Most popular athlete IN THE WORLD ever to wear no. 23: Jordan or Beckham?

Jordan! No doubt about it

Beckham is extremely OVERRATED! He got popular because of that goal against Wimbledon back in 95 i think

read david halberstam's book "Playing for Keeps: Michael Jordan and the World That He Made" to get a sense of how popular this guy was. If there is no Michael Jordan, there is no David Beckham.

this one indicates stuff too

[url]http://www.nba.com/jordan/jordan_icon_thiel.html[/url]

one quote i find interesting...

"Upon the Bulls' arrival in Paris for the McDonald's Championship in October, 1997, the front-page story in the France-Soir national newspaper began:

"Michael Jordan is in Paris. That's better than the Pope. It's God in person.'' "

and thats a soccer country. god in person is mr. jordan.

jordan was INSANLEY popular in countries were basketball wasnt popular. he MADE a sport internationally popular when it was only really popular here. david beckham happened to play a sport that was already the most popular sport internationally, yet he is failed to make it popular in the US.

plus soccer is gay.

The measuring stick for this debate should simply be how many fans of each athlete are there around the world.

It's simple. Beckham wins in a landslide.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]When I really think about it...is Jordan more famous in his time than Joe Louis in his? In America that is. technology gives more worldwide access to modern guys but hearing about Joe makes me think he may have been bigger here. As popular as Jordan was you wont have damn near all of america sit down to watch/listen(as the case may be at the time) to his games. I dont think anyone modern can approach the level of interest over the Joe Louis/Max Schmeling fight. Hearing about the level of interest....entire towns meeting in one place with dozens of radios so everyone could hear? Nationwide parties after Joe won? Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, and guys like that were probably as big as Jordan for the people who had access to them.[/QUOTE]

Blaze, you're wrong about this subject. I've lived and travelled extensively overseas, and am also very familiar with Jordan's career. The three most famous people in this history of the world are:

Muhammed Ali
Michael Jackson
Michael Jordan

In no particular order. There have been studies done on this issue, etc. etc. Jordan was MOBBED in China like two years ago. This is 10 years after he retired from the Bulls.

I think that being in the US, you really don't have a true grasp on the extend of Jordan's worldwide fame. He wasn't just another very famous athlete, he reached the pinnacle of the famous elite, and I'm talking about on a historic scale.

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]Blaze, you're wrong about this subject. I've lived and travelled extensively overseas, and am also very familiar with Jordan's career. The three most famous people in this history of the world are:

Muhammed Ali
Michael Jackson
Michael Jordan

In no particular order. There have been studies done on this issue, etc. etc. Jordan was MOBBED in China like two years ago. This is 10 years after he retired from the Bulls.

I think that being in the US, you really don't have a true grasp on the extend of Jordan's worldwide fame. He wasn't just another very famous athlete, he reached the pinnacle of the famous elite, and I'm talking about on a historic scale.[/QUOTE]

If you go by what JtotheIzzo said, China is one of the few countries that like basketball more than futbol.

[QUOTE=i seen hippos]The measuring stick for this debate should simply be how many fans of each athlete are there around the world.

It's simple. Beckham wins in a landslide.[/QUOTE]

That has nothing to do with it. Jordan's fame exceeded basketball. People who never watched basketball before or since him watched. I know PLENTY of people like that. They only watched for Jordan and now that he's gone they never looked back.

There are more fans of soccer, I would wager than boxing yet Muhammed Ali is one of the most famous people in history. More famous than all of the top soccer players.

So your premise is false.

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]That has nothing to do with it. Jordan's fame exceeded basketball. People who never watched basketball before or since him watched. I know PLENTY of people like that. They only watched for Jordan and now that he's gone they never looked back.

There are more fans of soccer, I would wager than boxing yet Muhammed Ali is one of the most famous people in history. More famous than all of the top soccer players.

So your premise is false.[/QUOTE]

If you don't think Beckham transcends futbol, then you must have been living under a rock for the last decade.

Again, to me popularity isn't simply "Ya, I've heard of the guy" or "I know what he did". It's "I love the guy" or "He's my favorite".

Of course everyone here is going to pick Jordan and those that did are incredibly biased.

It's David Beckham and it isnt even close.

[QUOTE=i seen hippos]If you go by what JtotheIzzo said, China is one of the few countries that like basketball more than futbol.[/QUOTE]

As I said, not only have I lived and travelled extensively abroad, but I have also read about Jordan and his international fame. At one time, in the mid 90s he was described as the most famous person in the world.

Oh, and I would wager that if he went to South America, Europe or wherever he would still get mobbed there as well.

The fact is that he is one of the most famous people in history, and at the height of his fame easily more famous than Beckham.

Like I said, the only two people that approach him at the height of his fame are Michael Jackson and Muhammed Ali. Tiger may come close, and Madonna but that's it.

[QUOTE=Hawker]Of course everyone here is going to pick Jordan and those that did are incredibly biased.

It's David Beckham and it isnt even close.[/QUOTE]

Wrong. Has nothing to do with bias and everything to do with what I've actually read on the sujbect.

[QUOTE]The game is to answer the question, Who will be the best known person of the 20th century in 5000 years? It's somewhat like asking who will win the Super Bowl in 2050, but better. The famous person question relies on principles that are probably pretty constant over time. The principles that make someone famous today probably made them famous 5000 years ago and will do so 5000 years from now. The object of the game is to figure out what those principles are and, to answer this particular question, who will benefit from them most.

Today the most famous person from the 20th century is probably Hitler, Pele, Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali. Their name recognition is above 90% around the globe. But in the year 7003 no more than a fraction of a percentile will know who these athletes were, and there will probably be many more horrific and brutal people to dilute Hitler's infamy. (I'm not confident we'll be able to keep powerful weapons out of the hands of evil men forever -- especially not for 5000 years. The man responsible for leveling London will be famous for a long, long time.) Hitler's fame also rests largely on the fact that he's not truly history yet -- so many people now living witnessed him and his horrors. That living link gives him salience that will erode over the next thousand years. And as soon as there's a more resonant placeholder for the proposition that evil really does exist in the world, Hitler's role in the popular imagination will wither away.

It's possible that the winner is a sleeper -- someone who's scarcely above the noise now. The fame of Muhammad and Van Gogh has grown exponentially over time. Who knows, maybe Glenn Reynolds's star is just rising.

My best answer for the question is a person who today might be known by 50% of the world. Maybe a lot more or a lot less. I'm sure he's not known by 98%, like Muhammad Ali supposedly is, but he's not a dark horse, either. But in 5000 years I suspect he'll still be known by a significant number of people, and he'll certainly be better known than Einstein, Churchill, FDR, Pope John Paul II or any living athlete or entertainer. [/QUOTE]

...

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]As I said, not only have I lived and travelled extensively abroad, but I have also read about Jordan and his international fame. At one time, in the mid 90s he was described as the most famous person in the world.

Oh, and I would wager that if he went to South America, Europe or wherever he would still get mobbed there as well.

The fact is that he is one of the most famous people in history, and at the height of his fame easily more famous than Beckham.

Like I said, the only two people that approach him at the height of his fame are Michael Jackson and Muhammed Ali. Tiger may come close, and Madonna but that's it.[/QUOTE]

Beckham doesn't get mobbed?:roll:

Unless you provide me with the Word document that you typed up in highschool, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I think you are definitely underestimating the Beckham hype machine around the world.

[QUOTE=Hawker]Of course everyone here is going to pick Jordan and those that did are incredibly biased.

It's David Beckham and it isnt even close.[/QUOTE]

It's not biased,all you have to do is a read up on it and you'll find the simple answer is that Jordan was more popular at his height than Beckham.Even Ali probably was more known than Beckham

You guys must have seriously never left the country if you think there is any current athlete ever to have as much international popularity as Jordan, and Beckham?!? Sure most people would know his name but that doesn't make him anywhere near Jordan in terms of popularity. People are more likely to have been fans of Zidane outside of the USA, where soccer trumps tabloid marraiges. Whoever mentioned Tiger Woods as being almost as popular as Jordan internationally is crazy because most of the world doesn't care about golf. The most popular sports internationally are soccer and tennis, with basketball rising fast, and those are the sports where you can find names almost everyone knows. It's a testament to how insanely marketted Jordan was that he is known everywhere even before basketball became very popular in these places.

People everywhere have clothes that say Jordan on them. If you mention you're from North Carolina in China they all instantly bring up Michael Jordan, because that's in their middle school text books. Seriously there is no comparison esp. with Beckham.

That quote you just posted about who will be best known is wrong, Knoe.

History books revolve around leaders, not athletes.

I will be suprised if anyone knows Ali in 5000 years. Every scholar in 5000 years will know Hitler. Every religious scholar will know JPII.

[QUOTE=i seen hippos]That quote you just posted about who will be best known is wrong.

History books revolve around leaders, not athletes.

I will be suprised if anyone knows Ali in 5000 years. Every scholar in 5000 years will know Hitler. Every religious scholar will know JPII.[/QUOTE]

*sigh*

The point is that the most famous people in the 20th century were Hitler, Jordan, Pele Ali and I would say Michael Jackson.

Jordan is more famous than Beckham, you're just wrong.

that fact that this topic is being brought up even though michael jordan hasnt played in 5 years; and he hasnt played for the bulls when he was really well known for TEN years, shows you how its no debate. honestly, i dont even know what david beckham looks like.

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]*sigh*

The point is that the most famous people in the 20th century were Hitler, Jordan, Pele Ali and I would say Michael Jackson.

Jordan is more famous than Beckham, you're just wrong.[/QUOTE]

Right now they might be in the top 10, but you quoted something that specifically said 5000 years from now. Read your quotes before posting them please.

Nobody will know Jordon or Ali in 5000 years.

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]*sigh*

The point is that the most famous people in the 20th century were Hitler, Jordan, Pele Ali and I would say Michael Jackson.

Jordan is more famous than Beckham, you're just wrong.[/QUOTE]
Are these based on fact because I'm surprised to see Hitler and no Stalin. I have met a Vietnamese man who didn't know of Hitler I was kind of surprised but then if a country doesn't have do much world history and the kids don't go to school it doesn't surprise me. Because the regions they influenced I wouldn't surprised if Stalin is more famous than Hitler. SE Asia and the istans didn't have any contact with Hitler and poorer countries typically don't have as much attention to world history.

I also really doubt Mohammad Ali is that well known don't know what kind of study that was.

The only reason for Becks' popularity is that soccer is bigger than basketball worldwide, and he haven't done anything much for soccer other than being popular. Beckham is still an extremely skilled footballer though.

[url]http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=david+beckham&word2=michael+jordan[/url]

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]*sigh*

The point is that the most famous people in the 20th century were Hitler, Jordan, Pele Ali and I would say Michael Jackson.

Jordan is more famous than Beckham, you're just wrong.[/QUOTE]

The thread is 'popular' not 'famous'. Jordan is more famous than Beckham, but I don't think he's that much popular. Think about popularity, look, every fan of the NBA knows who is Kobe Bryant, this means he is famous among NBA fans. This DOES NOT mean he is popular among NBA fans. There is the slight but crucial difference.

As for Pele? He is famous, no doubt, but I remember posting in a football thread months ago about the greatest football players, and I posted pele as one of them, and some people asked 'Who's pele?" (it made me cringe, but I remembered I was on ISH).

And I think that article which you quoted from underestimated knowledge, people like Plato, Socrates, Homer, Pythagoras, Aristophanes, they lived 2000 years ago, but their names still live on. 50% of the population? Certainly not. But their fame still exists, however small. To a lesser extent, Chinese mythology documents kings up to 5000 years ago.

And the 90% figure, that people like Hitler, Ali etc are known to 90% to the people on the world, in fact, I refuse to believe it. You cannot tell me with a straight face that 6,037,830,090 people on this Earth (since 0.9 x 6,708,700,100) know who Hitler is. It is impossible.

[QUOTE=brantonli]The thread is 'popular' not 'famous'. Jordan is more famous than Beckham, but I don't think he's that much popular. Think about popularity, look, every fan of the NBA knows who is Kobe Bryant, this means he is famous among NBA fans. This DOES NOT mean he is popular among NBA fans. There is the slight but crucial difference.

As for Pele? He is famous, no doubt, but I remember posting in a football thread months ago about the greatest football players, and I posted pele as one of them, and some people asked 'Who's pele?" (it made me cringe, but I remembered I was on ISH).

And I think that article which you quoted from underestimated knowledge, people like Plato, Socrates, Homer, Pythagoras, Aristophanes, they lived 2000 years ago, but their names still live on. 50% of the population? Certainly not. But their fame still exists, however small. To a lesser extent, Chinese mythology documents kings up to 5000 years ago.

And the 90% figure, that people like Hitler, Ali etc are known to 90% to the people on the world, in fact, I refuse to believe it. You cannot tell me with a straight face that 6,037,830,090 people on this Earth (since 0.9 x 6,708,700,100) know who Hitler is. It is impossible.[/QUOTE]

At least someone defines popular as I do.:D

[QUOTE=brantonli]The thread is 'popular' not 'famous'. Jordan is more famous than Beckham, but I don't think he's that much popular.[/QUOTE] Definitely disagree there. Beckham is not in the same stratosphere of popularity. Well, maybe in the UK, but in the rest of the world it is Jordan in a landslide.

[QUOTE=yobore]Definitely disagree there. Beckham is not in the same stratosphere of popularity. Well, maybe in the UK, but in the rest of the world it is Jordan in a landslide.[/QUOTE]

Hmm, yeah I think I'll have to change my views (go flipflopping!) after thinking about it. Here in Hong Kong, football is probably more popular than basketball (even that's a hmmmm), but I think the reason why Jordan is more popular is because of the diversity in football. You've got Cristiano Ronaldo, fat Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rooney, Henry, Beckham, so many different clubs representing so many different sides of football. But for basketball, in general there Jordan and...uhh.....who?

The face of football is much more varied than the face of basketball. But then, there's the definition of popularity as well, somebody who supports a certain player, and I'm not sure even Jordan had nearly had much popularity as his fame. Nowadays, go to basketball courts, anywhere, and you see more people with jerseys like Bryant, Anthony, James, Wade, McGrady and it makes me wonder how much popularity does Jordan has. Of course, it helps Beckham that he's still playing.

This is making my head ache.....good night everybody.

[QUOTE=brantonli]and I'm not sure even Jordan had nearly had much popularity as his fame. [/QUOTE]


^^^:lol

Beckham has never been universally adored both within and outside his sport in the way that Jordan was. Maybe Beckham is as famous, but he's certainly not considered one of the greatest players of all time. Barely one of the greatest players of his era. He had a couple of years while at Utd that a case could be made for him to be the best player in the game, but even then it was highly debatable. There were numerous other football players in Beckham's era that were close to his level of popularity and adulation. There was no one in Jordan's era who came close.

all this reffering to "football" makes me dizzy. its called soccer. football is played in pads and helmets on sundays in the fall with gigantic men hitting the crap out of each other. soccer is what david beckham plays. lots of running and lots of bordem.

First of all, if there is one person overrated in this thread, it's Tiger Woods. WTH? How can you even begin comparing him to Beckham and Jordan? Unheard of. I know he's a big shot in USA but trust me, if I asked anyone in Europe who Tiger Woods is, they'd not so vividly say "I don't know" or "oh yeah that golfer". Other than the fact that he's black and a golfer, no one knows anything more about him. If that.

Now moving on, do you folks know what's the second most popular sport worldwide? You'd be surprised..formula 1 racing. That's right. Any of you heard of the chaps like Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso, Rubens Barichello and others? Don't think so. But yeah, those dudes may be more popular, probably are then the guys like Duncan, Garnett and maybe even some legendary players like say Dr. J. In fact, I'd bet on it.

Now, Beckham vs Jordan? Here's the thing. Beckham is more popular and better known while Jordan is more iconic. Jordan is a basketball icon, a sports icon and an apparel icon. Beckham on the other hand is not iconic. He's just the biggest thing in everything. Is he a soccer icon? No, that's Pele. However, Beckahm is the most recognizable player ever. Is he a fashion icon? Maybe. If not, surely the most recognizable athlete in that department, for those reasons. Is he the biggest celebrity ever amongst athletes? Yes.
Now you see, MJ was famous for being a great basketball player. That's why he had a celebrity status, that's why he was known. Beckham on the other hand is known for being famous, for being David Beckham. He has exceeded the status of an athlete. He's everywhere. He's everything.
And my oh my, those who even begin comparing the popularity of basketball to the popularity of soccer have another thing coming in their sight. Have everyone forgot about South America? Two giant ass countries that are Brazil and Argentina? I haven't seen them be mentioned here. Well yeah, let's just put it this way. Worldwide popularity and recognition, Jordan despite being iconic, doesn't touch Beckham, believe it or not. A lot of people are likely to hear for both, however, more likely to hear about Beckham, more likely to know about him. Ge goes so far beyond soccer, far beyond being a celebrity, if there's a thing Beckham, it's worldwide, it's enormous. As iconic as Jordan is, he just doesn't have that impact. Likely even because people like having him as an Iconic God like figure so they don't want to dig up any dirt on him or damage his image whereas whatever comes with the Beckham name on it, it's everywhere and everyone know about it. And just thinking right now, if I asked all the girls I know, from all over the Europe about either Beckham or Jordan, it would not be close. And you know, there are a lot of women in the world. Something most here tend to ignore and just looking at it through the world of sport, what is bigger football or basketball where FYI Becks wins again. At everything. Absolutely everything. Jordan is no his equal.

Furthermore, all of you claiming Becks isn't a great soccer player need to STFU. He was greatness. Do you folks have any idea, at all, how hard it is to be the best player in the world or one of as a winger? To be the instrumental part of your team? Well, Beckham was just that. From his right side it's where most of the Man Utd danger ever came from, where everything was orchestrated, where RVN scored million goals from, getting crosses from the Becks. As a winger. You have any idea? It's literally unheard of. It's like rook being the most important figure in chess. It just doesn't happen. Beckahm however became the best a a winger.

And those claiming he isn't clutch, OH PLEASE. Give me a break. Do you have any idea how big was Beckham's free kick vs Greece? You don't. Let's put it this way, [B]CLUTCHER, MORE IMPORTANT THING THAN ANYTHING EVER OF JORDAN. [/B] Don't even get me started. It was movie stuff. Unheard of. Long odds. Heroic. Redeeming. Historic.
[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=4vPaw3ImXfY[/url]
That's just once in a lifetime. You cannot possibly match that. Nothing Jordan can do. Not to mention how much harder is it to score a free kick at that time and under how much pressure was Beckham at the time.

In short, Beckham. At everything. End.

[QUOTE=gotbacon23]all this reffering to "football" makes me dizzy. its called soccer. football is played in pads and helmets on sundays in the fall with gigantic men hitting the crap out of each other. soccer is what david beckham plays. lots of running and lots of bordem.[/QUOTE]


No, it's football. It's only known in the USA as soccer. It's football. WTH do helmets and pads, even if they're worn on sundays have to do with the name football, something that would indicate a freaking game being played with geez....I dunno...foot? and a ball?

the GOAT basketball player wearing 23 his entire career or a borderline top 1000 football player wearing 23 in the twilight of his career?


Hmmmm, tough one.

In the states for sure Jordan no questions
But in the world thats a toss up.

[QUOTE=gotbacon23]all this reffering to "football" makes me dizzy. its called soccer. football is played in pads and helmets on sundays in the fall with gigantic men hitting the crap out of each other. soccer is what david beckham plays. lots of running and lots of bordem.[/QUOTE]
errr no its football, not soccer which is a name we made up here. Look at it this way, unlike american football atleast people actually use their feet to play the game. We should change american football to be named soccer and refer to REAL football as footbal. It only makes sense.

[QUOTE=LJJ]the GOAT basketball player wearing 23 his entire career [B]or a borderline top 1000 football player [/B]wearing 23 in the twilight of his career?


Hmmmm, tough one.[/QUOTE]


Post eliminated and ignored due to author clearly not having a freaking clue about the whole situation.

Well, that's just the thing here, All of Beckham > whatever of Jordan. So what if he only wore 23 after joining Madrid? So what? He still made it huge, not because of the number but because he's David Beckham. People just somehow underestimate how far beyond soccer Beckham goes, to how many ventures and some even understate how much popular soccer is.Honestly, is basketball even a top 5 sport worldwide? I'm not to sure. Could be. But I'm not sure. Even so, Beckham is still above Jordan. Thank you very much.

[quote=Emile]Post eliminated and ignored due to author clearly not having a freaking clue about the whole situation.

Well, that's just the thing here, All of Beckham > whatever of Jordan. So what if he only wore 23 after joining Madrid? So what? He still made it huge, not because of the number but because he's David Beckham. People just somehow underestimate how far beyond soccer Beckham goes, to how many ventures and some even understate how much popular soccer is.Honestly, is basketball even a top 5 sport worldwide? I'm not to sure. Could be. But I'm not sure. Even so, Beckham is still above Jordan. Thank you very much.[/quote]
Only people in the States even know about Beckham wearing number 23. And football isn't one of the bigger sports in the USA by a long shot.

You think anyone in Europe still cares about Beckham? Really? :oldlol:
This isn't 1999 son.

Pick the biggest celebrity in the world today. No, not an athlete. A celebrity. People who tend to be known much more than athletes because they're so mainstream. Who is it? Well, whoever it is, David Beckham is in the conversation. And probably tops the list. And it's been that way for a while. So his recognition goes far beyond someone being iconic in the worlds top 10, maybe top 5 sport.

when I was still in asia a decade ago, I think when jordan was still playing. People there knew who he was as in his name. But they didn't know who he really is. At one point I thought he was 7 feet 10 cause I assumed all basketball players are tall and since he's good he must be really tall.

I mean people don't wear his jerseys. People buy ronaldo and beckham's jerseys. People know what position they played and what team. Jordon they knew he was a basketball player and that's it, don't know anything about the bulls or some didn't even know there was a thing called the nba

[QUOTE=LJJ]Only people in the States even know about Beckham wearing number 23. And football isn't one of the bigger sports in the USA by a long shot.

You think anyone in Europe still cares about Beckham? Really? :oldlol:
This isn't 1999 son.[/QUOTE]

There are like 350 million people in the States if I'm correct. Comparison wise, there are like 50 million people in England. 60 million in Germany. Around 50 million in France and Italy. Spain. Just bringing up some of the western Europe countries where soccer clearly is number 1. Yeah, those 6 countries combined have like 350 million people. Brazil? Close to 200 million. Argentina around 50 million. See where I'm going with this? Need I bring up Russia, Turkey, Arabic countries and so on? Or countries like Poland, Korea, whatever?

David Beckham is up there with the likes of Madonna. Michael Jordan being the icon of one sport, the sport that isn't nearly as popular, he doesn't touch Beckham. Sorry. Not to mention Beckham's mainstream fame.

And if you think no one cares about Beckham anymore, you're highly mistaken. Do you know that he's sold more jerseys of LA Galaxy than all soccer player in the world last year sans for 4 of them? Sorry. Becks > Mj.

[QUOTE=LJJ][B]Only people in the States even know about Beckham wearing number 23.[/B] And football isn't one of the bigger sports in the USA by a long shot.

You think anyone in Europe still cares about Beckham? Really? :oldlol:
This isn't 1999 son.[/QUOTE]

Considering he first wore that number in Madrid, considering it sold astronomically the first day, considering Madrid played in Champions league and considering the gigantic audience and popularity of the Champions league, somehow I doubt what you say is true.

hard to say......BECKHAM is very popular in the world pop culture...he's very hollywood and MTV because of his wife and looks.......i would put my money that many young and current professional bball players world wide wanted to be jordan....

on a pure athlete status...i think jordan had more influence....during jordan's prime, there was no athlete more popular....

celebrity status...i think beckham is ..