Tmac: 'Replace me with Kobe and I'm with Shaq, I don't win a championship?'

Thatta girl :cheers:

[QUOTE=LAL;15017870]No, he couldn't do it with Vince, he did in Orlando in 2001, Kobe did it with Shaq in 2001 with everyone trying to hold him back, still carried them whenever they needed to win. Please shut up bron stan.[/QUOTE]

You are such a dumb person to talk to. My mistake for even responding.

As far as all time perimeter players goes, i doesn't get any better than 2001 Kobe.

2000 Kobe had to facilitate in a ball moving system with shaq, 2nd all D, and close out games in the 4th. 2000 tmac wasn't there yet. If ever, he played streetball and was slower in getting his shots off but was a bucket with very good handles. 2001 Kobe was scoring for fun and guarding the best players. Again was told to stop scoring so much.

All these guys faced circumstances.

This idiot couldn't tell any of you what Tmac was doing in Toronto, his head was already too far up Kobe's ass to have a worthwhile thought about anything else. The angry thrashing about anytime Kobes name is mentioned is a dead give away. Time to let go lil guy.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15017898]This idiot couldn't tell any of you what Tmac was doing in Toronto, his head was already too far up Kobe's ass to have a worthwhile thought about anything else. The angry thrashing about anytime Kobes name is mentioned is a dead give away. Time to let go lil guy.[/QUOTE]

I love how you guys and klutch media entertain these dumb discussions until Harden (who wasn't even starting then), KD or Kawhi come out one day and say they could've won more and as many as lebron on the Heatles in the weak east. See how you guys will react then.

Btw i actually watched most of those Toronto NY po games in 2000, even 2000 Vince wasn't ready for the big stage (first rounds) and had a very decent team (15 in g1 & 16 in G3). Kobe was ready.

[QUOTE=LAL;15017900]I love how you guys and klutch media entertain these dumb discussions until Harden (who wasn't even starting then), KD or Kawhi come out one day and say they could've won more and as many as lebron on the Heatles in the weak east. See how you guys will react then.

Btw i actually watched most of those Toronto NY po games in 2000, even 2000 Vince wasn't ready for the big stage (first rounds) and had a very decent team (15 in g1 & 16 in G3). Kobe was ready.[/QUOTE]

Umm maybe its because at that point in time Kobe and Tmac could do similar things and play a similar role on a team. None of those guys can do all the things Lebron did for the heat. And even with that said im sure other guys could have won with those heat teams, big whoop. You really need to get over this shit, you look like a retard in every thread regardless of which account you show up with.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15017915]Umm maybe its because at that point in time Kobe and Tmac could do similar things and play a similar role on a team. [B][SIZE=4]None of those guys can do all the things Lebron did for the heat[/SIZE][/B]. And even with that said im sure other guys could have won with those heat teams, big whoop. You really need to get over this shit, you look like a retard in every thread regardless of which account you show up with.[/QUOTE]

:roll:

Now i remember you shod tatum. You're mad because i made you look a little stupid couple days ago.

Dude get over it.

[QUOTE=LAL;15017916]:roll:[/QUOTE]

Harden could score and playmake but was laughable on defense.

Kawhi could score and play elite defense but couldn't playmake.

Kd could score and defend but not like Lebron in miami. Nor could he playmake like lebron.

[QUOTE=LAL;15017917]Now i remember you shod tatum. You're mad because i made you look a little stupid couple days ago.

Dude get over it.[/QUOTE]
Boi what in the high hell you talking about?

Miami had enough playmakers, including wade, or wade could play off ball.

Your arguments are not convincing enough, especially when everyone would sag off from him to shoot or shut him down in the finals. Anyone could replace lebron playing with wade and bosh and a great supporting cast, at least those guys were ELITE scorers, lebron was even scared of the free throw line. They won 2 with luck.


So now the difference in defense is important?

[video=youtube;mQbyIS7k08M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQbyIS7k08M[/video]

[QUOTE=Da_Realist;15017928][video=youtube;mQbyIS7k08M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQbyIS7k08M[/video][/QUOTE]

There we go

[QUOTE=LAL;15017933]There we go[/QUOTE]

You would be here cosigning a video this hypocritically stupid. Without picking it apart piece by piece I'll just make a single point of the many that can be made about this video. The Kobe stan that made it said he had superstar syndrome. That he left Toronto because he wanted to be the no.1 option, while failing to realize that he was going to Orlando to be with both Grant Hill AND Tim Duncan. How stupid is that? Especially considering that Kobe had Shaq shipped so he could be "the Superstar" i love Kobe man, but his stans are soupy dumpster juice.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15018029]You would be here cosigning a video this hypocritically stupid. Without picking it apart piece by piece I'll just make a single point of the many that can be made about this video. The Kobe stan that made it said he had superstar syndrome. That he left Toronto because he wanted to be the no.1 option, while failing to realize that he was going to Orlando to be with both Grant Hill AND Tim Duncan. How stupid is that? Especially considering that Kobe had Shaq shipped so he could be "the Superstar" i love Kobe man, but his stans are soupy dumpster juice.[/QUOTE]

Kobe wanted out, Shaq wanted to be paid like he was still in his prime but he was washed in 2004.. Shaq's ego wasn't going to let him be a #2 to Kobe even though he should've embraced that role.

[QUOTE]“[Shaq] wanted an amount of money that was legal under the CBA but it wasn’t what my Dad wanted to pay him. And so it came to the point where the decision was made to trade Shaq. A lot of people want to put that blame on Kobe. It wasn’t. It was purely a money situation.”[/QUOTE] - Jeanie Buss

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15018047]Kobe wanted out, Shaq wanted to be paid like he was still in his prime but he was washed in [B]2004[/B].. Shaq's ego wasn't going to let him be a #2 to Kobe even though he should've embraced that role.

- Jeanie Buss[/QUOTE]

2003 for sure, all fat with those wristbands. These kids don't remember. The big diesel was coasting since the summer of 2000.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15018047]Kobe wanted out, Shaq wanted to be paid like he was still in his prime but he was washed in 2004.. Shaq's ego wasn't going to let him be a #2 to Kobe even though he should've embraced that role.

- Jeanie Buss[/QUOTE]

That team was done after the 2004 finals no matter what. Especially after the Colorado incident the team was split between 'Shaq' and 'Kobe' camps. Kobe drew alot of heat for not inviting teammates to his wedding and not attending team functions, Kobe was upset that Shaq didn't reach out to him during his legal issues, etc.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15018047]Kobe wanted out, Shaq wanted to be paid like he was still in his prime [B]but he was washed in 2004[/B].. Shaq's ego wasn't going to let him be a #2 to Kobe even though he should've embraced that role.

- Jeanie Buss[/QUOTE]

Wasn't he like...almost MVP in 2005? :lol

He wasn't peak Shaq anymore, one of if not the most dominant forces the league has ever seen, but he was still among the best players in the league. He wasn't "washed" until 2008 or so.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15018029]You would be here cosigning a video this hypocritically stupid. Without picking it apart piece by piece I'll just make a single point of the many that can be made about this video. The Kobe stan that made it said he had superstar syndrome. That he left Toronto because he wanted to be the no.1 option, while failing to realize that he was going to Orlando to be with both Grant Hill AND Tim Duncan. How stupid is that? Especially considering that Kobe had Shaq shipped so he could be "the Superstar" i love Kobe man, but his stans are soupy dumpster juice.[/QUOTE]

Why didn't he get to start in toronto? Why didn't he want to step in Vince's toes when Vince was having 15 point games in a first round sweep out east in 2000?

He tried to form a superteam in Orlando, didn't work out AT ALL. Now What?

Kobe will always be remembered for ****ing up teams by himself those 2 years with Kwame and Smush, 81, 62 vs 61 in 3Q, 50 point streak, 12 3ptm NBA record, ALL 1st D. All tmac is remembered y is his 30 seconds vs The spurs, where he wasn't shit in Houston and never got past the first round in his life. Go away.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15018056]Wasn't he like...almost MVP in 2005? :lol

He wasn't peak Shaq anymore, one of if not the most dominant forces the league has ever seen, but he was still among the best players in the league. He wasn't "washed" until 2008 or so.[/QUOTE]

He was significantly worse. MVP is not an individual award.

[QUOTE=LAL;15018057]Why didn't he get to start in toronto? Why didn't he want to step in Vince's toes when Vince was having 15 point games in a first round sweep out east in 2000?

He tried to form a superteam in Orlando, didn't work out AT ALL. Now What?

Kobe will always be remembered for ****ing up teams by himself those 2 years with Kwame and Smush, 81, 62 vs 61 in 3Q, 50 point streak, 12 3ptm NBA record, ALL 1st D. All tmac is remembered y is his 30 seconds vs The spurs, where he wasn't shit in Houston and never got past the first round in his life. Go away.[/QUOTE]

See what im saying about Kobe stans? You guys are the basic bitch of nba fandom. All that emotional ranting and failed to address what I actually said. The video was trash and had pretty hypocritical content. You couldn't even refute point no.1: how did Tmac have "superstar syndrome" and Kobe didn't? One went to for sure not be the 1st option and one got rid of his 1st option. Make it make sense. Also you're not a smart guy. Thats all.:oldlol:

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15018047]Kobe wanted out, Shaq wanted to be paid like he was still in his prime but he was washed in 2004.. Shaq's ego wasn't going to let him be a #2 to Kobe even though he should've embraced that role.

- Jeanie Buss[/QUOTE]

And this still doesn't somehow exclude Kobe from the narrative that video tried to paint on tmac in contrast to Kobe lol. Why did Kobe want out? We all know what went on and how the sheets have been smoothed out as the years go. But remember in real time it was a him or me decision.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15018061]See what im saying about Kobe stans? You guys are the basic bitch of nba fandom. All that emotional ranting and failed to address what I actually said. The video was trash and had pretty hypocritical content. You couldn't even refute point no.1: how did Tmac have "superstar syndrome" and Kobe didn't? One went to for sure not be the 1st option and one got rid of his 1st option. Make it make sense. Also you're not a smart guy. Thats all.:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

The video was extremely interesting, didn't say it was flawless or whatever??

Are you trying to use the legoofy stan tricks on me? You couldn't even defend
legoofy being replaced on the Heatles superteam in a extreme weak conference

[QUOTE=LAL;15018067]The video was extremely interesting, didn't say it was flawless or whatever??

Are you trying to use the legoofy stan tricks on me? You couldn't even defend
legoofy being replaced on the Heatles superteam in a extreme weak conference[/QUOTE]

Nah B, actually I broke it down in as basic as possible terms for your remedial ass but apparently it still whooshed clean over your head. Come back when you're ready to actually discuss the topic.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15018069]Nah B, actually I broke it down in as basic as possible terms for your remedial ass but apparently it still whooshed clean over your head. Come back when you're ready to actually discuss the topic.[/QUOTE]

You said Kawhi, Harden or KD coudn't do what legoofy did from 11 to 14 on the Heatles superteam (or 15 to 18 Cavs).

Please explain in depth because your previous reasons sucked, and why you thought
you felt you were confident enough to believe tmac would've been as successful as Kobe with Shaq.

Most bron stans would be honest enough to stay away from these type of discussions but your love
for delonte's son makes you look stupid and pathetic as f.

Don't put your foot in your mouth again by mentioning defense then go back and hide again.

Man you bron stans fight for every great teammate or opponent of MJ & Kobe's time.

TMac couldn't get 2 games against a 2001-2002 Hornets team that had Baron Davis, David Wesley, Elden Campbell, and PJ Brown. Not exactly a Murder's Row of a lineup. Put Kobe on this Magic team and they're winning this series.
In 2003, they're up 3-1 on Detroit, and in game 7 TMac took a sh--- shooting 7-24 for 21 points.
In 2003-2004 they won 21 games.

TMac is no where near on Kobe Bryant's level. There's a reason he never won a series, he's not clutch, at all. I explicitly recall back in the early to mid 2000's the likes of Mark Jackson claiming Kobe Bryant being better than Michael Jordan. I never once heard that claim with McGrady.

Stop it already.

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;15018077]TMac couldn't get 2 games against a 2001-2002 Hornets team that had Baron Davis, David Wesley, Elden Campbell, and PJ Brown. Not exactly a Murder's Row of a lineup. Put Kobe on this Magic team and they're winning this series.
In 2003, they're up 3-1 on Detroit, and in game 7 TMac took a sh--- shooting 7-24 for 21 points.
In 2003-2004 they won 21 games.

TMac is no where near on Kobe Bryant's level. There's a reason he never won a series, he's not clutch, at all. I explicitly recall back in the early to mid 2000's the likes of Mark Jackson claiming Kobe Bryant being better than Michael Jordan. I never once heard that claim with McGrady.

Stop it already.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say hes not clutch after that sequence he had vs the Spurs. Which is probably the best clutch stretch ever.

But he definitely didn't have Kobes long term discipline. Which isnt a knock because 99.999% of people never will. He was still phenomenal talent though in his own right.

[QUOTE=tpols;15018084]I wouldn't say hes not clutch after that sequence he had vs the Spurs. Which is probably the best clutch stretch ever.

But he definitely didn't have Kobes lingerie term discipline. Which isnt a knock because 99.999% of people never will. He was still phenomenal talent though in his own right.[/QUOTE]

Are you like to trying to be honest or be seen as "neutral" and friendly?
Who tf cares about 1 reg season clutch shot?

[QUOTE=LAL;15018085]Are you like to trying to be honest or be seen as "neutral" and friendly?
Who tf cares about 1 reg season clutch shot?[/QUOTE]

It wasn't just a shot. You exposed yourself.

[video=youtube_share;e3EqY5gPrcU]https://youtu.be/e3EqY5gPrcU?si=Qaa3WvWbRLR64H2K[/video]

That's on prime Bowen Duncan.

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;15018077]TMac couldn't get 2 games against a 2001-2002 Hornets team that had Baron Davis, David Wesley, Elden Campbell, and PJ Brown. Not exactly a Murder's Row of a lineup. Put Kobe on this Magic team and they're winning this series.[/QUOTE]
I think Kobe won one playoff series as the underdog in his entire career, which McGrady was in that series. To just claim he wins that series is pretty presumptuous. Kobe also consistently struggled against East teams in the Finals in the early 2000's.

[QUOTE]In 2003, they're up 3-1 on Detroit, and in game 7 TMac took a sh--- shooting 7-24 for 21 points.[/QUOTE]
Kobe would never do that, or play that badly in a Game 7.

[QUOTE]I explicitly recall back in the early to mid 2000's the likes of Mark Jackson claiming Kobe Bryant being better than Michael Jordan. I never once heard that claim with McGrady. [/QUOTE]
Literally one person claiming something idiotic is an irrelevant point to make. I could provide several examples of people saying all kinds of nonsensical shit.

You think these bronsexuals who defend Tmac (most weren't old enough or born) give af about how many clutch shots other superstars had during bron's time?

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;15018077]TMac couldn't get 2 games against a 2001-2002 Hornets team that had Baron Davis, David Wesley, Elden Campbell, and PJ Brown. Not exactly a Murder's Row of a lineup. [B]Put Kobe on this Magic team and they're winning this series. [/B]
In 2003, they're up 3-1 on Detroit, and in game 7 TMac took a sh--- shooting 7-24 for 21 points.
In 2003-2004 they won 21 games.

TMac is no where near on Kobe Bryant's level. There's a reason he never won a series, he's not clutch, at all. I explicitly recall back in the early to mid 2000's the likes of Mark Jackson claiming Kobe Bryant being better than Michael Jordan. I never once heard that claim with McGrady.

Stop it already.[/QUOTE]

Oh, word? Well that settles it...

[QUOTE=tpols;15018087]It wasn't just a shot. You exposed yourself.

[video=youtube_share;e3EqY5gPrcU]https://youtu.be/e3EqY5gPrcU?si=Qaa3WvWbRLR64H2K[/video]

That's on prime Bowen Duncan.[/QUOTE]

You really thought i didn't know it was more than one shot

[QUOTE=LAL;15018075]Don't put your foot in your mouth again by mentioning defense then go back and hide again.

Man you bron stans fight for every great teammate or opponent of MJ & Kobe's time.[/QUOTE]
More like why is it only Mj and Kobes teammates that get bumped down lower than what they actually were at the time. You literally have a thread on top of the 1st page trying to downplay freaking SHAQ for the love of God. Shaq is in tbe pantheon, stfu. Pippen was regarded as the greatest sidekick ever.....until Kobe came along. Stfu. These are legends.

[QUOTE=LAL;15018073]You said Kawhi, Harden or KD coudn't do what legoofy did from 11 to 14 on the Heatles superteam (or 15 to 18 Cavs).

Please explain in depth because your previous reasons sucked, and why you thought
you felt you were confident enough to believe tmac would've been as successful as Kobe with Shaq.

Most bron stans would be honest enough to stay away from these type of discussions but your love
for delonte's son makes you look stupid and pathetic as f.[/QUOTE]
Go back and read my previous post on this. I purposely formatted it like a children's book attempting to reach you on a level you can compute. Im not wasting another post trying to explain what you're making out to be quantum physics to a dunce. If anyone else who can carry a debate addresses it i might but you? Nah. Im good. Go read the kids book I wrote you.

[QUOTE=tpols;15018087]It wasn't just a shot. You exposed yourself.

[video=youtube_share;e3EqY5gPrcU]https://youtu.be/e3EqY5gPrcU?si=Qaa3WvWbRLR64H2K[/video]

That's on prime Bowen Duncan.[/QUOTE]

You gotta excuse him he probably was like 6.

[QUOTE=Da_Realist;15017928][video=youtube;mQbyIS7k08M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQbyIS7k08M[/video][/QUOTE]

I mean just shut the whole thing down.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15018109]More like why is it only Mj and Kobes teammates that get bumped down lower than what they actually were at the time. You literally have a thread on top of the 1st page trying to downplay freaking SHAQ for the love of God. Shaq is in tbe pantheon, stfu. Pippen was regarded as the greatest sidekick ever.....until Kobe came along. Stfu. These are legends.


Go back and read my previous post on this. I purposely formatted it like a children's book attempting to reach you on a level you can compute. Im not wasting another post trying to explain what you're making out to be quantum physics to a dunce. If anyone else who can carry a debate addresses it i might but you? Nah. Im good. Go read the kids book I wrote you.[/QUOTE]


I tried but you're not worth it. Please ignore me.

Bro peak 2003 T-Mac 100% wins if he replaces Kobe on the 2000 Lakers. It's not even a debate.

01 and 02 are uncertain though.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15018234][B]Bro peak 2003 T-Mac 100% wins if he replaces Kobe on the 2000 Lakers.[/B] It's not even a debate.

01 and 02 are uncertain though.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but that's basically creating a scenario where you're picking the best version of Tmac to pair with the best version of Shaq. I think there are more interesting and realistic scenarios to consider, like what happens if Tmac is drafted to LA in 97 ( he came a year after Kobe) and played with Shaq until 2005. If you assume Shaq is the same guy between 99 and 2002, then it's really more about how Tmac develops in that situation, the roster, the coaching, etc. Like are we literally just plugging Tmac into Kobe's spot, or is there likely to be other changes? Case in point, I said earlier that Eddie Jones was moved to make a spot for Kobe. Do they keep Jones and put Tmac at the SF spot? Do they still trade him but for someone else? Maybe a better PF than the likes of past prime AC Green and Horace Grant ( considering the gauntlet of PFs in the west at that time) and then stick Tmac at the two? I don't think it's as simple as just taking out Kobe, replacing with Tmac and everything else stays the same. Was it really Phil that got Shaq over the line, or was he gonna win regardless with any decent coach and it was just his time in 2000? I'm not saying yes or no one way or another, just saying there are various factors involved. Like, on paper Tmac by 2002 may have been good enough to win with 2002 Shaq, but Tmac also didn't have Kobe's personality to ruffle Shaq's feathers ( which was both what drove them to greatness as a pair but also part of why they split). It's why I think there is one title likely in this scenario, less likely two and definitely not three.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15018234][B]Bro peak 2003 T-Mac 100% wins if he replaces Kobe on the 2000 Lakers.[/B] It's not even a debate.

01 and 02 are uncertain though.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but that's basically creating a scenario where you're picking the best version of Tmac to pair with the best version of Shaq. I think there are more interesting and realistic scenarios to consider, like what happens if Tmac is drafted to LA in 97 ( he came a year after Kobe) and played with Shaq until 2005. If you assume Shaq is the same guy between 99 and 2002, then it's really more about how Tmac develops in that situation, the roster, the coaching, etc. Like are we literally just plugging Tmac into Kobe's spot, or is there likely to be other changes? Case in point, I said earlier that Eddie Jones was moved to make a spot for Kobe. Do they keep Jones and put Tmac at the SF spot? Do they still trade him but for someone else? Maybe a better PF than the likes of past prime AC Green and Horace Grant ( considering the gauntlet of PFs in the west at that time) and then stick Tmac at the two? I don't think it's as simple as just taking out Kobe, replacing with Tmac and everything else stays the same. Was it really Phil that got Shaq over the line, or was he gonna win regardless with any decent coach and it was just his time in 2000? I'm not saying yes or no one way or another, just saying there are various factors involved. Like, on paper Tmac by 2002 may have been good enough to win with 2002 Shaq, but Tmac also didn't have Kobe's personality to ruffle Shaq's feathers ( which was both what drove them to greatness as a pair but also part of why they split). It's why I think there is one title likely in this scenario, less likely two and definitely not three.