Democrats going to shutdown the government out of spite

[QUOTE=rmt;15036552]I have stated repeatedly that I do not support deficits and every dollar saved from DOGE cuts, tariffs, etc. should go toward reducing our debt. The tax cuts have passed - they are not the subject of this government shutdown. If you want to decide what to spend money on, win elections.

I support deporting illegal aliens - they are not supposed to be here. A major part of why Trump won is because Biden opened up the border to "asylum seekers" when everyone knows the majority of them have no such claim.[/QUOTE]

You don't support deficit but have yet to say whether you support the historic taxcuts for the rich or not.

The reason for these social cuts is due in significant part to paying for the taxcuts. The way to balance the deficit is by cutting the excess AND not slashing the revenue. By cutting taxes, that lowers the revenue, so the cuts have to be even greater to balance the books. And even with the cuts, it won't make up for the revenue lost from taxcuts.

And it primarily impacts the poor and middle-class here. How can you justify that?

[QUOTE=Off the Court;15036984][URL]https://x.com/ReallyAmerican1/status/1975684711180612090[/URL]


MTG Blasting Republicans :roll:[/QUOTE]

She is in it for herself, getting ready for the next POTUS JD Vance.

[QUOTE=Off the Court;15036776]Why does the Trump admin hate good health so much?[/QUOTE]

Obama: "You'll get to keep your doctor"

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15037011]Obama: "You'll get to keep your doctor"[/QUOTE]

i would assume that's highly beneficial for you since not too many doctors specialize in treating someone that weighs[B][SIZE=7] 400 POUNDS[/SIZE][/B]

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15037011]Obama: "You'll get to keep your doctor"[/QUOTE]

Trump: “They’re eating the dogs!”

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15037011]Obama: "You'll get to keep your doctor"[/QUOTE]


Trump: " I have ended seven wars."

Even MAGA supports keeping the healthcare tax credits that Republicans want to dump. The Republican party leaders and Trump's bootlickers like rmt are so out of touch with reality & their own party. I can't wait for the blue wave in the midterms and 2028 with historic turnouts that will blanket the elections in blue. Republicans will turn on Trump so fast — "I never even knew Trump." "Who is Trump? I never heard of him" come post-2028.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/zHxkQn7q/bafkreickhiremkuuyl4ypibjkc6i4lhamf5svywu5mca33qounoqo5fn6q.jpg[/IMG]

[URL]https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/news/cdc-rfk-jr-shutdown-layoffs-goal-rcna237035[/URL]

Luckily, the employees are not fired yet. But yeah, Americans, at least, are f*cked.

[QUOTE=bladefd;15037281]Even MAGA supports keeping the healthcare tax credits that Republicans want to dump. The Republican party leaders and Trump's bootlickers like rmt are so out of touch with reality & their own party. I can't wait for the blue wave in the midterms and 2028 with historic turnouts that will blanket the elections in blue. Republicans will turn on Trump so fast — "I never even knew Trump." "Who is Trump? I never heard of him" come post-2028.
[/QUOTE]

You sound like TheAlwaysWrongMan where you don't have any wins in the present and is instead left with fantasizing about the future, trying to get your win ahead of time. Remember how not too long ago you were so sure that Trump would go to jail and definitely never become President again?
The left is going to have a historic win in just 3 years while your party is in demise is quite unrealistic when the border isn't opening again for new voters and so many of the ones you've let in over the last years will have been deported by ICE instead of having received amnesty for crossing the border illegally and become US citizens.

[QUOTE=bladefd;15037281]Even MAGA supports keeping the healthcare tax credits that Republicans want to dump. [b]The Republican party leaders and Trump's bootlickers are so out of touch with reality & their own party[/b]. I can't wait for the blue wave in the midterms and 2028 with historic turnouts that will blanket the elections in blue. Republicans will turn on Trump so fast — "I never even knew Trump." "Who is Trump? I never heard of him" come post-2028.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/zHxkQn7q/bafkreickhiremkuuyl4ypibjkc6i4lhamf5svywu5mca33qounoqo5fn6q.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
:roll:

Blade so confident in a party that currently has no leader or one on the horizon. They have no idea what direction the party's going except for being highly supportive of hating Trump, loving undocumented illegals and putting Americans last.

Why do you support that Blade? I realize you want their votes to count but what other reason(s) can you give for your love of undocumented illegals?

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15037303]You sound like TheAlwaysWrongMan where you don't have any wins in the present and is instead left with fantasizing about the future, trying to get your win ahead of time. Remember how not too long ago you were so sure that Trump would go to jail and definitely never become President again?
The left is going to have a historic win in just 3 years while your party is in demise is quite unrealistic when the border isn't opening again for new voters and so many of the ones you've let in over the last years will have been deported by ICE instead of having received amnesty for crossing the border illegally and become US citizens.[/QUOTE]

Remember how 2018, 2020 and 2022 went? I expect the same this time around.

Too many people decided not to vote in 2024, and I hope Democrats learned from putting forth an incompetent candidate like Harris. Much like 2016, independents are turning on Trump. The Trump administration better push for everything they want right now for policy while they still have both houses of Congress, including making it tougher to vote, activating insurrection act and getting rid of mail-in-ballots.

Whoever runs for president in 2028 on the Republican side will have to distance themselves from Trump.

P.S. Show me proof that illegals have been voting in huge numbers or even significant numbers. I will wait. I don't think you understand the process of becoming an US Citizen.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15037011]Obama: "You'll get to keep your doctor"[/QUOTE]

Trump: "I need to inspect Miss Teen USA changing rooms"

[QUOTE=bladefd;15037420]Remember how 2018, 2020 and 2022 went? I expect the same this time around.

Too many people decided not to vote in 2024, and I hope Democrats learned from putting forth an incompetent candidate like Harris. Much like 2016, independents are turning on Trump. The Trump administration better push for everything they want right now for policy while they still have both houses of Congress, including making it tougher to vote, activating insurrection act and getting rid of mail-in-ballots.

Whoever runs for president in 2028 on the Republican side will have to distance themselves from Trump.

P.S. Show me proof that illegals have been voting in huge numbers or even significant numbers. I will wait. I don't think you understand the process of becoming an US Citizen.[/QUOTE]

There's 14 states and D.C that don't require photo ID to vote and they're all Blue states.

Why you think only Blue states do this, Blade? What would be the main purpose for Dems wanting it like that?

[QUOTE=bladefd;15037004]You don't support deficit but have yet to say whether you support the historic taxcuts for the rich or not.

The reason for these social cuts is due in significant part to paying for the taxcuts. The way to balance the deficit is by cutting the excess AND not slashing the revenue. By cutting taxes, that lowers the revenue, so the cuts have to be even greater to balance the books. And even with the cuts, it won't make up for the revenue lost from taxcuts.

And it primarily impacts the poor and middle-class here. How can you justify that?[/QUOTE]

These tax cuts are keeping the same tax rate as ALL taxpayers have enjoyed over the past 8 years. If these tax cuts are allowed to expire, the DEMs would be the first to frame it as Republicans making taxes go up (just like the framing of the not extending the temporary covid aca extensions as cutting health care).

I do not support no taxes on tips or overtime or increase in senior exemption - they are just for getting votes. The overall (covering EVERYONE - not just the rich) tax cuts I would put in another category they are credited with supposedly helping the economy in Trump's 1st term. On the assumption that they will help similarly in his 2nd term, I'm ok with change in tax policy (see my previous statement about decision on how to spend money is winning elections) - that is EASILY changed by 51 senators/reconciliation of whichever party is in power.

ACA subsidy extension is an INSIDIOUS, PERMANENT EXPANSION of yet another social program that is IMPOSSIBLE to take back once people get used to money from the government. It is a totally different animal than tax policy. It is because of these social programs - Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, ACA that have grown and grown and have become untouchable holy grails and will only increase our debt - that is where the majority of money is spent.

Raise SS/Medicare age (for younger people), uncap SS income limit, invest SS/Medicare funds in S&P 500 low cost index funds, return to pre-covid government spending (get rid of all covid special funding), institute the DOGE cuts especially foreign aid, return Medicaid to its original intent (for children, pregnant women, disabled, elderly with income limits).

Given the choice between Democrats and Republicans, who do you think will spend MORE and increase yet more government spending on [B]PERMANENT[/B] social programs (instead of [B]EASILY CHANGEABLE[/B] tax policy). Why do you think Biden's administration/Democrats' 2020-24 did not UNDO Trump's tax cuts and [B]raise taxes on the rich[/B] way up? (many of your dream wish) but instead chose increasing ACA subsidies.

[QUOTE=bladefd;15037420]Too many people decided not to vote in 2024, and I hope Democrats learned from putting forth an incompetent candidate like Harris. Much like 2016, independents are turning on Trump. The Trump administration better push for everything they want right now for policy while they still have both houses of Congress, including making it tougher to vote, activating insurrection act and getting rid of mail-in-ballots.

Whoever runs for president in 2028 on the Republican side will have to distance themselves from Trump.[/QUOTE]

You guys said the same thing this last election, that the right was turning on Trump. You were saying this all the way up until the election. Was there a single lefty on this forum who predicted that Trump would win in a dominant landslide?

And now you want to make predictions three years out?

Can you tell us who's going to win the NBA finals too? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15037435]There's 14 states and D.C that don't require photo ID to vote and they're all Blue states.

Why you think only Blue states do this, Blade? What would be the main purpose for Dems wanting it like that?[/QUOTE]

Do you have proof that illegals voted in significant numbers?

[QUOTE=rmt;15037479]These tax cuts are keeping the same tax rate as ALL taxpayers have enjoyed over the past 8 years. If these tax cuts are allowed to expire, the DEMs would be the first to frame it as Republicans making taxes go up (just like the framing of the not extending the temporary covid aca extensions as cutting health care).

I do not support no taxes on tips or overtime or increase in senior exemption - they are just for getting votes. The overall (covering EVERYONE - not just the rich) tax cuts I would put in another category they are credited with supposedly helping the economy in Trump's 1st term. On the assumption that they will help similarly in his 2nd term, I'm ok with change in tax policy (see my previous statement about decision on how to spend money is winning elections) - that is EASILY changed by 51 senators/reconciliation of whichever party is in power.

ACA subsidy extension is an INSIDIOUS, PERMANENT EXPANSION of yet another social program that is IMPOSSIBLE to take back once people get used to money from the government. It is a totally different animal than tax policy. It is because of these social programs - Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, ACA that have grown and grown and have become untouchable holy grails and will only increase our debt - that is where the majority of money is spent.

Raise SS/Medicare age (for younger people), uncap SS income limit, invest SS/Medicare funds in S&P 500 low cost index funds, return to pre-covid government spending (get rid of all covid special funding), institute the DOGE cuts especially foreign aid, return Medicaid to its original intent (for children, pregnant women, disabled, elderly with income limits).

Given the choice between Democrats and Republicans, who do you think will spend MORE and increase yet more government spending on [B]PERMANENT[/B] social programs (instead of [B]EASILY CHANGEABLE[/B] tax policy). Why do you think Biden's administration/Democrats' 2020-24 did not UNDO Trump's tax cuts and [B]raise taxes on the rich[/B] way up? (many of your dream wish) but instead chose increasing ACA subsidies.[/QUOTE]

What is the need for additional taxcuts other than to fill the overflowing pockets of the rich? Taxcuts remove a large portion of the revenue as well, which requires bigger cuts to account for. Do you believe everyone, from the person making a billion in income annually to the person making 30k annually, should pay the same tax rate?

The reason that Republicans use for social cuts, including ACA, is fiscal responsibility. Does fiscal responsibility only apply to programs meant to help the poor/middle-class and not for taxcuts for the rich? I want you on the record here.

As for your last point, I give you this quote:
[QUOTE=j3lademaster]Of the last 16 presidents, 8 have been republican and 8 dem. The only republican to leave office with a smaller deficit than when they came in is Eisenhower. Yes, its a phenomenon we havent seen in 60 years. Bush had record spending, but in Trump’s defense Bush had 2 terms to do it. Trump is a “hold my beer” level federal spender, so when FISCAL CONSERVATIVES vote for these guys I’m thoroughly confused.[/QUOTE]

Why do we need gazillion bases around the world? Why are we still in Germany? How about we bring down the military budget to 600bn rather than raise it to a trillion? Do we really need so many redundant intelligence agencies and bases everywhere? There are so many other potential areas for these cuts that don't hamper social programs.

[QUOTE=bladefd;15037490]Do you have proof that illegals voted in significant numbers?[/QUOTE]

He believes everything Trump says. His word is the ultimate proof.

[QUOTE=bladefd;15037490]Do you have proof that illegals voted in significant numbers?[/QUOTE]

Don't duck my question like you've done in other threads.... why such a fight for no ID required?

Today will be the 8th vote, will Chuck continue to tell his cult Dems to vote no? Continue to chose politics over the people?

[QUOTE=bladefd;15037492]What is the need for additional taxcuts other than to fill the overflowing pockets of the rich? Taxcuts remove a large portion of the revenue as well, which requires bigger cuts to account for. Do you believe everyone, from the person making a billion in income annually to the person making 30k annually, should pay the same tax rate?

The reason that Republicans use for social cuts, including ACA, is fiscal responsibility. Does fiscal responsibility only apply to programs meant to help the poor/middle-class and not for taxcuts for the rich? I want you on the record here.

As for your last point, I give you this quote:


Why do we need gazillion bases around the world? Why are we still in Germany? How about we bring down the military budget to 600bn rather than raise it to a trillion? Do we really need so many redundant intelligence agencies and bases everywhere? There are so many other potential areas for these cuts that don't hamper social programs.[/QUOTE]

As far as I understand, the tax cut rates CONTINUE at the same rate of the past 8 years and not extending them will result in Dems vilifying Repubs as raising taxes. I notice you did not address my question as to why Biden/Dems did not revoke these tax cuts when they were in power if they are so OBNOXIOUS to Dems.

This is the text of the Tax and Spending Clause in the Constitution:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to [B]pay the Debts[/B] and provide for the [B]common Defense[/B] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Debts and Defense are [B][U]SPECIFICALLY[/U][/B] mentioned in the Constitution. SS/Medicare/Medicaid would fall under "general Welfare" - established in 1935 and 1965. So, for 159 years and 189 years of this country's history, they did not exist. Now (in a [B]very short 60 years[/B]) they consume 49% (+10% more if you include Income Security (SNAP)) - for a total of [B][U]59% of the budget compared to defense's 13%[/U][/B]. At this rate, how much are these social programs going to consume over the next 60 years? They will only consume a bigger and bigger percent of the budget.

U.S. Government Spending, FYTD 2025
Top 10 Spending by Category and Agency
[B]22 % Social Security[/B]
[B]14 % Medicare[/B]
14 % Net Interest
[B]13 % Health[/B]
13 % National Defense
[B]10 % Income Security[/B]
5 % Veterans Benefits and Services
[B]3[/B] % Education, Training, Employment, and [B]Social Services[/B]
2 % Transportation
1 % Natural Resources and Environment
3 % Other

** Income Security in the federal budget refers to government programs and tax credits that provide assistance to individuals and families to help with basic needs, especially those who are unemployed, disabled, or have low incomes. This budget function includes a wide range of programs such as unemployment compensation, housing assistance, nutritional aid (like [B]SNAP[/B]), and retirement and disability benefits for federal employees. It also includes refundable tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit.

[QUOTE=bladefd;15037420]Remember how 2018, 2020 and 2022 went? I expect the same this time around.

Too many people decided not to vote in 2024, and I hope Democrats learned from putting forth an incompetent candidate like Harris. Much like 2016, independents are turning on Trump. The Trump administration better push for everything they want right now for policy while they still have both houses of Congress, including making it tougher to vote, activating insurrection act and getting rid of mail-in-ballots.

Whoever runs for president in 2028 on the Republican side will have to distance themselves from Trump.

P.S. Show me proof that illegals have been voting in huge numbers or even significant numbers. I will wait. I don't think you understand the process of becoming an US Citizen.[/QUOTE]

All those illegal immigrants counting towards the census for dem congress seats and their would've been anchor babies turning into future dem voters, gone.

Nobody knows how many illegals vote in various blue states that does absolutely nothing to prevent them from doing so. All we know is they make rules to actively prevent that anyone has to identify themselves as a US citizen before voting. The data of who voted and their SS numbers sits with the states, Trump admin has been requesting it to investigate but the states are denying them the information.

[QUOTE]The confrontation over access to voter data is likely to end up in court. The Justice Department opted to sue Orange County, California, as part of a federal probe into alleged non-citizen voting. Orange County officials have so far declined to share the individuals personal information with DOJ without a court order.[/QUOTE]

[URL="https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/01/politics/trump-voter-demands-social-security"]https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/01/politics/trump-voter-demands-social-security[/URL]

Love all your corny "Trump admin better be shaking in their boots because bla bla bla", you've been spouting the exact same crap for years.

Future dem voters jumping the border are being deported and the actual US dems tell each other not to have kids because of "climate and an unsafe world". Rough times for the party of hate.

[IMG]https://i0.wp.com/blexmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/denzel-washington-training-day.gif?resize=638%2C332&ssl=1[/IMG]

Crickets from blade and Real Men Love Illegals.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15037549]Crickets from blade and Real Men Love Illegals.[/QUOTE]
If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't want to be getting into a losing argument about Trump's illegal immigrant voting bs. The factual statistics on illegal voting show that it just isn't a problem. It's all about Trump's inability to accept that he lost in 2020 and you being the eternal sucker that you are believe him but there's no factual basis to any of it.

Trump just sent 20 billion dollars to Argentina. America First? Deficit spending? Sometimes these things matter and sometimes they don't, apparently.

Why do only Blue states want no ID required to vote? What was the reason for your boy Biden to let over 15mil illegals into the U.S.?

All you do is duck questions, RMLI

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15037565]Why do only Blue states want no ID required to vote? What was the reason for your boy Biden to let over 15mil illegals into the U.S.?

All you do is duck questions, RMLI[/QUOTE]

You may just be dumb enough to think no illegal immigrants entered under Trump and that they are allowed to vote but its a statement of fact that you have to be an American citizen to register to vote. You not knowing this is just you being ignorant. You being ignorant is not a particularly good argument. The states that don't require you to present ID to vote are that way because they figure some of their voters don't have ID, since you asked, but if I lose my license I am still an American citizen with the right to vote. If you are not an American citizen, again, you could never register to vote to begin with. So for your illegal immigrant to vote they would have to use the info of a registered voter to vote in their place. Which registered voters are complaining that someone stole their vote? It would have to be happening in the hundreds of thousands to turn an election in a state. But can you name a state where it happened, say, 20 times? If you can't then it's fair to say it's time to shut up already.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15037568]You may just be dumb enough to think no illegal immigrants entered under Trump and that they are allowed to vote but its a statement of fact that you have to be an American citizen to register to vote. You not knowing this is just you being ignorant. You being ignorant is not a particularly good argument. The states that don't require you to present ID to vote are that way because they figure some of their voters don't have ID, since you asked, but if I lose my license I am still an American citizen with the right to vote. If you are not an American citizen, again, you could never register to vote to begin with. So for your illegal immigrant to vote they would have to use the info of a registered voter to vote in their place. Which registered voters are complaining that someone stole their vote? It would have to be happening in the hundreds of thousands to turn an election in a state. But can you name a state where it happened, say, 20 times? If you can't then it's fair to say it's time to shut up already.[/QUOTE]

Not true. If you're an illegal immigrant but have a drivers license, you can register to vote in many states without any problems at all, just listen to todays' hearing from Minnesota:

[URL="https://x.com/GrageDustin/status/1978135823234064752"]https://x.com/GrageDustin/status/1978135823234064752[/URL]

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15037570]Not true. If you're an illegal immigrant but have a drivers license, you can register to vote in many states without any problems at all, just listen to todays' hearing from Minnesota:

[URL]https://x.com/GrageDustin/status/1978135823234064752[/URL][/QUOTE][url]https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote[/url]

Those are local elections in some states, not National elections. Trump's ceaseless lies about the election being stolen have no merit.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15037572][url]https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote[/url]

Those are local elections in some states, not National elections. Trump's ceaseless lies about the election being stolen have no merit.[/QUOTE]

It's illegal for non-citizens to vote in both state and federal elections across the US and your statement was that it's impossible to register if you're an illegal immigrant. Clearly it's not impossible at all and there's no indication that they handle federal elections any differently than state elections in Minnesota when it comes to voter rolls and who can register. It's my home state and I know they're letting immigrants run wild there, handing out drivers licenses left and right.

It's even right there in your own link:

[QUOTE]Who cannot vote?
Non-citizens, including permanent legal residents, cannot vote in federal, state, and most local elections.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15037573]It's illegal for non-citizens to vote in both state and federal elections across the US and your statement was that it's impossible to register if you're an illegal immigrant. Clearly it's not impossible at all and there's no indication that they handle federal elections any differently than state elections in Minnesota when it comes to voter rolls and who can register. It's my home state and I know they're letting immigrants run wild there, handing out drivers licenses left and right.

It's even right there in your own link:[/QUOTE]Somehow you didn't read the line you quoted. "[I]Who cannot vote? [/I][I]Non-citizens, including permanent legal residents, cannot vote in federal, state, and most local elections."
[/I]
So no, they could not vote in the Presidential elections, which is what Trump is talking about, not who gets elected as the county register of deeds. Which is why you can't find any proof of this epidemic of illegal voting. It doesn't exist.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15037568]You may just be dumb enough to think no illegal immigrants entered under Trump and that they are allowed to vote but its a statement of fact that you have to be an American citizen to register to vote. You not knowing this is just you being ignorant. You being ignorant is not a particularly good argument. The states that don't require you to present ID to vote are that way because they figure some of their voters don't have ID, since you asked, but if I lose my license I am still an American citizen with the right to vote. If you are not an American citizen, again, you could never register to vote to begin with. So for your illegal immigrant to vote they would have to use the info of a registered voter to vote in their place. Which registered voters are complaining that someone stole their vote? It would have to be happening in the hundreds of thousands to turn an election in a state. But can you name a state where it happened, say, 20 times? If you can't then it's fair to say it's time to shut up already.[/QUOTE]

So then what is the REAL reason that you and Dems want as many undocumented illegals as possible in the U.S.?

Why so hell bent on that happening? Why would an administration sue a State (in the country they're in charge of) for adding further protection to keep the illegals (that you're in love with) out of their State?

Surely there's GOTTA BE an obvious answer.

To piss you off.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15037574]Somehow you didn't read the line you quoted. "[I]Who cannot vote? [/I][I]Non-citizens, including permanent legal residents, cannot vote in federal, state, and most local elections."
[/I]
So no, they could not vote in the Presidential elections, which is what Trump is talking about, not who gets elected as the county register of deeds. Which is why you can't find any proof of this epidemic of illegal voting. It doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Who cannot vote?
Non-citizens, including permanent legal residents, cannot vote in [B]federal, state[/B], and most local elections.[/QUOTE]

If illegal immigrants can't vote in federal or state elections, why are they able to register for those elections? How are they not being blocked in the registration process? You can see for yourself at 37:00 in the hearing, in Minnesota the requirements to vote are the same for the different type of elections, so if you can register for state elections you can also for federal.

[video=youtube_share;d4YiUA2Uib0]https://youtu.be/d4YiUA2Uib0[/video]

Anyways, this is a dumb conversation, same as the last years when you were insisting there was no problem with illegal immigration and if there was, it was only due to repubs not agreeing to a new border bill. You'll lie and be fake about anything to try and keep having the conversation go in circles.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15037580]If illegal immigrants can't vote in federal or state elections, why are they able to register for those elections? How are they not being blocked in the registration process? You can see for yourself at 37:00 in the hearing, in Minnesota the requirements to vote are the same for the different type of elections, so if you can register for state elections you can also for federal.

[video=youtube_share;d4YiUA2Uib0]https://youtu.be/d4YiUA2Uib0[/video]

Anyways, this is a dumb conversation, same as the last years when you were insisting there was no problem with illegal immigration and if there was, it was only due to repubs not agreeing to a new border bill. You'll lie and be fake about anything to try and keep having the conversation go in circles.[/QUOTE]

This is mainly a dumb conversation because you insist on defending Trump's lies about a stolen election. You are hanging on some minutes of this hearing in Minnesota when it is established federal law that an illegal immigrant cannot vote in the presidential election. If some local election allows them to vote for some local office based on their local law then whatever but that's definitely a rarity as established by the fact that I asked you guys to come with just 20 cases of something like that when hundreds of thousands would be needed to sway most state elections and all you are coming with is this Minnesota video and your assumption that if they can vote in some local elections then they must be able to vote in federal elections in spite of that being illegal.

[URL="https://www.kare11.com/article/news/politics/verify-undocumented-immigrants-cannot-vote-in-minnesota/89-7814b251-1f43-4570-ae39-65968cddbbdf"]They can't do that in Minnesota, the state that video is from, FYI.[/URL]

I am sure that you have tried to find evidence of this illegal voting epidemic and you can't, but being the bullshit artist that you are, you won't own up to that fact.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15037499]Don't duck my question like you've done in other threads.... why such a fight for no ID required?[/QUOTE]

I have no issue with showing my ID - I have for years.

Do you have proof that illegals voted in significant numbers? Let's see what you have to say here. The burden of proof is on your to show evidence for this claim made.

[QUOTE=rmt;15037529]As far as I understand, the tax cut rates CONTINUE at the same rate of the past 8 years and not extending them will result in Dems vilifying Repubs as raising taxes. I notice you did not address my question as to why Biden/Dems did not revoke these tax cuts when they were in power if they are so OBNOXIOUS to Dems.

This is the text of the Tax and Spending Clause in the Constitution:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to [B]pay the Debts[/B] and provide for the [B]common Defense[/B] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Debts and Defense are [B][U]SPECIFICALLY[/U][/B] mentioned in the Constitution. SS/Medicare/Medicaid would fall under "general Welfare" - established in 1935 and 1965. So, for 159 years and 189 years of this country's history, they did not exist. Now (in a [B]very short 60 years[/B]) they consume 49% (+10% more if you include Income Security (SNAP)) - for a total of [B][U]59% of the budget compared to defense's 13%[/U][/B]. At this rate, how much are these social programs going to consume over the next 60 years? They will only consume a bigger and bigger percent of the budget.

U.S. Government Spending, FYTD 2025
Top 10 Spending by Category and Agency
[B]22 % Social Security[/B]
[B]14 % Medicare[/B]
14 % Net Interest
[B]13 % Health[/B]
13 % National Defense
[B]10 % Income Security[/B]
5 % Veterans Benefits and Services
[B]3[/B] % Education, Training, Employment, and [B]Social Services[/B]
2 % Transportation
1 % Natural Resources and Environment
3 % Other

** Income Security in the federal budget refers to government programs and tax credits that provide assistance to individuals and families to help with basic needs, especially those who are unemployed, disabled, or have low incomes. This budget function includes a wide range of programs such as unemployment compensation, housing assistance, nutritional aid (like [B]SNAP[/B]), and retirement and disability benefits for federal employees. It also includes refundable tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit.[/QUOTE]

To answer your question:
[QUOTE]To repeal the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) and enact new tax laws, Democrats needed a strong, unified majority in both the House and Senate. After winning the presidency in 2020, Democrats only held narrow majorities in Congress and faced resistance from some moderate members. This made a full repeal, which could have been politically challenging, infeasible.[/QUOTE]

I believe you need 60 votes in Senate. Democrats didn't have 60 votes to revoke the taxcuts. Joe Manchin and Krystin Sinema would never back it even as Democrats. A few moderate Democrats wouldn't either.

The only other way would be through budget reconciliation. Democrats would have to disregard the Manchins and Sinemas of the Democrat party, and politically it would look real bad to fracture the party to pass it through. Unlike the Republicans, the Democrats have more fragility. Remember, every state gets two senators. With more red states, it causes moderate Democrats from red states to go against their constituents. They often can't do without losing support in their state.

Biden could have pushed to rescind the taxcuts. Lets consider the circumstances. We were coming out of the COVID economic collapse and shutdowns from 2020 to 2023, so he wasn't going to push for killing taxcut in that situation. In 2024 post-COVID recovery, he proposed increasing taxes though, but he didn't have the votes to get that through Congress [url]https://www.americanprogress.org/article/biden-tax-proposals-would-correct-inequities-created-by-trump-tax-cuts-and-raise-additional-revenues/[/url]

For your other point:
Most Americans support SS/Medicare/Medicaid, including a large majority of MAGA. Good luck killing them and ever winning another election. Republicans know it.

There is the potential to combine healthcare into universal healthcare, but it hasn't been approached by either party. It can potentially save money because it would allow a single agency to negotiate rather than every agency/insurance company for themselves. Take it up with them for not pushing it.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15037545]All those illegal immigrants counting towards the census for dem congress seats and their would've been anchor babies turning into future dem voters, gone.

[B]Nobody knows how many illegals vote in various blue states that does absolutely nothing to prevent them from doing so.[/B] All we know is they make rules to actively prevent that anyone has to identify themselves as a US citizen before voting. The data of who voted and their SS numbers sits with the states, Trump admin has been requesting it to investigate but the states are denying them the information.



[URL="https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/01/politics/trump-voter-demands-social-security"]https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/01/politics/trump-voter-demands-social-security[/URL]

Love all your corny "Trump admin better be shaking in their boots because bla bla bla", you've been spouting the exact same crap for years.

Future dem voters jumping the border are being deported and the actual US dems tell each other not to have kids because of "climate and an unsafe world". Rough times for the party of hate.
[/QUOTE]

That's right. Nobody knows, and there is no proof to say otherwise. We saw the same nonsense arguments in 2020, and the courts laughed Giuliani and other idiots out of the court for lack of proof even after vast investigations. Trump administration tried in 2020, but they had nothing. Are you saying 2024 was different? Trump won that election due to millions who voted for Biden not going to vote.

You are not even an US citizen who lives here. Why do you care from Eastern Europe or Russia or wherever you live and whoever you work for.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15037568]You may just be dumb enough to think no illegal immigrants entered under Trump and that they are allowed to vote but its a statement of fact that you have to be an American citizen to register to vote. You not knowing this is just you being ignorant. You being ignorant is not a particularly good argument. The states that don't require you to present ID to vote are that way because they figure some of their voters don't have ID, since you asked, but if I lose my license I am still an American citizen with the right to vote. If you are not an American citizen, again, you could never register to vote to begin with. So for your illegal immigrant to vote they would have to use the info of a registered voter to vote in their place. Which registered voters are complaining that someone stole their vote? It would have to be happening in the hundreds of thousands to turn an election in a state. But can you name a state where it happened, say, 20 times? If you can't then it's fair to say it's time to shut up already.[/QUOTE]

He and Zen are morons who have no idea what it takes it takes to register to vote.

I had to provide more than one piece of evidence to register. I provided my photo ID and ss number. Both can verify citizenship upon access on system, so either would work. When I voted, I had to sign to match the signature I registered with. There's no same-day registration in my state AFAIK. If someone registered without ID, they are required to provide copy of one of the following to verify name/address in the system:
NJ driver’s license or non-driver ID
U.S. passport
Military or government ID
Bank statement
Utility bill
Paycheck or government check
Any government document showing your name and address

Can an illegal person get these things? Perhaps theoretically can open a bank account for bank statement or own/rent a house in their official name for utility bill or paycheck.

Lets say someone did get that non-photo ID. Are large numbers going to risk felony charges? On the voter registration form, they would have to lie about being US citizen. While being illegal and potential to get thrown out of the country, mind you. They risk instant deportation, prison, and may permanently prohibit them from getting green card or citizenship in the future if there's a pathway. Illegals typically stay far away from any such risks. They are going to risk everything for a vote?

Lets say they lied there too. Next, the county runs a check of your name across DMV, SS, and jury duty databases to verify that you are in one of the systems. If you aren't, county flags you for further checks, which you likely won't pass.

It would take someone insane to attempt all this for a single vote.

[QUOTE=bladefd;15037583]I have no issue with showing my ID - I have for years.

Do you have proof that illegals voted in significant numbers? Let's see what you have to say here. The burden of proof is on your to show evidence for this claim made.[/QUOTE]

I don't care about you showing an ID... why were Dems so adamant about letting in as many undocumented illegals as possible into the country?

Why is it so important to them that they're prioritizing illegals over Americans?