Phil Jackson: Rodman is the greatest athlete I've ever coached

[QUOTE=Loki]Carter has a case. Rodman, however, is [b]nowhere near[/b] as athletic as Jordan. Nowhere near. I'm not sure how anyone can even say this with a straight face. How the hell are you measuring athleticism? :oldlol:

And there were certainly not a "lot" of people more athletically gifted than Jordan. [i]Maybe[/i] 6-7 guys all time if you include all positions, and those are all arguable.[/QUOTE]
lol how does he get all those rebounds? He sure as hell not have a great basketball IQ. Jordan was very strong for his position, that helps him a lot but a lot of guys are more athletic than him. But you're Jordan hardcore fanatic so I understand.

[QUOTE=iamgine]He sure as hell not have a great basketball IQ.[/QUOTE]
Rodman didn't have a great basketball IQ? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Younggrease]Why do you assume work ethic + athletism = automatic great skills...Sorry but if you spendt time around ball players you will see it doesnt work like that. Some people just have a knack for certain things and some just are bad at certain things.[/QUOTE]

Why are you even in this thread? Aren't you in high school? Did you ever even SEE Rodman play?

First off, you're wrong. Rodman had an extremely high basketball IQ, great body control, great athleticism, and was probably a harder worker than 95% of the league. He was also extremely intelligent, and had was one of the greatest mental opponents to ever play the game.

Let me ask you about something else you probably never saw first hand since you're SOOO worldy. Do you know what Jimmy Johnson's drafting strategy was?

He used to collect as many draft choices as possible, and draft players who score high on intelligence tests, had good personalities, and were gifted athletically. It didn't matter what stats they put up in college, he wasn't interested in that. He was interested in the other 3, because that meant he could teach them.

He turned out more quality players in his coaching tenure, than a lot of guys ever turn out in their careers.

Because if someone has the basics, they can learn to do other things.

BTW, smart guy. Did you know that Rodman averaged 26 points per game in college?

Why don't you spend a little time watching a little basketball and learning a little bit about sports before you start running your god damn mouth at me?

Mathius

[IMG]http://members.westnet.com.au/flippy/books/images/badasiwannabe.jpg[/IMG]


Very enjoyable read. You really get a look into his mind.

He played some major mind games with Malone during the finals. He turned that guy into putty. I wonder if they hang onto Horace Grant instead of getting Rodman, if the finals end in the same result? He was so key for those Bulls teams. Phil Jackson knew how to coach a guy like that. Wasn't a micromanager. Do what you want in your free time, but show up and be ready to play.

[QUOTE=Younggrease]
yeah I think you got me wrong...you say im in high school?? im a law student..[/QUOTE]

Ah, right. This is you: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101160[/url]

The broke a$$ college student. Still, doesn't matter. If you've ever seen Rodman play, I can almost guarantee you weren't much older than 10.

[QUOTE]you say I havent played ball....I started at a D3 for 3 years and spent 2 tours playing ball overseas...say I havent watched ball and I have been playing and watching since I was 5...But let me guess you pretend to coach or something...I have done that too...[/QUOTE]

Nice rant, but I never said d[COLOR="Black"]ic[/COLOR]k about you playing ball. It's irrelevant to the conversation. Learn to read.

[QUOTE]And then dude goes off about football[/QUOTE]

So are addressing someone else now? Just clarifying. Before it was "you" now it's "dude". Work on your tenses there. It's helpful for communication. Don't teach you that in law school?

[QUOTE] which is hardly analogous to bball...[/QUOTE]

I can't wait to hear why it's not analogous to basket ball. Are you saying that people with athleticism, intelligence, and a good attitude can learn to play football, but they can't learn to play basketball?

[QUOTE]then he brings up that Rodman averaged 26 points a game against like D2 players...Horace Jenkings did the same thing and so did a bunch of other guys..He was just a class better then them as an athlete. Reggie Evans would have averaged 26 a game at 20 in D2 too.[/QUOTE]

The point had nothing to do with comparisons of level of competition. You argued that Rodman doesn't have the skills to score and can't be taught to score, but evidently he can score on someone because 26 points per game is quite a lot of points for someone who came to the NBA and didn't even want to shoot.

[QUOTE]Basketball isnt like that...you cant just project and athlete to work hard and this just get skills...Its not like its easy to get to just get the basics. Rodman would have to change his whole jumpshot and its a hard thing to do...Plus he would have to develop some sort of handle and feel for the post....[/QUOTE]

And you're ignorant enough to believe that Rodman didn't already have those skills and just chose to not use them. It's not hard to change jump shot mechanics. That's why shooting coaches have jobs. That's why players improve their shooting percentage over the years, or become three point threats later in their careers. It's called working at it until it becomes habit.

What does playing in the post have to do with anything anyways? From a skills standpoint, it's much easier than playing the wing or god forbid, point guard.

[QUOTE]But you seem to think that just because he is athletic and has a feel for the game he would be as good as MJ...What a tool...why dont you stop the internet tough guy routine, get a life, get some *****...and then stick to another sport because you obviously dont much about bball. And its even more obvious that you never played any ball at a high level...you have no understanding for how hard even average players work on their skills and how often it doesnt work out for them.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and you're a disrespectful punk, but I don't let that get in the way of conversation.

There's a big damn difference between those players and Rodman. Those players all have flaws, or just plain aren't good to begin with. Rodman was a damn good basketball player who stopped working on his offensive game and chose to devote all his time to defense and rebounding.

I could sit here and list all the reasons why other players fail, but I don't have that kind of time.

Mathius

[QUOTE=Mathius]See, you f*cking idiots think you know everything. When I say something you guys give me sh*t and call me a moron.

I said a LOOONG time ago that if Dennis Rodman had put as much effort into his offensive game as he did his defensive game, he'd have been as good as Michael Jordan, if not better. The guy was as mentally focused as they come, and was just as athletically gifted as any other guy.

Do you know how much more physical (muscle) effort it takes to keep tipping the ball and jumping up and down continuously like Rodman did, then it does to just glide in and dunk the ball?

Mathius[/QUOTE]

[B]Rodman was athletic but had no Offensive Skills. You can`t just Become Talented Over Night :no: . Some Coordinations are Natural and for Rodman. Rebounding, Playing D and Hustlce with his athletic gifts was natural but not Shotting, Passing, Creating, Post Game etc...:confusedshrug: [/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Rodman was athletic but had no Offensive Skills. You can`t just Become Talented Over Night :no: . Some Coordinations are Natural and for Rodman. Rebounding, Playing D and Hustlce with his athletic gifts was natural but not Shotting, Passing, Creating, Post Game etc...:confusedshrug: [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, the Charles Barkley troll says Rodman couldn't be a good offensive player, so that settles it I guess.

Mathius

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Rodman was athletic but had no Offensive Skills. You can`t just Become Talented Over Night :no: . Some Coordinations are Natural and for Rodman. Rebounding, Playing D and Hustlce with his athletic gifts was natural but not Shotting, Passing, Creating, Post Game etc...:confusedshrug: [/B][/QUOTE]that's not true rodman did have offensive skills he actually had a nice little fadeaway jumper he used early in his career, you know he averaged 11.5ppg on 56% his second year in the league? but only 8 rebounds per game...

in the 89 season he was ranked 3rd in the league in offensive rating, same year he lead the league in FG%, not bad for a guy with no offensive skills eh?

he focused on his defense and rebounding as his career evolved knowing a top rebounder and defensive player will always have a starting spot on any roster, bruce bowen is another that has made a career by putting his offensive needs second...

[QUOTE=gts]that's not true rodman did have offensive skills he actually had a nice little fadeaway jumper he used early in his career, you know he averaged 11.5ppg on 56% his second year in the league? but only 8 rebounds per game...

in the 89 season he was ranked 3rd in the league in offensive rating, same year he lead the league in FG%, not bad for a guy with no offensive skills eh?

he focused on his defense and rebounding as his career evolved knowing a top rebounder and defensive player will always have a starting spot on any roster, bruce bowen is another that has made a career by putting his offensive needs second...[/QUOTE]

[B]Could Rodman average 20 PPG with a 50 plus FG% for his whole career? :no:
Was He An Offensive Threat to Other PFs? :no:
Was He Doubled and Tripled Teamed Off and On the Post? :no:
Could He become the Go to Go Guy Offensively and Carry a Team That Way? :no:

Don`t Get Me Wrong he had a nice Jumper, Was A Fast Dude that Would Catch Nice Passes on the Break or By Setting Him Up for an Easy Basket but he was not Talented Offensively but Defensively. And as the Years Went He Worked Hard Adding the Rebounding etc..[/B]

I gotta agree with Mathius on this one, isn't kind of funny that maybe the 2 greatest rebounders and defenders of their eras(Russell and Rodman) focus lead to their championships( in rodman the next 3 peat, in Russell the 11 chapionships). Horace grant was great, but he was no rodman( on Orlando Horace was that good though). I believe Jordan to be one of the greatest NBA players of all time, but to act like there isn't players that have better understanding of the games( Magic, Bird) and could have been better than Jordan is out right luDACRIS, ( jORDAN not Isa ).

[QUOTE=iamgine]lol how does he get all those rebounds? He sure as hell not have a great basketball IQ. Jordan was very strong for his position, that helps him a lot but a lot of guys are more athletic than him. But you're Jordan hardcore fanatic so I understand.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

Again, [B]please define athleticism[/B]. Let's say Rodman's stronger -- okay, what else? And Jordan was very strong, mind you. Then Jordan [b]sh!ts[/b] on Worm in speed/quickness, body control, coordination, leaping, dexterity. Just takes a big steaming dump on him. Rodman isn't even in Jordan's universe as an athlete. "A lot of guys" were more athletic than Jordan? Try [i]arguably[/i] 5-7 players in history and you'll be closer.

Let me know when you have anything coherent to say.

I wouldn't bet against Rodman beating Jordan in a weightlifting or speed contest. He was also very coordinated for his size.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]I wouldn't bet against Rodman beating Jordan in a weightlifting or speed contest. He was also very coordinated for his size.[/QUOTE]

Jordan could pretty handily outrun Rodman. Weightlifting probably not. And he didn't have elite coordination like MJ/Carter/Kobe.

[QUOTE=Loki]:oldlol:

Again, [B]please define athleticism[/B]. Let's say Rodman's stronger -- okay, what else? And Jordan was very strong, mind you. Then Jordan [b]sh!ts[/b] on Worm in speed/quickness, body control, coordination, leaping, dexterity. Just takes a big steaming dump on him. Rodman isn't even in Jordan's universe as an athlete. "A lot of guys" were more athletic than Jordan? Try [i]arguably[/i] 5-7 players in history and you'll be closer.

Let me know when you have anything coherent to say.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: all we need is look at old videos.

Let me know when you have better credentials than Phil Jackson to speak.