ve not liked winners and explained that losers weren’t at fault for it. Always case by case. I didn’t **** with Bosh winning rings or doing 15 a game in the playoffs getting destroyed in Toronto.

People aren’t necessarily their team results. But when the team results sync up with pre existing criticism?

Thats when it gets too easy.

I just wish I could find the topic when Jermaine O’Neal got to Toronto. It’s gotta be in my top 5 rightest moments.

Early in his career I was often on his side of comparisons because for some reason Knicks fans had a thing for comparing him to Michael Sweetney. And then somehow it ended up Bosh vs Josh Howard with a mavs fan friend of mine who used to post here. But somewhere around 06 or 07.

Been saying the same shit ever since and you types pop up with different reasons I must think it in retrospect.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14944966]WHAT????? Link?[/QUOTE]


He had a run of lying about believing your per ranking decided your league ranking, but it went directly in conflict with a number of other things. Like Kobe being something like 11th that same year. Couldn’t come out and say that per obviously doesn’t determine ranking because he was posting the per ranking five or 10 times a week back then as if it did.

A tricky little hypocrisy to navigate, but he did his best.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14944966]WHAT????? Link?[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?413651-Curry-got-the-2nd-highest-per-to-play-with-him-LeBron-joined-the-2nd-AND-4th-highest&p=12505070#post12505070"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?413651-Curry-got-the-2nd-highest-per-to-play-with-him-LeBron-joined-the-2nd-AND-4th-highest&p=12505070#post12505070[/URL]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944970]He had a run of lying about believing your per ranking decided your league ranking, but it went directly in conflict with a number of other things. Like Kobe being something like 11th that same year. Couldn’t come out and say that per obviously doesn’t determine ranking because he was posting the per ranking five or 10 times a week back then as if it did.

A tricky little hypocrisy to navigate, but he did his best.[/QUOTE]
I'll admit I used to take PER seriously a while ago, but Hassan Whiteside, amongst just learning more about the game, definitely soured me on it. As with all Heat fans, I considered him at best a solid player, and in many years an active detriment, and we improved considerably when we started playing a pre-prime Bam Adebayo over him, despite Bam never getting particularly close to Whiteside's PER scores. PER would have you believe Whiteside is one of the best players of all time, and he's easily one of my least favorite Heat players ever, just the definition of empty stats. I can confidently say that's not the case for Bosh, but I certainly wouldn't say Bosh is better than Kobe either...

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14944972][URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?413651-Curry-got-the-2nd-highest-per-to-play-with-him-LeBron-joined-the-2nd-AND-4th-highest&p=12505070#post12505070"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?413651-Curry-got-the-2nd-highest-per-to-play-with-him-LeBron-joined-the-2nd-AND-4th-highest&p=12505070#post12505070[/URL][/QUOTE]
I forgot how badly 2016 broke him

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944970]He had a run of lying about believing your per ranking decided your league ranking, but it went directly in conflict with a number of other things. Like Kobe being something like 11th that same year. Couldn’t come out and say that per obviously doesn’t determine ranking because he was posting the per ranking five or 10 times a week back then as if it did.

A tricky little hypocrisy to navigate, but he did his best.[/QUOTE]

I’d imagine it was in response to Lebron fans using PER as gospel, since he dominated the number at the time. Understandable push-back at the time but still throwing it in 10-12 years later is odd.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14944994]I’d imagine it was in response to Lebron fans using PER as gospel, since he dominated the number at the time. Understandable push-back at the time but still throwing it in 10-12 years later is odd.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure he was arguing LeBron is "borderline top 10" the other day :lol

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14944994]I’d imagine it was in response to Lebron fans using PER as gospel, since he dominated the number at the time. Understandable push-back at the time but still throwing it in 10-12 years later is odd.[/QUOTE]


I didn’t **** with Bosh all the way back to the Bush administration. Random things I found from me as far back as 2006


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