!:POLL:! Amare Stoudemire or Dirk Nowitzki

[QUOTE=Silverbullit]Fine, and those who dunk when they can make an easy layup are strong, I assume?[/QUOTE]
Dunks are the highest percentage shots in the game. Layups very rarely can change the momentum of a game but a well timed dunk can swing the pendulum and make a fellow big think twice about contesting your shot. If I had to choose between a bigman who was a slasher and a bigman who is a jumpshooter I will choose the slasher everytime. The slasher has a greater chance of getting the opposing team in foul trouble and because of that negatively affecting the help defense of the opposing squad. This allows everyone to get to the basket easier, forces perimeter defenders to play off, which in turn allows jump shooters to have an easier time finding their shots.

No big man on my team would be goose-down pillow soft like Dirk, unless he was coming off the bench Matt Bullard style.

[QUOTE=GOBB]Yup, and Dirk mom is Heidi Fliess...she sold that p*ssy to Stern. :applause:[/QUOTE]

Atleast someone paid for Dirk :banana:

[QUOTE=Dasher]Dunks are the highest percentage shots in the game. Layups very rarely can change the momentum of a game but a well timed dunk can swing the pendulum and make a fellow big think twice about contesting your shot. If I had to choose between a bigman who was a slasher and a bigman who is a jumpshooter I will choose the slasher everytime. The slasher has a greater chance of getting the opposing team in foul trouble and because of that negatively affecting the help defense of the opposing squad. This allows everyone to get to the basket easier, forces perimeter defenders to play off, which in turn allows jump shooters to have an easier time finding their shots.

No big man on my team would be goose-down pillow soft like Dirk, unless he was coming off the bench Matt Bullard style.[/QUOTE]

And how much of those glorified dunks are created by the dunker?

[QUOTE=Silverbullit]And how much of those glorified dunks are created by the dunker?[/QUOTE]
Well it takes two to tango. Amare's ability to run the pick and roll to perfection should not be held against him. No one thought Nash was an MVP before he was paired with Amare. Amare was ROY and on his way to a fruitful career before the pairing. Amare isos and does not take 10 seconds off the shot clock to do it. He blows by his man and destroys him. His ability to run the break should not be held against him, because not every big in the game can intelligently run a break. Hell there are many point guards who can't run a fast break. There are reads that have to be read in the fast break and it is way more complicated than most ISHers can comprehend.

This year and probably the next 2 or 3? I'd pick Dirk.

Building for the future? I'd take Amare.

For right now. Amare.

Dirk, and to me it's a no-brainer. Amare is not a franchise player unless he learns to pass.

[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]Dirk, and to me it's a no-brainer. Amare is not a franchise player unless he learns to pass.[/QUOTE]
Dirk is not a franchise player until he learns to defend. The game, like GOAT:MANU, goes both ways.

[QUOTE=Dasher]Dirk is not a franchise player until he learns to defend. The game, like GOAT:MANU, goes both ways.[/QUOTE]

So Dallas has no franchise player, and who is the franchise player of the Suns? Nash? No defender! Amare? No defender! Shawn Marion? Gone....

Yeah, the franchise player is Shaquille O'Neal! :)

[QUOTE=Silverbullit]So Dallas has no franchise player, and who is the franchise player of the Suns? Nash? No defender! Amare? No defender! Shawn Marion? Gone....

Yeah, the franchise player is Shaquille O'Neal! :)[/QUOTE]
:banana: :cheers: :cheers:
good said :party:

[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]Dirk, and to me it's a no-brainer. Amare is not a franchise player unless he learns to pass.[/QUOTE]
Please don't comment on **** you don't know about.. Amare has already improved his passing which is evident by his apg since he moved back to pf. If you would actually watch him play more than a couple times you would know he rarely forces it and is great at finding guys cutting from the baseline.. Not as good a passer as Dirk but he doesn't have to be.. Things aren't as simple as he's not a franchise player until he improves his passing. .Anyways Dirk and Amare are about equal to me right now and the only reason I'm kinds hestitant in saying that is because of Dirk in the playoffs last year. I know he's nowhere near as bad a choker as people say but that still does bring he's value down a little.. Let's not forget that Amare has never had a bad or even average playoff series. Dude always steps up his game.

[QUOTE=statman32]Please don't comment on **** you don't know about.. Amare has already improved his passing which is evident by his apg since he moved back to pf. If you would actually watch him play more than a couple times you would know he rarely forces it and is great at finding guys cutting from the baseline.. Not as good a passer as Dirk but he doesn't have to be.. Things aren't as simple as he's not a franchise player until he improves his passing. .Anyways Dirk and Amare are about equal to me right now and the only reason I'm kinds hestitant in saying that is because of Dirk in the playoffs last year. I know he's nowhere near as bad a choker as people say but that still does bring he's value down a little.. Let's not forget that Amare has never had a bad or even average playoff series. Dude always steps up his game.[/QUOTE]

i'm sorry dude, but dirk leads mavs to THE PLAYOFF, AND NASH LEADs suns to the playoff, and end of the thread.

[QUOTE=Silverbullit]So Dallas has no franchise player, and who is the franchise player of the Suns? Nash? No defender! Amare? No defender! Shawn Marion? Gone....

Yeah, the franchise player is Shaquille O'Neal! :)[/QUOTE]
I never said that Amare was a franchise player. And his defensive inability is overrated. He is not Tim Duncan but he is sure as Hades not as bad as Dirk. He is a slightly above-average defender.

If given the choice between the two I would choose Amare because he actually strikes fear in other teams bigs. They are afraid to challenge him when he gets into the paint. Dirk on the other hand flails wildly and throws up TCBY soft-serve garbage and looks to the refs
to bail him out. Dirk has the mind of a second option and was not/is not ready for the leadership role that being the franchise requires. At this point in his career neither is Amare.

Once again if given the choice I choose Amare.



Second again if given the choice I choose Amare.


And in closing if given the choice I choose Amare.


note:very few ISHers factor in pace when they discuss defense, more possessions equal more scoring opportunities. Points per possession should be the measure of defensive efficiency. This notion was/is championed by the great Chuck Daly himself.

I'll take Amare. Ever since Amare has gotten back to his natural position, da PF, he's been beasting. I've never been a big fan of Dirk, he's a choke.

[QUOTE=statman32]Please don't comment on **** you don't know about.. Amare has already improved his passing which is evident by his apg since he moved back to pf. If you would actually watch him play more than a couple times you would know he rarely forces it and is great at finding guys cutting from the baseline.. Not as good a passer as Dirk but he doesn't have to be.. Things aren't as simple as he's not a franchise player until he improves his passing. .Anyways Dirk and Amare are about equal to me right now and the only reason I'm kinds hestitant in saying that is because of Dirk in the playoffs last year. I know he's nowhere near as bad a choker as people say but that still does bring he's value down a little.. Let's not forget that Amare has never had a bad or even average playoff series. Dude always steps up his game.[/QUOTE]

Of course you have to be a great passer to be a franchise player. You need to be able to create looks for your teammates, command double teams and get your teammates the ball. You have to be some kind of facilitator. His scoring prowess isn't worth half as much as the stats as long as his teammates don't benefit greatly off it. The Suns role players benefit from Nash slashing and passing, not from Amare's isolations and rolls to the basket.

There is a reason the Lakers play best when Kobe operates from the post, and the Bulls were best when Jordan played in the post. They demand double teams and can pass the ball more easily.
There is a reason Duncan's and Shaq's teams were always great, because as post players they commanded double teams and knew how to pass the ball.
There is a reason why Dirk's teams always win 55+ games. Hint: he operates from the (high) post and demands lots of defensive attention.

You know what all great players in history have in common? They created not only for themselves, they created opportunities for the whole team. Amare does not do that (yet).

Passing is the difference between a 'Nique and a Jordan, between a Dantley and a Bird, between a Gilbert and an Isiah Thomas, between a McHale and a Duncan. It's also the difference between Amare and Dirk (right now)

Dirk

[QUOTE=Robens24]Dirk[/QUOTE]

I have no clue why this post was bumped, but it really was a comical read.

It's too bad this thread wasn't revisited summer of 2010....just two short years after it was started.

At least Amare turned out to be the great player everyone touted him to be........:oldlol: :roll: :oldlol:

Dirk was the answer.

[QUOTE=SmackOrH.A.K]I'll take Amare. Ever since Amare has gotten back to his natural position, da PF, he's been beasting. I've never been a big fan of Dirk, he's a choke.[/QUOTE]

Hilarious coming from a Rockets fan :roll: :roll: :roll: