Printable View
[QUOTE=diamenz;15006924]#Baller234
i assume that you agree with me here, at least.[/QUOTE]
I don't think America is obligated to get involved in every war, but best believe if an all out war were to break out in the middle east America would have a vested interest in Israel coming out on top. They are a very valuable ally to us and also the world at large.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15006929]Election night is bad regardless of who wins, that's what you don't get. Both corporate parties are the enemy of everyday folks. Dems are controlled opposition, them winning means at best the Republicans just win in 2028 instead. And hey I bet the Dems will win in 2028 or 2032, and people will think stuff will change. It's a big club and you ain't in it-George Carlin. But you're too dumb to get it and still think one party is on your side. Neither are.
God it infuriates you that I didn't vote for Harris. You were so ready to pounce on that :roll: "but but but you trolled me about Trump's mugshot" :cry: Maybe stop worshipping the guy and you get trolled less?[/QUOTE]
You didn't vote for The Cackler because you wanted to retain your street cred and not be seen siding with the genocide enabler, but we both know deep down you were rooting for her to win.
And had she won, you would have been gloating and celebrating. You can claim its in the name of trolling Trumpers, but again all that proves is that hating Trump is the most important thing to you above all.
Had the genocide enabler won, you would have had your best night's sleep in years.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15006931][B]They are a very valuable ally to us[/B] and also the world at large.[/QUOTE]
do you believe that their supposed 'value' is worth the billions upon billions that we've sent, the wars that we've fought and american lives lost on their behalf and the strangehold that their lobby has on [B]our [/B]government, including donald trump that sacrifices their priorities over ours is worth the investment? you do realize the unprecedented power of the israel lobby and the blowback that it has on an america-first agenda i assume.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15006934]You didn't vote for The Cackler because you wanted to retain your street cred and not be seen siding with the genocide enabler, but we both know deep down you were rooting for her to win.
And had she won, you would have been gloating and celebrating. You can claim its in the name of trolling Trumpers, but again all that proves is that hating Trump is the most important thing to you above all.
Had the genocide enabler won, you would have had your best night's sleep in years.[/QUOTE]
I didn't vote for Harris because she's a corporate stooge, same as Trump. The rest is you screaming about the voices in your head. You still haven't realized both parties are screwing us. Maybe one day you'll be smart enough to see it.
[QUOTE=diamenz;15006935]do you believe that their supposed 'value' is worth the billions upon billions that we've sent, the wars that we've fought and american lives lost on their behalf and the strangehold that their lobby has on [B]our [/B]government, including donald trump that sacrifices their priorities over ours is worth the investment? you do realize the unprecedented power of the israel lobby i assume.[/QUOTE]
Well America is the greatest and freest country in the world and it's not like we live under some oppressive regime, so if Israel is the one really pulling the strings then to that I say thank you Israel for making America so free and so great.
On a more serious note though, when it comes to the biggest problems facing our country, Israel just isn't that high on the list at all for me. We've given billions to countless countries so I can't pretend to know what our total return on investment is. In the grand scheme of things I'm sure Israel has given us a greater return than most.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15006946]Well America is the greatest and freest country in the world and it's not like we live under some oppressive regime, so if Israel is the one really pulling the strings then to that I say thank you Israel for making America so free and so great.
On a more serious note though, when it comes to the biggest problems facing our country, Israel just isn't that high on the list at all for me. We've given billions to countless countries so I can't pretend to know what our total return on investment is. In the grand scheme of things I'm sure [B]Israel has given us a greater return than most.[/B][/QUOTE]
that may indeed be the case but who else is "most"?
again, i'll reiterate. [B]the billions upon billions, the wars fought, trillions spent on said wars and americans lives lost[/B] are worth the,return on investment for... what i assume you would argue to be ME intel and correct me if there's more to it than just that.
so to clarify, you believe that tradeoff is indeed worth it?
this is important for me to understand because you see so clearly through the left's bullshit and i admire you for that but i don't know how well you're able to see through your own side's bullshit, or if you're even willing to have a gander in that direction.
[QUOTE=diamenz;15006947]that may indeed be the case.
but again i'll reiterate the billions upon billions, the wars fought, trillions spent on said wars and americans lives lost are worth the,return on investment for... what i assume you would argue to be ME intel and correct me if there's more to it than that.
so to clarify, you believe that tradeoff is indeed worth it?[/QUOTE]
I have no idea. It would probably be impossible to measure. It's not like any of us are getting dividends from this. Half the money going out is probably a laundering scheme anyway. Those wheels were probably in motion long before Trump took office.
So when you ask that question, my genuine answer is I don't know. I will say that I would much rather give billions to a country like Israel than I would a country like Iran.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15006954]I have no idea. It would probably be impossible to measure. It's not like any of us are getting dividends from this. Half the money going out is probably a laundering scheme anyway. Those wheels were probably in motion long before Trump took office.
So when you ask that question, my genuine answer is I don't know. I will say that I would much rather give billions to a country like Israel than I would a country like Iran.[/QUOTE]
fair enough dude.
i just hope you realize the extent to which israel has a vice grip on our government and the way our elected officials are corrupted and compromised by the israel lobby and therefore prioritize that country's interests over ours - not just in regard to money. that's just the [I]tip[/I] of the iceberg.
a true america first agenda would not and does not support this.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15006937]I didn't vote for Harris because she's a corporate stooge, same as Trump. The rest is you screaming about the voices in your head. You still haven't realized both parties are screwing us. Maybe one day you'll be smart enough to see it.[/QUOTE]
Well I don't consider MAGA as part of the old GOP because it's basically it's own party now.
Trump all but ousted all the previous power players in the party. Whoever remained from the old guard has basically cozied up to the democrats at this point. So you have the old uni-party establishment and you have MAGA.
MAGA has only been going strong for what... 9 years now? What have they done that's so bad that's even remotely comparable to what the uni-party has done?
Give me your worst example. Be specific.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15006928]Absolutely not. I don't care if you didn't vote for The Cackler, you were clearly pulling for her to win and you were emotionally invested in her victory.
I remember how you acted when Trump got that first mugshot taken. You were the happiest you'd ever been. I refuse to believe you were totally indifferent to the election results.
Election night 2024 was a VERY bad night for you, no doubt.[/QUOTE]
R3tard said over a year ago that he'd vote for AOC if she was running. Looks like he'll get his chance in 2028 to prove how dumb he really is.
Then again, an [I]alleged[/I] hard core anarchist like he claims to be wouldn't give a shit who was president.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15006960]Well I don't consider MAGA as part of the old GOP because it's basically it's own party now.
Trump all but ousted all the previous power players in the party. Whoever remained from the old guard has basically cozied up to the democrats at this point. So you have the old uni-party establishment and you have MAGA.
MAGA has only been going strong for what... 9 years now? What have they done that's so bad that's even remotely comparable to what the uni-party has done?
Give me your worst example. Be specific.[/QUOTE]
Uh seriously?
[url]https://www.epi.org/publication/100-days-100-ways-trump-hurt-workers/[/url]
[url]https://www.americanprogress.org/article/trump-just-cut-the-minimum-wage-for-hundreds-of-thousands-of-private-sector-workers/[/url]
There's a good chance I don't agree with everything stated in these articles btw (I did not read every single of the 100 points, but enough to get the picture for sure, I don't expect you to read the entire thing either to be fair, just enough so you get what I'm saying) so don't try and claim that I do, it's just a good overview of stuff he did that proves he's not for the working man.
Do your research, Trump is the same ol' same ol' you just think he's different cuz he says he is and you take him at his word.
This is also the guy currently bombing Yemen and funding a genocide in Palestine and claiming to be anti war :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Baller234;15006960]Well I don't consider MAGA as part of the old GOP because it's basically it's own party now.
[B]Trump all but ousted all the previous power players in the party. Whoever remained from the old guard has basically cozied up to the democrats at this point. [U]So you have the old uni-party establishment and you have MAGA.[/U][/B]
MAGA has only been going strong for what... 9 years now? [B]What have they done that's so bad that's even remotely comparable to what the uni-party has done? [/B]
Give me your worst example. Be specific.[/QUOTE]
i agree 100%.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15006969]Uh seriously?
[url]https://www.epi.org/publication/100-days-100-ways-trump-hurt-workers/[/url]
[url]https://www.americanprogress.org/article/trump-just-cut-the-minimum-wage-for-hundreds-of-thousands-of-private-sector-workers/[/url]
There's a good chance I don't agree with everything stated in these articles btw so don't try and claim that I do, it's just a good overview of stuff he did that proves he's not for the working man.
Do your research, Trump is the same ol' same ol' you just think he's different cuz he says he is and you take him at his word.
This is also the guy currently bombing Yemen and funding a genocide in Palestine and claiming to be anti war :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
It never fails. It really NEVER fails. :oldlol:
You ask a woke lefty to make sense of their own argument and defend their own position, but 99 out of 100 times they cowardly retreat behind some random link to some random opinion editorial they desperately sought out on Google.
"Do your research"... says 3tard as he doesn't even bother to argue from a place of knowledge or expertise. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Baller234;15006977]It never fails. It really NEVER fails. :oldlol:
You ask a woke lefty to make sense of their own argument and defend their own position, but 99 out of 100 times they cowardly retreat behind some random link to some random opinion editorial they desperately sought out on Google.
"Do your research"... says 3tard as he doesn't even bother to argue from a place of knowledge or expertise. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
I mean it wouldn't take you long to read a few points, they include links and are backed up with information. You don't have to read the whole thing, just a handful of points until you get what I'm saying. And of course I'm sure there is some stuff you don't think is bad in there, but surely you have to admit some of that is bad for workers?
Besides I brought up the Yemen and Palestine stuff without any links did I not? How is spending money on bombing the middle east benefitting the working class?
[QUOTE=RRR3;15006979]I mean it wouldn't take you long to read a few points, they include links and are backed up with information. You don't have to read the whole thing, just a handful of points until you get what I'm saying. And of course I'm sure there is some stuff you don't think is bad in there, but surely you have to admit some of that is bad for workers?
Besides I brought up the Yemen and Palestine stuff without any links did I not? How is spending money on bombing the middle east benefitting the working class?[/QUOTE]
I would never make a declarative statement if I didn't already have the knowledge or know what I was going to say. If you asked me to list off ten reasons why I voted for Trump, I could tell you easily without having to search on Google. If you asked me to list ten reasons why the democrats are corrupt and evil, I could reel off those examples off the top of my head.
You said that the MAGA party was just as evil as the uni-party and that they were screwing over everyday americans just the same, so surely when you said that you must have had examples in mind. Yet when pressed for those examples, you had to retreat to Google and outsource your own argument.
It's just a really strange way to engage in debate.
"Here's this random opinion I found online which proves I'm right"... isn't an argument.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15006980]I would never make a declarative statement if I didn't already have the knowledge or know what I was going to say. If you asked me to list off ten reasons why I voted for Trump, I could tell you easily without having to search on Google. If you asked me to list ten reasons why the democrats are corrupt and evil, I could reel off those examples off the top of my head.
You said that the MAGA party was just as evil as the uni-party and that they were screwing over everyday americans just the same, so surely when you said that you must have had examples in mind. Yet when pressed for those examples, you had to retreat to Google and outsource your own argument.
It's just a really strange way to engage in debate.
"Here's this random opinion I found online which proves I'm right"... isn't an argument.[/QUOTE]
That article isn't an opinion though, it's listing factual stuff Trump did :hammerhead: This is also hilarious because when I DO give you my own opinions you get mad and want me to back it up. Now that I back it up it's bad? :wtf:
So cutting the minimum wage for thousands of workers is good for workers? Limiting collective bargaining agreements is good for workers? Let's just focus on these two since you don't want to read the whole article (not an insult, I get not wanting to read a long ass article)
I'm aware of the reasons you like Trump, but at least be honest and don't claim he's helping the working class. Things have gotten more expensive, and he promised to lower that, and there is no sign of that either. He's doing nothing to get us public healthcare or raise the minimum wage or give workers more rights (the opposite in fact as you see in those articles). You can love Trump if you want, just don't claim he's helping the working class.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15006984]That article isn't an opinion though, it's listing factual stuff Trump did :hammerhead: This is also hilarious because when I DO give you my own opinions you get mad and want me to back it up. Now that I back it up it's bad? :wtf:
So cutting the minimum wage for thousands of workers is good for workers? Limiting collective bargaining agreements is good for workers? Let's just focus on these two since you don't want to read the whole article (not an insult, I get not wanting to read a long ass article)
I'm aware of the reasons you like Trump, but at least be honest and don't claim he's helping the working class. Things have gotten more expensive, and he promised to lower that, and there is no sign of that either. He's doing nothing to get us public healthcare or raise the minimum wage or give workers more rights (the opposite in fact as you see in those articles). You can love Trump if you want, just don't claim he's helping the working class.[/QUOTE]
So let me get this straight.
Donald Trump not being able to deliver a $30 minimum wage and free healthcare in his 4.5 years as president means he's just as evil as the democrats?
The democrats that lied about the origin of Covid and assured us it definitely didn't come from a lab? The democrats that demanded we shut down our thriving economy? The greatest transfer of wealth from bottom to top in recent memory?
Wait you seriously think Trump is for public healthcare or raising the minimum wage?
[QUOTE=RRR3;15006997]Wait you seriously think Trump is for public healthcare or raising the minimum wage?[/QUOTE]
You said "both parties are screwing us" the same.
Well one party, the uni-party, went to great lengths to intentionally deceive the public on a number of important things. Not only that, but we're only in this recession to begin with because the uni-party demanded we put a halt on our thriving economy. Saving lives was more important they said. That's why you weren't allowed to go paddle boarding by yourself in the middle of the lake. We had no choice but to shut down the world for a year and print trillions of dollars.
I asked you to draw an equivalent on the Trump side, and this is what you bring to the table? Minimum wage and universal healthcare? That makes him and the MAGA party just as bad as the democrats? How? What good is minimum wage means if you explode inflation?
The uni-party lied to you about Covid, shut down the country and reduced your total financial worth by about 30%. Not to mention the other countless unspeakable things they did like mandate vaccines, endorse violent riots, cover up for Brandon's age, enable "genocide" as you say... lol.
So tell me, aside from the "genocide enabling" thing which clearly the uni-party is also guilty of, what exactly did Trump do that compares? What makes him just as bad?
Please be specific.
First of all, you already got answers. You didn't like them and threw a tantrum, but it's not my fault you think union busting and ****ing over workers pay and benefits is good actually. You also can't just gloss over the Israel and Yemen stuff, or the way he's destroying the climate. You keep saying "uniparty" as if Trump isn't part of the Republican party (and a former Democrat btw) who has consistently been buddy buddy with career neocons like Bill Barr, Mike Pence and most recently JD Vance, just off the top of my head. Not to mention the fact that he's getting the support of all his billionaire buddies, but sure he's not on the side of the elite, Musk, Bezos and Zuckerburg just randomly pledged fealty to him for no reason.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15007017]First of all, you already got answers. You didn't like them and threw a tantrum, but it's not my fault you think union busting and ****ing over workers pay and benefits is good actually. You also can't just gloss over the Israel and Yemen stuff, or the way he's destroying the climate. You keep saying "uniparty" as if Trump isn't part of the Republican party (and a former Democrat btw) who has consistently been buddy buddy with career neocons like Bill Barr, Mike Pence and most recently JD Vance, just off the top of my head. Not to mention the fact that he's getting the support of all his billionaire buddies, but sure he's not on the side of the elite, Musk, Bezos and Zuckerburg just randomly pledged fealty to him for no reason.[/QUOTE]
translation. I need to get paid a living wage by shelving books on the governments dime, same government I say are nazi
[QUOTE=RRR3;15007017]First of all, you already got answers. You didn't like them and threw a tantrum, but it's not my fault you think union busting and ****ing over workers pay and benefits is good actually. You also can't just gloss over the Israel and Yemen stuff, or the way he's destroying the climate. You keep saying "uniparty" as if Trump isn't part of the Republican party (and a former Democrat btw) who has consistently been buddy buddy with career neocons like Bill Barr, Mike Pence and most recently JD Vance, just off the top of my head. Not to mention the fact that he's getting the support of all his billionaire buddies, but sure he's not on the side of the elite, Musk, Bezos and Zuckerburg just randomly pledged fealty to him for no reason.[/QUOTE]
you need to learn to set realistic expectations and stop living in fantasyland. bernie sanders isn't president. sorry.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15007017]First of all, you already got answers. You didn't like them and threw a tantrum, but it's not my fault you think union busting and ****ing over workers pay and benefits is good actually. You also can't just gloss over the Israel and Yemen stuff, or the way he's destroying the climate. You keep saying "uniparty" as if Trump isn't part of the Republican party (and a former Democrat btw) who has consistently been buddy buddy with career neocons like Bill Barr, Mike Pence and most recently JD Vance, just off the top of my head. Not to mention the fact that he's getting the support of all his billionaire buddies, but sure he's not on the side of the elite, Musk, Bezos and Zuckerburg just randomly pledged fealty to him for no reason.[/QUOTE]
Those tech billionaires bent the knee because they had no choice. Trump won. The people had spoken.
Trump was an outsider when he first ran in 2015. He is not the guy the leaders of the party wanted. Paul Ryan? Mitch McConnell? Lol you think they wanted Trump? Nah, Jeb was their guy. Trump basically went to war with Ryan and forced him into exile. Why? Because the people backed Trump. The party had been totally reinvented. Even the demographics had changed. Racial demographics, income demographics... Trump gained ground with a lot of different groups that had never voted republican before. Myself included.
The MAGA party was not born out of the Bush era GOP, it's an entirely different party. In fact not only did Cheney endorse Harris, she actually gloated when it happened. She went on speaking tours with his daughter. Liz Cheney went on The View and got a hero's welcome.
If that doesn't tell you that Trump was up against a uni-party I don't know what does. For someone who claims to be an anarchist that hates government, I'm shocked you're so eager to oppose the first anti-establishment president we've had in our lifetime.
You are cherrypicking Liz Cheney as if the majority of republicans didn't go for Trump still, and even if they didn't, the Democrats are also a conservative party so....? You get that both parties are bad but somehow Trump is exempt from this despite all the bad stuff he's done to the working class and the Middle East. Idk, I tried, I just can't argue with someone who refuses to listen though.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15007053]You are cherrypicking Liz Cheney as if the majority of republicans didn't go for Trump still, and even if they didn't, the Democrats are also a conservative party so....? You get that both parties are bad but somehow Trump is exempt from this despite all the bad stuff he's done to the working class and the Middle East. Idk, I tried, I just can't argue with someone who refuses to listen though.[/QUOTE]
who would you rather have in office - trump or a gop neocon like john mccain or a liz cheney? something in that vein. pick your poison rrr3. entertain us.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15007053]You are cherrypicking Liz Cheney as if the majority of republicans didn't go for Trump still, and even if they didn't, the Democrats are also a conservative party so....? You get that both parties are bad but somehow Trump is exempt from this despite all the bad stuff he's done to the working class and the Middle East. Idk, I tried, I just can't argue with someone who refuses to listen though.[/QUOTE]
Look at how defensive you get at the mere suggestion that democrats might be worse than Trump.
You claim to be an unbiased party who hates both sides, but you would never ever rush to defend Trump like you do the democrats. When someone dares to suggest that Trump might be the lesser evil, you go into a frenzy.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15007058]Look at how defensive you get at the mere suggestion that democrats might be worse than Trump.
You claim to be an unbiased party who hates both sides, but you would never ever rush to defend Trump like you do the democrats. When someone dares to suggest that Trump might be the lesser evil, you go into a frenzy.[/QUOTE]
He's so fukkin shook right now :roll:
Some major seething.
rrr3 gun to your head - trump or cheney? think fast!
aww he signed off. the fun was just beginning. :(
[QUOTE=diamenz;15007067]rrr3 gun to your head - trump or cheney? think fast![/QUOTE]
Basically no difference, both are neo cons and are hostile to the working class...only Trump lies blatantly that he's not.
I’m taking the bullet to the head if the options are Trump or Cheney. People have forgotten how much Cheney paved the way for Trump.
[QUOTE=TheMan;15007159]Basically no difference, both are neo cons and are hostile to the working class...only Trump lies blatantly that he's not.[/QUOTE]
Yes but this is ISH where people are dumb enough to believe the guy busting unions is for the working man.
[QUOTE=TheMan;15007159]Basically no difference, both are neo cons and are hostile to the working class...only Trump lies blatantly that he's not.[/QUOTE]
Dick Cheney didn't lie?
[IMG]https://media3.giphy.com/media/J2DYCDA15pTau86IGr/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9528xg3dbkx235jl3t1hfywxr700qb1guqiy6rlu7ax&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/IMG]
[QUOTE=RRR3;15007170]Yes but this is ISH where people are dumb enough to believe the guy busting unions is for the working man.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget he's bombing Yemen, wants to go to war with Iran, wants to make Gaza a hotel destination and did more drone strikes, like a lot more than Obama, whom Trump criticized for using drone strikes, but he's the anti-war president, remember?
[QUOTE=TheMan;15007159]Basically no difference, both are neo cons and are hostile to the working class...only Trump lies blatantly that he's not.[/QUOTE]
it's not the difference that you want but no - there's definitely a difference.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15007174]Dick Cheney didn't lie?
[IMG]https://media3.giphy.com/media/J2DYCDA15pTau86IGr/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9528xg3dbkx235jl3t1hfywxr700qb1guqiy6rlu7ax&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I needed to be more specific, Cheney lied us into war, Trump's lies that he's anti-war but also lies about being for the average Joe...Cheney never tried to claim he's a populist.
[QUOTE=TheMan;15007175]Don't forget he's bombing Yemen, wants to go to war with Iran, wants to make Gaza a hotel destination and did more drone strikes, like a lot more than Obama, whom Trump criticized for using drone strikes, but he's the anti-war president, remember?[/QUOTE]
i think behind the scenes trump is fed up with bibi and his spoiled attitude. bibi is used to getting everything from the us on a silver platter and he's not getting it. bibi is missing biden. trump's already told him no to a war with iran. you think a neocon would do that?
[QUOTE=TheMan;15007180]I needed to be more specific, Cheney lied us into war, Trump's lies that he's anti-war but also lies about being for the average Joe...Cheney never tried to claim he's a populist.[/QUOTE]
Cheney lied us to into a WAR you say? Geez, that sounds pretty bad.
When has Orange Face ever lied us into a war?
[QUOTE=diamenz;15007178]it's not the difference that you want but no - there's definitely a difference.[/QUOTE]
How? Trump is bombing Yemen and had a lot more drone strikes than Obama, he's also threatening war with Iran, which would be disastrous. That's not how an anti-war president acts. He's never been anti-war, he says it because that's what y'all want to hear after GWB's awful military interventions and Obama keeping the status quo in the ME
[QUOTE=TheMan;15007190]How? Trump is bombing Yemen and had a lot more drone strikes than Obama, he's also threatening war with Iran, which would be disastrous. That's not how an anti-war president acts. He's never been anti-war, he says it because that's what y'all want to hear after GWB's awful military interventions and Obama keeping the status quo in the ME[/QUOTE]
are we at war with iran? when we're in a hot war with iran then by all means, fire away at me and i'll fold.
trump doesn't fully understand the yemen situation because he still has too many bad advisors in his ear.
if trump brings peace to ukraine, will you still complain? if he holds bibi at bay will you complain? you're jumping the gun here and that's all i have to say about that.