Jordan would average 45 ppg in today's league.
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Jordan would average 45 ppg in today's league.
[QUOTE=tpols;14967770]Thats the hilarious irony of it. :lol
Defenders wouldn't be guarding him like that today, hed be guarded just like any other star wing that presently exists, and that would make his 1st step even more deadly.
It is amazing how he consistently blew by guys that were playing 5+ feet off him. Doesn't even make sense. And they knew he was mostly going right and they still couldn't stop it.[/QUOTE]
Why does this sound like you're talking about LeBron? Because all the same things apply as much as it chafes your chub lol.
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"DOMINANT CHAMPIONS" THAT AVERAGED 1 LOSS PER ROUND OR LESS (4 LOSSES MAX) SINCE 1997 AND THE 1ST OPTION FOR THAT RUN:
[Indent]
1. 2017 Warriors (16-1)........... DURANT
2. 2001 Lakers (15-1).............. SHAQ
3. 1999 Spurs (15-2)............... DUNCAN
4. 2024 Celtics (16-3).............. TATUM
5. 2023 Nuggets (16-4)............ JOKIC
6. 2007 Spurs (16-4)............... DUNCAN
7. 2002 Lakers (15-4).............. SHAQ
8. 1997 Bulls (15-4)................ JORDAN[/indent]
"DYNASTIES" THAT MOSTLY WON FOR A MATERIAL STRETCH OF 5+ YEARS (I.E. 3 IN 5) AND THEIR 1ST OPTION:
[indent]
1. Chicago Bulls..................... JORDAN
2. San Antonio Spurs.............. DUNCAN
3. Los Angeles Lakers............. SHAQ
4. Golden State Warriors......... CURRY[/Indent]
Since possession-tracking began in 1997, bigs or jumpshooters were required at 1st option for 8 of 8 "dominant champions" that averaged 1 loss or less per round for their title run (4 losses max), and 4 of 4 "dynasties" that mostly won for a material stretch of 5 years (i.e. 3 in 5).. So that's 12 of 12 instances of dynasties or dominant champions (the best basketball) where primary ball-handlers were NOT the 1st option in favor of bigs or jumpshooters.. Since the best bigs and jumpshooters produce the best basketball, they're superior to the best ball-dominators, which easily puts guys like Lebron and Oscar out of the top 10 for anyone that doesn't want them to be there - i.e. since primary ball-handlers cannot be 1st option for the best basketball, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can.
The issue is that high-scoring primary ballhandlers like Luka, Lebron or Harden score large amounts without being assisted by teammates (low assisted rates), so they have a large volume of unassisted buckets that hinders ball movement.. Otoh, highly-assisted 1st options like bigs and jumpshooters produce high assist teams and foster the great ball movement that every dynasty has.. Since 1997, players that averaged 25 ppg and above 50% assisted rate had top 5 assist teams 36 of 87 times (41%) and averaged 10th in team assists, while players that averaged 25 ppg and below 40% assisted rate (primary ballhandlers) produced top 5 assist teams 5 of 96 times (5%) and averaged 18th in team assists.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14967743]That's absurd. Players might not put him above Kobe, or even some fans might not, but it's disingenuous to say he isn't respected. He's put together quite a resume to not be respected.[/QUOTE]
Almost everyone who isn’t an obsessive hater has him over Kobe atp. They did a player poll on GOAT and it was just MJ and LeBron getting votes.
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14967821]Why does this sound like you're talking about LeBron? Because all the same things apply as much as it chafes your chub lol.[/QUOTE]
Ĺebron didn't really blow by guys nearly as often as MJ. He shouldered n elbowed them out the way with his momentum as a primary weapon. They have different styles.
[QUOTE=RRR3;14967824]Almost everyone who isn’t an obsessive hater has him over Kobe atp. They did a player poll on GOAT and it was just MJ and LeBron getting votes.[/QUOTE]
Yea, which is understandable at this point.
That current RealGM poll with 567 total votes has 91 votes (16%) for candidates other than Jordan (63%) and Lebron (21%).
[url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2301069[/url]
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14967992][url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2301069[/url][/QUOTE]
Nice try.
[url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2393113[/url]
It's not even close.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14968000]Nice try.
[url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2393113[/url]
It's not even close.[/QUOTE]
That's what bransexuals do, instead of just dealing with the truth lol.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14968000]Nice try.
[url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2393113[/url]
It's not even close.[/QUOTE]
Sorry bud, the link I posted was an actual project by realgm instead of a random poll where random people can vote.
LeBron the GOAT!!
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14968006]Sorry bud, the link I posted was an actual project by realgm instead of a random poll where random people can vote.
LeBron the GOAT!![/QUOTE]
Guess what....that's how CONSENSUS is defined. By the number of people who hold a subjective opinion, i.e. a POLL.
Try really hard - I'm sure you can understand this.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14968007]Guess what....that's how CONSENSUS is defined. By the number of people who hold a subjective opinion, i.e. a POLL.
Try really hard - I'm sure you can understand this.[/QUOTE]
So you value the opinion of casuals? No surprise from someone who thought Don Nelson was a HOF player.
LeBron > MJ. Deal with it.
[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbZznPCHymD0jww5SExLWjTQdlWTPT3LQsfQ&s[/IMG]
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14968012]So you value the opinion of casuals? No surprise from someone who thought Don Nelson was a HOF player.
LeBron > MJ. Deal with it.
[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbZznPCHymD0jww5SExLWjTQdlWTPT3LQsfQ&s[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Jordan still being consensus GOAT 20 years after retirement REEEEEEEAAAAAAAAALLY eats at you, huh? :roll:
If Lebron still isn't GOAT, then he never will be. Deal with it.
:lebroncry:
[QUOTE=tpols;14967867]Ĺebron didn't really blow by guys nearly as often as MJ. He shouldered n elbowed them out the way with his momentum as a primary weapon. They have different styles.[/QUOTE]
You've obviously never watched young Lebron then. The guy who with no bag was blowing by people at will from a stationary dribble lol. As he matured and gained experience then he starred using his body more, but it was still mostly speed based until he bulked up big in Miami and even then he still was getting blow bys.