BREAKING: Grizzlies Trade Bane to Magic

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15014893]No idea why you brought this up.

If you have a good front office you will get some good players out of 5 first round picks. You miss on all five first rounders your GM needs to be replaced.
Bane makes sense for 2 or 3 picks. 5 picks should be getting you a star. Overpaying for talent is never a good idea.[/QUOTE]

And which star are you getting that makes sense for Orlando and fits their time window and is available at 40 million? Bane's probably an all-star level player in the East and he's been the 3rd best at catch & shoot 3s since he's entered the league which is exactly what the Magic needed, and he's in the middle of his prime.

Also they didn't just get Bane, they got rid of KCP's horrible ass contract which you'd probably need to spend a pick on to get rid of anyway.

They sent out 5 first round picks. They could use all of them on shooters off they wanted to and none of them would have to be paid 40 million. But if they're willing to pay 40 mil per and give up 5 picks I suspect they could have found a way to get a real allstar and not just a guy you incorrectly assume is better than an EC allstar.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015083]They sent out 5 first round picks. They could use all of them on shooters off they wanted to and none of them would have to be paid 40 million. But if they're willing to pay 40 mil per and give up 5 picks I suspect they could have found a way to get a real allstar and not just a guy you incorrectly assume is better than an EC allstar.[/QUOTE]

Which players?

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15015089]Which players?[/QUOTE]
The deal is bad enough to say that they would be better off long- term with the 5 picks but if you are going to deal 4 firsts plus one pick swap you should be talking about an allstar. You should be talking to Phoenix about what/who they want back for Devin Booker, seeing if the Celtics would part with Jaylen Brown, dealing with a higher level of player entirely.

Orlando should absolutely be better next season but trades should be thought about more deeply than whether or not they give you an immediate boost, especially if your team was not close to the championship level before and won't be now either. As Wagner and Banchero go for maxes or even supermaxes (in fact Banchero should not settle for less than supermax from a fiscal perspective) while other players also have to be paid on top of Bane who has 200 mil coming they will have no way of improving their roster, neither cap flexibility nor draft picks. They will stagnate as the 3rd to 5th best team in the East every year and that's if they don't suffer major injuries to their top players. If they do have an unlucky year where a star gets hurt they don't get the pick that would be the silver lining.

They have a solid shot at the second round now but that still could have been the case letting the core stars mature. Overpaying for a guy that isn't a star is something you should only do if you were already contending and he is the missing piece. A team like Cleveland could consider something like that for a guy that they view as the perfect fit. They're win-now. Orlando on the other hand had stars that are 22 and 23. No need to microwave dinner.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015104]The deal is bad enough to say that they would be better off long- term with the 5 picks but if you are going to deal 4 firsts plus one pick swap you should be talking about an allstar. You should be talking to Phoenix about what/who they want back for Devin Booker, seeing if the Celtics would part with Jaylen Brown, dealing with a higher level of player entirely.

Orlando should absolutely be better next season but trades should be thought about more deeply than whether or not they give you an immediate boost, especially if your team was not close to the championship level before and won't be now either. As Wagner and Banchero go for maxes or even supermaxes (in fact Banchero should not settle for less than supermax from a fiscal perspective) while other players also have to be paid on top of Bane who has 200 mil coming they will have no way of improving their roster, neither cap flexibility nor draft picks. They will stagnate as the 3rd to 5th best team in the East every year and that's if they don't suffer major injuries to their top players. If they do have an unlucky year where a star gets hurt they don't get the pick that would be the silver lining.

They have a solid shot at the second round now but that still could have been the case letting the core stars mature. Overpaying for a guy that isn't a star is something you should only do if you were already contending and he is the missing piece. A team like Cleveland could consider something like that for a guy that they view as the perfect fit. They're win-now. Orlando on the other hand had stars that are 22 and 23. No need to microwave dinner.[/QUOTE]

While I don’t think it’s a great deal, Bane is relatively young and a great 3 shooter. FA’s aren’t clamoring to go the swamp, so they had to overpay.
On the flip side, nobody is clamoring for the Celts aging, overpaid, oft injured assets, and the apron means they ain’t getting any FAs.

[QUOTE=Chick Stern;15015119]While I don’t think it’s a great deal, Bane is relatively young and a great 3 shooter. FA’s aren’t clamoring to go the swamp, so they had to overpay.
On the flip side, nobody is clamoring for the Celts aging, overpaid, oft injured assets, and the apron means they ain’t getting any FAs.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what the Celtics have to do with this but who the Celtics can or can't get remains to be seen. Rushing into a deal isn't needed and can lead to mistakes like the one Orlando just made.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015104]The deal is bad enough to say that they would be better off long- term with the 5 picks but if you are going to deal 4 firsts plus one pick swap you should be talking about an allstar. You should be talking to Phoenix about what/who they want back for Devin Booker, seeing if the Celtics would part with Jaylen Brown, dealing with a higher level of player entirely.

Orlando should absolutely be better next season but trades should be thought about more deeply than whether or not they give you an immediate boost, especially if your team was not close to the championship level before and won't be now either. As Wagner and Banchero go for maxes or even supermaxes (in fact Banchero should not settle for less than supermax from a fiscal perspective) while other players also have to be paid on top of Bane who has 200 mil coming they will have no way of improving their roster, neither cap flexibility nor draft picks. They will stagnate as the 3rd to 5th best team in the East every year and that's if they don't suffer major injuries to their top players. If they do have an unlucky year where a star gets hurt they don't get the pick that would be the silver lining.

They have a solid shot at the second round now but that still could have been the case letting the core stars mature. Overpaying for a guy that isn't a star is something you should only do if you were already contending and he is the missing piece. A team like Cleveland could consider something like that for a guy that they view as the perfect fit. They're win-now. Orlando on the other hand had stars that are 22 and 23. No need to microwave dinner.[/QUOTE]

Bane not being an all-star is way overblown lol. Guys like Vanvleet, Herro, Lavine, Galrand, and Jrue have been all-stars in the East over the last few years. He's in that tier if not flat out better than some of those guys. But more importantly, he fits what we need more than any of those guys sans possibly Garland.

The no future draft picks is also just not true. We have 3 1st rounders over the next 5 years. Which is perfectly fine considering the young prospects who still need developed on the roster now in Black, Da Silva, Howard, and Houstan.

We're going in to year 5 of this rebuild and in that time frame Weltman hasn't made a trade until now. In fact, how conservative he's been has been an ongoing joke among Orlando fans. Calling this a microwave move is nothing short of hyperbolic or atleast ignorant to the situation. There's still existing young talent to develop, 1st rounders will still be coming through the pipeline, and our biggest need was addressed with one of the bests fits possible.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015083]They sent out 5 first round picks. They could use all of them on shooters off they wanted to and none of them would have to be paid 40 million. But if they're willing to pay 40 mil per and give up 5 picks I suspect they could have found a way to get a real allstar and not just a guy you incorrectly assume is better than an EC allstar.[/QUOTE]

You're assuming those picks will even hit. Bane is a proven commodity who helps the team win both now and in the future.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015104]The deal is bad enough to say that they would be better off long- term with the 5 picks but if you are going to deal 4 firsts plus one pick swap you should be talking about an allstar. You should be talking to Phoenix about what/who they want back for Devin Booker, seeing if the Celtics would part with Jaylen Brown, dealing with a higher level of player entirely.

Orlando should absolutely be better next season but trades should be thought about more deeply than whether or not they give you an immediate boost, especially if your team was not close to the championship level before and won't be now either. As Wagner and Banchero go for maxes or even supermaxes (in fact Banchero should not settle for less than supermax from a fiscal perspective) while other players also have to be paid on top of Bane who has 200 mil coming they will have no way of improving their roster, neither cap flexibility nor draft picks. They will stagnate as the 3rd to 5th best team in the East every year and that's if they don't suffer major injuries to their top players. If they do have an unlucky year where a star gets hurt they don't get the pick that would be the silver lining.

They have a solid shot at the second round now but that still could have been the case letting the core stars mature. Overpaying for a guy that isn't a star is something you should only do if you were already contending and he is the missing piece. A team like Cleveland could consider something like that for a guy that they view as the perfect fit. They're win-now. Orlando on the other hand had stars that are 22 and 23. No need to microwave dinner.[/QUOTE]

Ehh I don't really see how Booker makes sense for Orlando since you talk about potential cap problems in your post. At least with Banchero-Wagner-Bane it's only like a combined 120 million of the cap in 2027 for those 3. They can afford to keep their best players and avoid the 2nd apron. Suggs' yearly salary goes down after 2027 so this makes sense for them.

The East is wide open right now. This type of a move is what you'd expect from a franchise like the Magic who have never been a destination for stars. A couple role players wasn't going to cut it. Bane's contract as a 3rd guy isn't that bad given the cap raise in the coming years.

[QUOTE=theman93;15015135]Bane not being an all-star is way overblown lol. Guys like Vanvleet, Herro, Lavine, Galrand, and Jrue have been all-stars in the East over the last few years. He's in that tier if not flat out better than some of those guys. But more importantly, he fits what we need more than any of those guys sans possibly Garland.[/QUOTE] Bane isn't as valuable as prime Jrue Holiday. He may well be more valuable than Lavine when healthy but his borderline status combined with his rough injury history mean he's not worth 5 picks.

[QUOTE]The no future draft picks is also just not true. We have 3 1st rounders over the next 5 years. Which is perfectly fine considering the young prospects who still need developed on the roster now in Black, Da Silva, Howard, and Houstan.[/QUOTE] You act like having other players mean the picks are of no value. Makes no sense.

[Quote]We're going in to year 5 of this rebuild and in that time frame Weltman hasn't made a trade until now. In fact, how conservative he's been has been an ongoing joke among Orlando fans. Calling this a microwave move is nothing short of hyperbolic or atleast ignorant to the situation. There's still existing young talent to develop, 1st rounders will still be coming through the pipeline, and our biggest need was addressed with one of the bests fits possible.[/QUOTE] You feeling impatient doesn't make this a good move.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15015137]Ehh I don't really see how Booker makes sense for Orlando since you talk about potential cap problems in your post. At least with Banchero-Wagner-Bane it's only like a combined 120 million of the cap in 2027 for those 3. They can afford to keep their best players and avoid the 2nd apron. Suggs' yearly salary goes down after 2027 so this makes sense for them.[/quote] You need me to point out that Booker is a higher level of player than Bane?

Gilbert arenas on his podcast said he can confirm Orlando offered the firsts with no protection. Memphis didn’t ask. I don’t know if it’s true or not. But let’s say that is the case? Now that I think is terrible.

[QUOTE=GOBB;15015199]Gilbert arenas on his podcast said he can confirm Orlando offered the firsts with no protection. Memphis didn’t ask. I don’t know if it’s true or not. But let’s say that is the case? Now that I think is terrible.[/QUOTE]
Someone in their front office must think he was being held back in Memphis. To me that looks awful but these kinds of deals just need one strong opinion to happen if they have the authority.

[QUOTE=GOBB;15015199]Gilbert arenas on his podcast said he can confirm Orlando offered the firsts with no protection. Memphis didn’t ask. I don’t know if it’s true or not. But let’s say that is the case? Now that I think is terrible.[/QUOTE]

I’d take anything he says about Orlando with a massive grain of salt lol he slams us any chance he gets…. ie not taking Bates #6 overall in 2023

He may have made up Memphis not requestor the picks be unprotected but if the picks aren't protected it makes the trade worse regardless.

[QUOTE=theman93;15015205]I’d take anything he says about Orlando with a massive grain of salt lol he slams us any chance he gets…. ie not taking Bates #6 overall in 2023[/QUOTE]

He definately hates Orlando. Lol

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015164]Bane isn't as valuable as prime Jrue Holiday. He may well be more valuable than Lavine when healthy but his borderline status combined with his rough injury history mean he's not worth 5 picks.

You act like having other players mean the picks are of no value. Makes no sense.

You feeling impatient doesn't make this a good move.[/QUOTE]

Even if you want to categorize Jrue as better it’s not much of a distinguishable gap by any metric they just have different specialties. Regardless, he’s an all-star caliber player in the East. The injury thing is also kind of overblown. Since he became a starter he’s played nearly 75% of games and been available every playoff series.

And I’m not acting like the picks don’t have value at all. I’m saying we can take the blow of losing those picks because we still have multiple first round picks in the future, existing young prospects developing, while also adding one of the game’s elite shooters on top of it. It’s not like we’ve completely mortgaged the future lol.

East is pretty open for the taking right now and Orlando needed shooting. Bane is a great fit for their squad. The outgoing KCP contract wasn’t great. It’s a slight overpay but they didn’t break the bank.

Anyone framing this as a terrible move doesn’t know basketball.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15015252]East is pretty open for the taking right now.[/QUOTE]

This is 100% correct. With the Celtics missing Tatum the whole year probably and they're going to let one or two players walk they're not going to be the same. The Cavs underachieved for the second straight year and haven't made any progress since Mitchell joined the team. They perform great in the regular season, but once the playoffs start and the physicality increases they crumble. Orlando will probably be better. They had a positive season even though they were missing Banchero for half the season. They got hit with the injury bug more than any team in the league and still managed to make the playoffs. Hopefully they can stay healthy including Bane who has been injury prone in his career.

So far the only teams that have been consistent on a high level performing or doing better the last two seasons is the Knicks and Pacers. Wide open.

In the West? We're pretty much banking on the Thunder probably being the top dog again. Nuggets will be up there again. Maybe the Wolves. Durant going to the Rockets might turn the tide because they severely missed scoring in the playoffs. Spurs might be dangerous if Durant goes there and Wemby stays healthy... Wemby, Durant and Fox on the same team?

Something for people to keep in mind

Banchero (22)
F. Wagner (23)
Suggs (23)
Bane (26)
M. Wagner (28)

Why would you look at the draft when you have such a young team, if you draft a star you won't be able to pay to keep them or you'd have to dump one of the four guys you are already paying.

[QUOTE=theman93;15015216]Even if you want to categorize Jrue as better it’s not much of a distinguishable gap by any metric they just have different specialties. Regardless, he’s an all-star caliber player in the East. The injury thing is also kind of overblown. Since he became a starter he’s played nearly 75% of games and been available every playoff series.

And I’m not acting like the picks don’t have value at all. I’m saying we can take the blow of losing those picks because we still have multiple first round picks in the future, existing young prospects developing, while also adding one of the game’s elite shooters on top of it. It’s not like we’ve completely mortgaged the future lol.[/QUOTE] At his peak Jrue Holiday was in the argument for top perimeter defender in the league while putting up a similar level of offensive production. I don't know much about Bane as a defender but I've never heard anyone speak of him like that.

Having a few picks left over does not change the fact that the picks are valuable either.

[QUOTE=John8204;15015301]Something for people to keep in mind

Banchero (22)
F. Wagner (23)
Suggs (23)
Bane (26)
M. Wagner (28)

Why would you look at the draft when you have such a young team, if you draft a star you won't be able to pay to keep them or you'd have to dump one of the four guys you are already paying.[/QUOTE]
If you're worried about that then you shouldn't be trading for Bane's 200 mil to begin with. And it's a bit nuts to say that a .500 team has all the talent it needs after acquiring one good player.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015307]If you're worried about that then you shouldn't be trading for Bane's 200 mil to begin with. And it's a bit nuts to say that a .500 team has all the talent it needs after acquiring one good player.[/QUOTE]

paolo and suggs were injured last year. they're not a title team but they're a favorite for a top 4 seed for sure and talent wise they're on the lvl of any east team. An upgrade at center(watch for porzingis) and they're a finals team. Its for sure an overpay but bane is better than bridges fills their holes and doesnt hurt their defense like someone like simons or monk wouldve and has all star potential. You have paolo, franz and suggs entering their primes, its time to go for it

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15015137]Ehh I don't really see how Booker makes sense for Orlando since you talk about potential cap problems in your post. At least with Banchero-Wagner-Bane it's only like a combined 120 million of the cap in 2027 for those 3. They can afford to keep their best players and avoid the 2nd apron. Suggs' yearly salary goes down after 2027 so this makes sense for them.

The East is wide open right now. This type of a move is what you'd expect from a franchise like the Magic who have never been a destination for stars. A couple role players wasn't going to cut it. Bane's contract as a 3rd guy isn't that bad given the cap raise in the coming years.[/QUOTE]

booker is irrelevant since hes not available. The best guard available this offseason is likely immanuel quickley who wouldve been good but hes worse than bane. bane has a significantly higher chance of being an all star

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015025]It's not what I want but the combination of missed games, salary, and in Holiday's case, age, make me think that Stevens is going to move Porzingis and Holiday. This is all of course forced by the second apron and further forced by Tatum's injury. I can't blame the new ownership at all for not wanting to pay half a billion for 45 to 50 wins. With Tatum out for a year unless some team is willing to give up a replacement star for Tatum (not likely) a miniature rebuild is in order. Give JB a 50 game season to keep him healthy and see if they can get a lottery pick. Then after a year under the bleeping apron with a lottery pick and some more picks from moving Porzingis and Holiday pray Tatum comes back strong and see what they can do.[/QUOTE]

last year you said why would i worry about the 2nd apron when im not the one paying it. The owners wont break up a title core. You were half right wyc snap sold the team after the title so he wouldnt get the blame. Lot of guys warned you about brown and hausers deal and you dismissed it. one underrated factor about the bane deal is like imkobe said they have their core while avoiding the 2nd apron. You blow that out the window with a true star max guy. Paolo and franz are orlandos cornerstones, they dont need a true star for their 3rd guy.

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;15015356]paolo and suggs were injured last year. they're not a title team but they're a favorite for a top 4 seed for sure and talent wise they're on the lvl of any east team. An upgrade at center(watch for porzingis) and they're a finals team. Its for sure an overpay but bane is better than bridges fills their holes and doesnt hurt their defense like someone like simons or monk wouldve and has all star potential. You have paolo, franz and suggs entering their primes, its time to go for it[/QUOTE] And they may make the second round. Not worth 5 first round picks.

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;15015358]booker is irrelevant since hes not available. The best guard available this offseason is likely immanuel quickley who wouldve been good but hes worse than bane. bane has a significantly higher chance of being an all star[/quote]You seriously believe that the best guard that will change teams this summer is Immanuel Quickley?



[quote]last year you said why would i worry about the 2nd apron when im not the one paying it. The owners wont break up a title core. You were half right wyc snap sold the team after the title so he wouldnt get the blame. Lot of guys warned you about brown and hausers deal and you dismissed it. one underrated factor about the bane deal is like imkobe said they have their core while avoiding the 2nd apron. You blow that out the window with a true star max guy. Paolo and franz are orlandos cornerstones, they dont need a true star for their 3rd guy.[/QUOTE]So a ;ittle thing happened since that last post...what was it...oh, now I remember, the guy that led thev Celtics in points, rebounds and assists tore his achilles. If you turn Tatum into dead cap space then of course the Celtics are going to have to go into money-saving mode. But last year the goal was to go for a championship. The Celtic moves were already validated when they won it all in 2024. Bringing up a dead argument that you already lost in a different topic. Why?

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015368]You seriously believe that the best guard that will change teams this summer is Immanuel Quickley?



So a ;ittle thing happened since that last post...what was it...oh, now I remember, the guy that led thev Celtics in points, rebounds and assists tore his achilles. If you turn Tatum into dead cap space then of course the Celtics are going to have to go into money-saving mode. But last year the goal was to go for a championship. The Celtic moves were already validated when they won it all in 2024. Bringing up a dead argument that you already lost in a different topic. Why?[/QUOTE]

Yes the only other rumor is garland and I don’t think Cleveland is moving. Name the better guards than quickley youre so sure are moving.

The Tatum stuff is a good excuse but not enough. The rumors were the Celtics were getting rid of porzingis and Jrue if they didn’t win a title. Wyc also sold the team right after a title much before Tatums injury. If you can’t even beat a flawed Knicks team you’re not running it back with same roster. One title does save you from a lot of criticism no it doesn’t validate every move. You really believe the nuggets didn’t overpay porter jr lol? You saying you won an argument doesn’t mean you did. I brought up the dead argument because you reminded me with the Celtics argument and it’s one of the more recent arguments I had on here. I’m not on here that much like you mods or the trolls.

Dw your bad arguments aren’t the only ones I’m going call out. Kblaze is going have to go to court and defend himself over his Beal isn’t a bad contract takes :lol

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015306]At his peak Jrue Holiday was in the argument for top perimeter defender in the league while putting up a similar level of offensive production. I don't know much about Bane as a defender but I've never heard anyone speak of him like that.

Having a few picks left over does not change the fact that the picks are valuable either.[/QUOTE]

Bane has always been a B defender. It doesn’t really matter though, their nearly the same tier of player.

And who said those picks don’t hold value? You’re making up arguments no one has made.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015366]And they may make the second round. Not worth 5 first round picks.[/QUOTE]

So over the next 4 years Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Bane are locked up, the second round is the ceiling? Is that the argument?

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;15015381]Yes the only other rumor is garland and I don’t think Cleveland is moving. Name the better guards than quickley youre so sure are moving.[/quote] How often do you have an offseason where no player better than Quickly changes teams? I'm going to guess the answer is "never."

[QUOTE]The Tatum stuff is a good excuse but not enough. [/QUOTE] This is ridiculous. What team in NBA history would not change their plans if their max money franchise player got hurt? [QUOTE]The rumors were the Celtics were getting rid of porzingis and Jrue if they didn’t win a title. Wyc also sold the team right after a title much before Tatums injury. If you can’t even beat a flawed Knicks team you’re not running it back with same roster. One title does save you from a lot of criticism no it doesn’t validate every move. You really believe the nuggets didn’t overpay porter jr lol? You saying you won an argument doesn’t mean you did. I brought up the dead argument because you reminded me with the Celtics argument and it’s one of the more recent arguments I had on here. I’m not on here that much like you mods or the trolls[/QUOTE] Your argument was terrible and you lost it when the Celtics won a championship.

[Quote]Dw your bad arguments aren’t the only ones I’m going call out. Kblaze is going have to go to court and defend himself over his Beal isn’t a bad contract takes :lol[/QUOTE] If it's more of the same he doesn't have much to worry about.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015433]How often do you have an offseason where no player better than Quickly changes teams? I'm going to guess the answer is "never."

This is ridiculous. What team in NBA history would not change their plans if their max money franchise player got hurt? Your argument was terrible and you lost it when the Celtics won a championship.

If it's more of the same he doesn't have much to worry about.[/QUOTE]

I said guard. Obviously better players will move this offseason.

Many teams just waste a year if their star gets injured but besides the point. It’s verifiable rumors that the Celtics were going makes trades before Tatums injury once it was obvious that they were losing to Knicks. I can ask a similar question what team does nothing after losing in the 2nd round lol. Your assumption that the Celtics do nothing if Tatum doesn’t get injured is ridiculous.

Again answer the simple question is Michael porter jr overpaid? A title doesn’t make every move good no title doesn’t make every trade bad. I’m happy to admit when I’m actually wrong you’re too arrogant to ever do that. I thought siakam wasn’t a championship 2nd option and didn’t think it was a great trade. He proved me wrong and has been a perfect fit for Indiana, Toronto’s system held him back. You also don’t need to defend your fellow mod. You both know beals contract is a disaster for Phoenix.

[QUOTE=theman93;15015424]Bane has always been a B defender. It doesn’t really matter though, their nearly the same tier of player.

And who said those picks don’t hold value? You’re making up arguments no one has made.[/QUOTE] If their offense is on the same level while Holiday was one of the best defenders in the game how are they on the same tier?

[QUOTE=theman93;15015426]So over the next 4 years Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Bane are locked up, the second round is the ceiling? Is that the argument?[/QUOTE]A level they would have been close to without sacrificing 5 first round picks. I'm not saying they didn't get better, I'm saying they overpaid and long term that hurts their potential.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015445]If their offense is on the same level while Holiday was one of the best defenders in the game how are they on the same tier?[/QUOTE]

Their offense isn’t the same lvl, banes an elite shooter and that makes his offense better. Bane was a 2-3 in offensive epm in his prime. Jrue was a 1-2 in his pelicans years. Jrues a better player sure but both were borderline all stars in their prime so same tier isn’t ridiculous

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;15015443]I said guard. Obviously better players will move this offseason.[/QUOTE] Sub in the word guard and you still will always have better players getting moved
[Quote]Many teams just waste a year if their star gets injured but besides the point. It’s verifiable rumors that the Celtics were going makes trades before Tatums injury once it was obvious that they were losing to Knicks. [/Quote]"Verifiable rumors" is an inherently stupid phrase. Of course there world be changes made sooner or later. But what those changes would be are vastly different for a team that has an AllNBA player and a borderline AllNBA player to build around vs a team with a borderline AllNBA player (JB had made it before and could again if he had good health for a season) and an injured player with the supermax who they can't be sure will return at his previous level. If Tatum is healthy you consider keeping more talent or at least are willing to trade for bigger contracts back than you would knowing you have no shot at the championship next year and just want to save some money. [Quote]I can ask a similar question what team does nothing after losing in the 2nd round lol. Your assumption that the Celtics do nothing if Tatum doesn’t get injured is ridiculous.[/Quote] When did I ever say that? You can't argue with the voices in your head. But they're is an important point not being addressed...

[Quote]Again answer the simple question is Michael porter jr overpaid?[/Quote] Our original argument was about Jaylen Brown. You comparing him to MPJ is insane. [QUOTE]A title doesn’t make every move good no title doesn’t make every trade bad. [/QUOTE]A title justifies a team's general approach. Giving JB the supermax was an extremely important decision and the original point you seem to have forgotten that you were arguing about. When the Celtics won the championship it was the ultimate justification of what they were doing. Explain to me how anyone involved with the Celtics lost our. JB obviously got paid. Team won a championship. Grousbeck family made 6 billion dollars. But it was a bad deal because...? When do you start making sense?[quote]I’m happy to admit when I’m actually wrong[/quote] It doesn't matter if you aren't capable of realizing that you're wrong and instead continue to be wrong. [QUOTE]you’re too arrogant [/QUOTE] From arguing with people like you.]

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;15015451]Their offense isn’t the same lvl, banes an elite shooter and that makes his offense better. Bane was a 2-3 in offensive epm in his prime. Jrue was a 1-2 in his pelicans years. Jrues a better player sure but both were borderline all stars in their prime so same tier isn’t ridiculous[/QUOTE]
Holiday actually was an allstar. It's a bit nuts that holiday at his peak was just at offensively productive while being one of the best defenders in the league but you guys want to act like it's even. Holiday ha been a key part of two championships for a reason. Let me know when Banes is considered for the Olympics.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015445]If their offense is on the same level while Holiday was one of the best defenders in the game how are they on the same tier?[/QUOTE]

Their offense isn't on the same level. Before Jrue had Giannis/Middleton and Tatum/Brown to draw the defense away his TS% was only 54.2% (during his time in NO). After he joined them it jumped to 58.8%. Bane's career TS% is 59.7%. And that's with defenses only having to focus on Ja. Even in 2024 without Ja his TS% was 58.9%. Additionally, the gravity Bane causes is light years ahead of Jrue.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015447]A level they would have been close to without sacrificing 5 first round picks. I'm not saying they didn't get better, I'm saying they overpaid and long term that hurts their potential.[/QUOTE]

Well first of all, it's 4 first round picks we are losing, not 5. 2029 is a swap.

But I mean yeah, this is just you hating at this point. There's no way to prove the definitive ceiling is no more than 1 playoff series win in any of the next 4 seasons. We were already 1 game away from that a year ago and that was with absolutely 0 shooting lol.

Player A:
55.1% eFG | 57.5% TS | 41.9% 3P on 7 attempts

Player B:
56.6% eFG | 59.7% TS | 41% 3P on 6.3 attempts

Who would you rather have?

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015508]Sub in the word guard and you still will always have better players getting moved
"Verifiable rumors" is an inherently stupid phrase. Of course there world be changes made sooner or later. But what those changes would be are vastly different for a team that has an AllNBA player and a borderline AllNBA player to build around vs a team with a borderline AllNBA player (JB had made it before and could again if he had good health for a season) and an injured player with the supermax who they can't be sure will return at his previous level. If Tatum is healthy you consider keeping more talent or at least are willing to trade for bigger contracts back than you would knowing you have no shot at the championship next year and just want to save some money. When did I ever say that? You can't argue with the voices in your head. But they're is an important point not being addressed...

Our original argument was about Jaylen Brown. You comparing him to MPJ is insane. A title justifies a team's general approach. Giving JB the supermax was an extremely important decision and the original point you seem to have forgotten that you were arguing about. When the Celtics won the championship it was the ultimate justification of what they were doing. Explain to me how anyone involved with the Celtics lost our. JB obviously got paid. Team won a championship. Grousbeck family made 6 billion dollars. But it was a bad deal because...? When do you start making sense? It doesn't matter if you aren't capable of realizing that you're wrong and instead continue to be wrong. From arguing with people like you.][/QUOTE]

ok we can argue about the guards. tell me who you think gets traded.

the rumors were pretty clear. One of jrue or porzingis was getting traded. Saving money was a big factor no matter what again the former owner instantly sold the team after the first title run. You said back then the celtics would have no issues with the apron and keep their team together for years. I'm not making that up im pretty sure.

ofc jaylen is better than mpj, thats not my point. The point is you said "The Celtic moves were already validated when they won it all in 2024." the exact argument can be used for michael porter jr. Was the porter jr signing not validated by denvers title in 23? I argue no ofc not I used the most extreme example but its a simple counter to that point you made. also, Jaylen was part of the argument and i disagreed but that part isnt what matters here. The important part was I didnt think the celtics could keep their team together the apron is too much of weight on teambuilding and you disagreed. I thought they couldnt resign hauser for example tbf I was half wrong they did resign him but look what it lead to. To paraphrase you said essentially why would I worry about the teams cap situation and the owners will have no problem paying the roster. you thought the celtics could pay everyone and now their core lasted only 2 seasons was the main point I brought up this time. Tatum again is a good explanation but isnt enough when the celtics got new owners and it was common knowledge they were planning to dump salary anyway and get under the 2nd apron. The only way they keep the roster intact is if they won a title(and a lot of insiders thought they wouldnt keep the roster even if they did)

pot meets kettle when you cherrypick your arguments and misrepresent what I say and rely on gotchus. It works on the trolls here but you wouldnt really stand a chance in a debate even on realgm. you cant even do well vs me