Two Israeli embassy staffers killed by a Pro-Palestian

[QUOTE=RRR3;15008645]No I explained the difference in the reactions people had and why it was that way. Nowhere did I say murder is justified, you are putting words in my mouth.[/QUOTE]

You said, and I quote: "Sure you can argue killing is wrong"

You cannot argue over something that will always be wrong, no matter what. By you saying what you said, you're allowing yourself and the other readers to find an avenue in which one could argue that killing is somehow morally justified.

Let's be clear, the only acceptable time where you would be in a place to kill someone is if your own very life was in danger. This Mangione clown thought he was a vigilante or some kind of freedom fighter. His life was never in danger from UH's CEO. He shot him in the back for fame, and now he's going to spend the rest of his life in jail.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15008649]You said, and I quote: "Sure you can argue killing is wrong"

You cannot argue over something that will always be wrong, no matter what. By you saying what you said, you're allowing yourself and the other readers to find an avenue in which one could argue that killing is somehow morally justified.

Let's be clear, the only acceptable time where you would be in a place to kill someone is if your own very life was in danger. This Mangione clown thought he was a vigilante or some kind of freedom fighter. His life was never in danger from UH's CEO. He shot him in the back for fame, and now he's going to spend the rest of his life in jail.[/QUOTE]
Would killing Netanyahu be wrong, fats?

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15008514]I don't know the perfect system. But I do know, and you seem to agree, that the current model is fvcked up. That's a start.

Enough people speaking up about this can affect actual change amongst people way smarter than I am.

Off the top of my head though, could treat insurance companies as federal franchise programs run by government-paid (handsomely paid) executives. They must adhere to a specific set of regulations regarding claim payment and premium pricing, but how they go about it from an overhead, marketing, headcount standpoint is completely up to them. There could be quarterly reports/audits and all they would have to do stay running is to break even, and because of a set wage for these individuals there is no incentive to increase profits further.

I don't know. Just off the top of my head. Of course more thought on that would have to be put in.[/QUOTE]

Sorry but this answer isn't going to cut it. You're over here making all kinds of accusations about all kinds of people, how people are selfish for supporting the current system and blah blah... but you offer no viable solution of your own.

How the hell is an insurance company supposed to put away reserves for future payouts if they aren't allowed to operate on profit? You're over here complaining that they don't pay out enough claims but at the same time you want to cut them at the knees financially? You sound almost as ridiculous as 3tard here.

I mean how are these companies supposed to reinvest into the businesses? How can they ever improve or innovate if the government is regulating every penny they earn?

Also, if the insurance companies are run by government officials, nothing changes. Those execs still have to stay under budget and make cuts all the same. What, you think the government is just gonna let them give away all the money? Of course not, they're gonna cut back on services as well because they have to stay solvent. At least a privately owned company is beholden to the paying customer and not the government.

I really don't think you thought this through. I think like most progressive woke leftists, you're striving for an impossible utopia that could never exist and isn't practical.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;15008530]A bit ironic, that you rightwingers attacked big pharma during covid for manipulating the public, but it's absolute ok that a insurance company lobby implemented a narrative that m4a is communism. Atleast be some sort of coherent.[/QUOTE]

WTF does being against big pharma have to do with supporting medicare for all? :oldlol:

3tard is a shoe-in for Most Retarded Poster (MRP), but you're definitely making a strong case for All-Retard 1st Team on ISH.

[QUOTE=RRR3;15008651]Would killing Netanyahu be wrong, fats?[/QUOTE]

If someone went up to Netanyahu and killed him, yes, it would be wrong.

[QUOTE=RRR3;15008511]You realized that source included a Koch funded institute study that found it would save us money yes? Do you think the Kochs are commies?[/QUOTE]

Dude, just stop.

You've already shown an alarming amount of ignorance. The fact that you even thought it was possible for billionaires to fund our way of life for every citizen, the fact that you even spoke it into existence in an honest attempt to sound intelligent... maybe you should show some humility and sit the fukk down.

Maybe you don't have all the answers and you should stop pretending you're this enlightened thinker who's better and more compassionate than everyone.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15008662]If someone went up to Netanyahu and killed him, yes, it would be wrong.[/QUOTE]
Why? He's committing a genocide. He's on the same moral level as someone like Pol Pot. Monsters.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008663]Dude, just stop.

You've already shown an alarming amount of ignorance. The fact that you even thought it was possible for billionaires to fund our way of life for every citizen, the fact that you even spoke it into existence in an honest attempt to sound intelligent... maybe you should show some humility and sit the fukk down.

Maybe you don't have all the answers and you should stop pretending you're this enlightened thinker who's better and more compassionate than everyone.[/QUOTE]
You wrote a lot to deflect from the fact that you can't refute that m4A is better than our current system and would save us money :lol

You are incapable of ceding a point, another sign of sociopathy....

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008653]Sorry but this answer isn't going to cut it. You're over here making all kinds of accusations about all kinds of people, how people are selfish for supporting the current system and blah blah... but you offer no viable solution of your own.

How the hell is an insurance company supposed to put away reserves for future payouts if they aren't allowed to operate on profit? You're over here complaining that they don't pay out enough claims but at the same time you want to cut them at the knees financially? You sound almost as ridiculous as 3tard here.

I mean how are these companies supposed to reinvest into the businesses? How can they ever improve or innovate if the government is regulating every penny they earn?

Also, if the insurance companies are run by government officials, nothing changes. Those execs still have to stay under budget and make cuts all the same. What, you think the government is just gonna let them give away all the money? Of course not, they're gonna cut back on services as well because they have to stay solvent. At least a privately owned company is beholden to the paying customer and not the government.

I really don't think you thought this through. I think like most progressive woke leftists, you're striving for an impossible utopia that could never exist and isn't practical.[/QUOTE]

For starters..I don't really think you understood the point of what I just said. Is my literal two minute off the dome proposal going to cover the entire scope of this? Of course not. Good on you for missing the point, as you have a talent for doing. I said, and I quote (thank you thank you):

[QUOTE]I don't know the perfect system. But I do know, and you seem to agree, that the current model is fvcked up. That's a start.

Enough people speaking up about this can affect actual change amongst people way smarter than I am.[/QUOTE]

So whatever. I don't fvcking know dude but it's not really a utopian thing either. Specific systematic model changes have occurred. I'm not saying tear the whole government down or some shit.

[QUOTE]Also, if the insurance companies are run by government officials, nothing changes. Those execs still have to stay under budget and make cuts all the same. What, you think the government is just gonna let them give away all the money?[/QUOTE]

Missing the point again. I could go back and forth with constructive edits to what I initially said..but what good would that do with you.

[QUOTE=RRR3;15008666]You wrote a lot to deflect from the fact that you can't refute that m4A is better than our current system and would save us money :lol

You are incapable of ceding a point, another sign of sociopathy....[/QUOTE]

We should fund m4a with the money tree in Warren Buffet's tomato garden, and we should keep a huge bucket in front of Jeff Bezos's mansion to collect all the money that falls from the sky.

I'm being sarcastic of course but this is actually 3tard's brilliant plan to fund universal healthcare. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=RRR3;15008664]Why? He's committing a genocide. He's on the same moral level as someone like Pol Pot. Monsters.[/QUOTE]

He's defending his country. He's in a war the Palestinians started.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15008675]He's defending his country. He's in a war the Palestinians started.[/QUOTE]

:applause:

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008674]We should fund m4a with the money tree in Warren Buffet's tomato garden, and we should keep a huge bucket in front of Jeff Bezos's mansion to collect all the money that falls from the sky.

I'm being sarcastic of course but this is was actually 3tard's brilliant plan to fund universal healthcare. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Why can't you stop deflecting? You got exposed as not knowing m4a is cheaper than our current system. So you're just gonna troll when you're proven wrong?

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15008675]He's defending his country. He's in a war the Palestinians started.[/QUOTE]
First of all, like I already said the goal of Israel has been stated to just completely wipe Gaza off the map regardless of Hamas. How is that defending the country? How is starving an entire population including children defending the country?

This is ignoring that the conflict was started by Israel before you were even born, and that Netanyahu himself funded Hamas to make sure left wing groups in Palestine didn't gain prominence.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15008671]For starters..I don't really think you understood the point of what I just said. Is my literal two minute off the dome proposal going to cover the entire scope of this? Of course not. Good on you for missing the point, as you have a talent for doing. I said, and I quote (thank you thank you):



So whatever. I don't fvcking know dude but it's not really a utopian thing either. Specific systematic model changes have occurred. I'm not saying tear the whole government down or some shit.



Missing the point again. I could go back and forth with constructive edits to what I initially said..but what good would that do with you.[/QUOTE]

"Hey you're like missing the point mannn. You're being selfish mannn...."

"The current system is unfair mannn. All my ideas are illogical and stupid but something has to change mannn..."

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15008676]:applause:[/QUOTE]
You're pro Israel now?

[QUOTE=RRR3;15008677]Why can't you stop deflecting? You got exposed as not knowing m4a is cheaper than our current system. So you're just gonna troll when you're proven wrong?[/QUOTE]

You wanted to tax all the billionaires at 100%.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008681]You wanted to tax all the billionaires at 100%.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
If you're going to refuse to stop trolling you will be ignored. Like, yes, we should tax the unholy shit out of people making that much money if capitalism is going to continue. But that's not even what I'm talking about now. Talk about m4a costing less

[QUOTE=RRR3;15008680]You're pro Israel now?[/QUOTE]

Just a joke. Clapping at an elementary talking point that we're all way past at this point.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15008683]Just a joke. Clapping at an elementary talking point that we're all way past at this point.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah no doubt. I'll give Chewing this at least he's changing the subject when I have information he doesn't like unlike a certain somebody.

[QUOTE=RRR3;15008682]If you're going to refuse to stop trolling you will be ignored. Like, yes, we should tax the unholy shit out of people making that much money if capitalism is going to continue. But that's not even what I'm talking about now. Talk about m4a costing less[/QUOTE]

[B]3tard:[/B]

"Hey I know I began this debate by advocating for something totally delusional and retarded but can we move on please and focus on something else now?..."

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15008556]It's weird how hard it is for some of you to say that yeah, murder is bad. Period.[/QUOTE]

Aren't you the guy that continuesly threatened to shoot up libs with his guns?

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008657]WTF does being against big pharma have to do with supporting medicare for all? :oldlol:

3tard is a shoe-in for Most Retarded Poster (MRP), but you're definitely making a strong case for All-Retard 1st Team on ISH.[/QUOTE]

I already told you abstract thinking isn't yours. Kenny, you're good at writing nice posts, but you succumb to the simplest logic fallacies while being dishonest and manipulative.

I'll lay it out for you in simplest possible language:

During covid - right wingers:
Vaccine bad. Big pharma agenda. Objective: Gain money. Politics = corp shills.
Overall medical crisis ongoing for decades:
Rightwingers parroting insurrance corp agenda. Policy that would leave insurrancies with less money and help people = bad, communism.

If that's still too much:

Topic A: Corps bad. We're for the ppl.
Topic B: We parrot corp agenda. F the ppl.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;15008706]Aren't you the guy that continuesly threatened to shoot up libs with his guns?



I already told you abstract thinking isn't yours. Kenny, you're good at writing nice posts, but you succumb to the simplest logic fallacies while being dishonest and manipulative.

I'll lay it out for you in simplest possible language:

During covid - right wingers:
Vaccine bad. Big pharma agenda. Objective: Gain money. Politics = corp shills.
Overall medical crisis ongoing for decades:
Rightwingers parroting insurrance corp agenda. Policy that would leave insurrancies with less money and help people = bad, communism.

If that's still too much:

Topic A: Corps bad. We're for the ppl.
Topic B: We parrot corp agenda. F the ppl.[/QUOTE]

You're aware that the big pharma companies and the insurance companies are separate entities right?

So according to you, the ONLY way to rein in big pharma is to hand over control of our entire healthcare system to the government? :oldlol:

All-Retard 1st Team selection confirmed. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008679]"Hey you're like missing the point mannn. You're being selfish mannn...."

"The current system is unfair mannn. All my ideas are illogical and stupid but something has to change mannn..."

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

You’re truly impossible…mannn

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15008739]You’re truly impossible…mannn[/QUOTE]

Lol, more like your proposals are impossible mannnn.

As with most lefties, whether it's healthcare or something else, you argue there's some huge problem that needs fixing but you can never provide a viable alternative solution. It's always some delusional pipe dream that can't work and isn't practical.

There is no perfect system when it comes to health insurance but capitalism and the free market is the best option we have. If you want to reduce pricing and improve services, then introduce more companies into the sphere and let competition take it's natural course. Obviously I'm okay with government regulation if it's in the interest of the consumer, but I definitely don't want the government in charge of my healthcare in totality.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008740]Lol, more like your proposals are impossible mannnn.

As with most lefties, whether it's healthcare or something else, you argue there's some huge problem that needs fixing but you can never provide a viable alternative solution. It's always some delusional pipe dream that can't work and isn't practical.

There is no perfect system when it comes to health insurance but capitalism and the free market is the best option we have. If you want to reduce pricing and improve services, then introduce more companies into the sphere and let competition take it's natural course. Obviously I'm okay with government regulation if it's in the interest of the consumer, but I definitely don't want the government in charge of my healthcare in totality.[/QUOTE]

Ahhhh you said mannn one too many times. You know that you're incredibly cringey, right? Get a new gif too for christsakes :lol

But fine, I'll address your critique even though I know it's a waste of time because you've never once shown that you are able or willing to grasp anything that I say. Got about 15 minutes before my wife and I meet some friends at the pool so..fvck it.

[QUOTE]How the hell is an insurance company supposed to put away reserves for future payouts if they aren't allowed to operate on profit?[/QUOTE]

Two things wrong here:

1) Maybe you forgot about premiums? No one is saying healthcare should be free. Or at least thinks that it [I]can[/I] be. Like tax brackets, premiums based on income. You can claim that that's not fair and I'll listen (it's what adults do when figuring out solutions).
2) I didn't say they aren't allowed to operate on profit. I said because that those running these companies aren't paid based on profits, that they aren't [I]incentivized[/I] to operate this way. Once again, you're twisting things and seeing only what you want to see.

That's not to say anyone off the streets could start one of these companies. You'd obviously have to be qualified, and salary could be based on the number insured with you. So with that you aren't incentivized to operate solely for profit, but you are incentivized to operate [B]well[/B] to attract more customers.

[QUOTE]You're over here complaining that they don't pay out enough claims but at the same time you want to cut them at the knees financially? [/QUOTE]

Addressed. They're not being cut at the knees financially, but having to adhere to a strict set of rules regarding payout.

[QUOTE]I mean how are these companies supposed to reinvest into the businesses? How can they ever improve or innovate if the government is regulating every penny they earn?[/QUOTE]

Addressed with my previous. Profit for personal wealth not mattering means that this would go toward reinvestments, improvement, innovation, etc. to make things more user-friendly and efficient.

[QUOTE]Also, if the insurance companies are run by government officials[/QUOTE]

Didn't say that. A franchise owner in any business has the freedom to operate as they please as long as a certain set of rules are followed.

[QUOTE]What, you think the government is just gonna let them give away all the money? [/QUOTE]

That's why I said they aren't allowed to operate if they don't break even...

Hell, lets call it 1.5% above.

[QUOTE]I really don't think you thought this through.[/QUOTE]

No, I didn't. In fact I told you that I came up with it on the spot and already stated that coming up the best solutions for complex problems takes a village. And compromise (not your thing, I know). Is this the perfect solution? Of course not. But enough people addressing the issue can start enough conversations to where a happy medium can be found.

[QUOTE=RRR3;15008678]First of all, like I already said the goal of Israel has been stated to just completely wipe Gaza off the map regardless of Hamas. How is that defending the country? How is starving an entire population including children defending the country?

This is ignoring that the conflict was started by Israel before you were even born, and that Netanyahu himself funded Hamas to make sure left wing groups in Palestine didn't gain prominence.[/QUOTE]

If Israel wanted Gaza wiped off the map, they would have done so already.

And so no one forgets, it is the Palestinians that have shouted that they want Israel wiped off the map. Not the other way around.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;15008706]Aren't you the guy that continuesly threatened to shoot up libs with his guns?
[/QUOTE]

And isn't it Liberals who time and time again ACTUALLY go out and kill people they don't agree with?

The mentally fragile Left. They accuse the Right of being Nazis, but yet they go around hunting and killing Jews. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008733]You're aware that the big pharma companies and the insurance companies are separate entities right?

So according to you, the ONLY way to rein in big pharma is to hand over control of our entire healthcare system to the government? :oldlol:

All-Retard 1st Team selection confirmed. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

It's seriously impossible to have a discussion with you. Any more words into your direction are absolute futile as you are either incapable of understanding what is said to you or you purposefully draw conclusions to warp the argument. I knew you wouldn't even be able to grasp the Topic A and B thing.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;15008757]It's seriously impossible to have a discussion with you. Any more words into your direction are absolute futile as you are either incapable of understanding what is said to you or you purposefully draw conclusions to warp the argument. I knew you wouldn't even be able to grasp the Topic A and B thing.[/QUOTE]
When he doesn’t have a counter he resorts to trolling.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15008753]And isn't it Liberals who time and time again ACTUALLY go out and kill people they don't agree with?

The mentally fragile Left. They accuse the Right of being Nazis, but yet they go around hunting and killing Jews. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

The Left stands on business whereas you only posture online anonymously.

In reality you're a 400lb lard ass that would get bullied by a purple hair trans woman:pimp:

@Shawkfactory

I could respond to every ridiculous thing you said but I’ll save us both the time and address this following argument you made because it cuts right to the heart of the issue.


[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15008742]I didn't say they aren't allowed to operate on profit. I said because that those running these companies aren't paid based on profits, that they aren't [I]incentivized[/I] to operate this way. Once again, you're twisting things and seeing only what you want to see.[/quote]

This right here is proof you view the world through the lens of some fantasy utopia.

Nobody runs a company unless they intend to profit. In order for a company to be self sustaining, it needs to be profitable. The same thing applies to the person managing the company. If you run a business but your business manager is losing you money, would you keep that person on staff???

The moment you remove a profit incentive or a cost cutting incentive, the business ceases to operate. What you are referring to is not business, it is charity. You want healthcare to be one giant charity. Not only that, you don't want there to be any requirements or standards. Millions of illegals pour in? They get healthcare. Crackhead mom wants to have 6 more kids? They get healthcare. Obese doordash addicts? They get healthcare.

How is this model sustainable???

[QUOTE=Overdrive;15008757]It's seriously impossible to have a discussion with you. Any more words into your direction are absolute futile as you are either incapable of understanding what is said to you or you purposefully draw conclusions to warp the argument. I knew you wouldn't even be able to grasp the Topic A and B thing.[/QUOTE]

No you're just a moron trying to equate two different things that have no connection to one another.

It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of big pharma AND your idea for magical commie healthcare. The two don't go hand and hand at all.

If you understood why, you wouldn't have been selected to 1st team.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008894]No you're just a moron trying to equate two different things that have no connection to one another.

It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of big pharma AND your idea for magical commie healthcare. The two don't go hand and hand at all.

If you understood why, you wouldn't have been selected to 1st team.[/QUOTE]

So magical it's been working in western Europe for decades. The thing threatening it are neo liberal reaganomics disciples, who - who would've thought - are close to private insurance corps. The US is a corp ruled, plutocratic 3rd world shithole with money, that's why you'll never get any non corporate perspective on things, but keep on draining the swamp.

You thinking it's magical just goes to show how uneducated you are on a larger scale. This was my last post aimed at you itt or in general even. A pigeon is better suited to have a conversation with. So spare me another answer, it's BS anyway.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008892]@Shawkfactory

I could respond to every ridiculous thing you said but I’ll save us both the time and address this following argument you made because it cuts right to the heart of the issue.




This right here is proof you view the world through the lens of some fantasy utopia.

Nobody runs a company unless they intend to profit. In order for a company to be self sustaining, it needs to be profitable. The same thing applies to the person managing the company. If you run a business but your business manager is losing you money, would you keep that person on staff???

The moment you remove a profit incentive or a cost cutting incentive, the business ceases to operate. What you are referring to is not business, it is charity. You want healthcare to be one giant charity. Not only that, you don't want there to be any requirements or standards. Millions of illegals pour in? They get healthcare. Crackhead mom wants to have 6 more kids? They get healthcare. Obese doordash addicts? They get healthcare.

How is this model sustainable???[/QUOTE]

Yep…that’s about what I expected.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15008911]Yep…that’s about what I expected.[/QUOTE]

What a coward and a joke you are. What, too much pride to admit that maybe you were wrong and your ideas aren't practical?

So you're telling us that if you owned a business, and the person you hired to manage the company was losing you money, you would keep that person on staff?

Please tell us the answer is yes so we can all see how smart you are.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008916]What a coward and a joke you are. What, too much pride to admit that maybe you were wrong and your ideas aren't practical?

So you're telling us that if you owned a business, and the person you hired to manage the company was losing you money, you would keep that person on staff?

Please tell us the answer is yes so we can all see how smart you are.[/QUOTE]

:roll:

Holy shit. I needed that one :lol

No, you’re just too dogmatic in your views that your are simply not grasping what I’m saying. Excusing myself from commenting further is then practical, not cowardly.

Pointless to discuss solutions with someone who doesn’t believe there’s a problem.

It’s your world and we just live in it. Apparently.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15008951]:roll:

Holy shit. I needed that one :lol

No, you’re just too dogmatic in your views that your are simply not grasping what I’m saying. Excusing myself from commenting further is then practical, not cowardly.

Pointless to discuss solutions with someone who doesn’t believe there’s a problem.

It’s your world and we just live in it. Apparently.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean I'm not grasping what you're saying?

You said in an ideal situation the person who manages the health insurance company shouldn't be incentivized by profit chasing or cost cutting. Did you not?

Okay, please tell me how that works.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15008953]What do you mean I'm not grasping what you're saying?

You said in an ideal situation the person who manages the health insurance company shouldn't be incentivized by profit chasing or cost cutting. Did you not?

Okay, please tell me how that works.[/QUOTE]

Bro…I already did explain it. Go back and read.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;15008908]So magical it's been working in western Europe for decades. The thing threatening it are neo liberal reaganomics disciples, who - who would've thought - are close to private insurance corps. The US is a corp ruled, plutocratic 3rd world shithole with money, that's why you'll never get any non corporate perspective on things, but keep on draining the swamp.

You thinking it's magical just goes to show how uneducated you are on a larger scale. This was my last post aimed at you itt or in general even. A pigeon is better suited to have a conversation with. So spare me another answer, it's BS anyway.[/QUOTE]
It's also cheaper than our current system.