The 00's = the death of defense in the NBA? No contact league?

[QUOTE=plowking]Learn something about basketball.

The OP and yourself are ridiculously dense if you believe Jordan would be scoring 40 points per game this era.

There is hardly any chance. He would be a 30-37ppg scorer in his prime just like he was in his era. His numbers wouldn't change that much apart from slightly worse shooting.[/QUOTE]

That's absolutely ridiculous
I mean absolutely ridiculous and UNFOUNDEDLY RETARDED!

Jordan averaged 41 points per game in the NBA finals, averaged over 40 points per game for half of an entire season, averaged over 40 points per game in the playoffs for an entire playoff run. You have got to be out of your everloving mind to think his shooting % would be lower today when the man averaged over 55% shooting percentage on half a season and ended up at 54%. Jordan was in the top 10 in the NBA for field goal percentage in his prime, INCLUDING THE BIGS.

See, unlike your opinion, mine MATTERS because I grew up watching Jordan and I remember in his prime it seemed like he would make 2 out of every 3 shots. He destroyed teams with the mid-range jumper coming off screens. Rip Hamilton destroys teams with the mid-range jumper coming off screens.

LeBron James is shooting nearly 50% with a much less effective jumper than MJ had.

I'll say that again, LeBron James is shooting nearly 50% with a MUCH LESS EFFECTIVE JUMPER THAN MJ HAD.

WHY IN THE HELL DO PEOPLE POST OPINIONS WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT? :wtf:

[QUOTE=bruceblitz]That's absolutely ridiculous
I mean absolutely ridiculous and UNFOUNDEDLY RETARDED!

Jordan averaged 41 points per game in the NBA finals, averaged over 40 points per game for half of an entire season, averaged over 40 points per game in the playoffs for an entire playoff run. You have got to be out of your everloving mind to think his shooting % would be lower today when the man averaged over 55% shooting percentage on half a season and ended up at 54%. Jordan was in the top 10 in the NBA for field goal percentage in his prime, INCLUDING THE BIGS.

See, unlike your opinion, mine MATTERS because I grew up watching Jordan and I remember in his prime it seemed like he would make 2 out of every 3 shots. He destroyed teams with the mid-range jumper coming off screens. Rip Hamilton destroys teams with the mid-range jumper coming off screens.

LeBron James is shooting nearly 50% with a much less effective jumper than MJ had.

I'll say that again, LeBron James is shooting nearly 50% with a MUCH LESS EFFECTIVE JUMPER THAN MJ HAD.

WHY IN THE HELL DO PEOPLE POST OPINIONS WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT? :wtf:[/QUOTE]

And just to piggy back of this post.....

Wade shoots above 45% (don't feel like looking up his stats) and he only plays from ONE SIDE OF THE FLOOR.

Wade plays almost exclusively on the left side and even then he's limited.

Jordan was an absolutely great player and has a very strong case for GOAT, but i agree with fatal9 and stephanie that his myth has reached absurd standards as has the myth of the current era's inferior defense. Every sport improves, the players simply get better. Basketball is no exeption. Would Jordan be the best player in the game today? Probably, but he would not be head and shoulders above the rest and he would not be putting up better stats than he was in the 80s and 90s.

[QUOTE=easydoesit]Jordan was an absolutely great player and has a very strong case for GOAT, but i agree with fatal9 and stephanie that his myth has reached absurd standards as has the myth of the current era's inferior defense. Every sport improves, the players simply get better. Basketball is no exeption. Would Jordan be the best player in the game today? Probably, but he would not be head and shoulders above the rest and he would not be putting up better stats than he was in the 80s and 90s.[/QUOTE]

Cool

But you do know that at the age of 40 he was putting up stats equaled or better than some of today's so called "superstars" which were 15 years younger than him, right?

And I would usually agree with you, in regards that everything has to naturally evolve (improve). But sadly, that isn't the case in the NBA.

Yes I agree, some aspects have improved, but unfortunately many aspects have actually "deteriorated."

For the reasons I've stated in this and the other Bruce thread.

Its an entire system wide and philosophy downward spiral that has taken place over the last dozen seasons or so.

Rule changes, younger players, no real sense of team worth, etc.etc.

So while the avg player has evolved into stronger, faster, bigger and better athletes (even that's somewhat debatable), other aspects have fallen.

I guess its the world self correcting itself trying to keep things balanced. The ying and the yang, the positive and the negative, the ren to the stimpy, the Balki to Larry, you get the hint.

[QUOTE=plowking]

Due to this, his FG% would most likely decrease as well to around 46-51% each season.[/QUOTE]

LMAO @ this. :oldlol: Jordan was a far better scorer than James or Wade, who are shooting like 48-50%, and who have averaged ~30 ppg on 48% in the past. LOL @ thinking Jordan shoots 46% in this era. Maybe if he averages like 37.5 ppg. But at 31-33.5 ppg he's going to be at 49.5-51.5% shooting.

What would Lebron be shooting if he shot even 40% on his 2-point jumpers? Something like 52%, I'd wager (I may even do the math later; you can work this out from 82games.com numbers). Jordan shot a lot better than 40% on his midrange jumpers while being an equally good penetrator and finisher. He's shooting 51% today without a problem. Don't kid yourself.

:oldlol: Always makes me laugh how some people have truely forgotten how good Michael Jordan actually was.

[QUOTE=andgar923]Cool

But you do know that at the age of 40 he was putting up stats equaled or better than some of today's so called "superstars" which were 15 years younger than him, right?

And I would usually agree with you, in regards that everything has to naturally evolve (improve). But sadly, that isn't the case in the NBA.

Yes I agree, some aspects have improved, but unfortunately many aspects have actually "deteriorated."

For the reasons I've stated in this and the other Bruce thread.

Its an entire system wide and philosophy downward spiral that has taken place over the last dozen seasons or so.

Rule changes, younger players, no real sense of team worth, etc.etc.

So while the avg player has evolved into stronger, faster, bigger and better athletes (even that's somewhat debatable), other aspects have fallen.

I guess its the world self correcting itself trying to keep things balanced. The ying and the yang, the positive and the negative, the ren to the stimpy, the Balki to Larry, you get the hint.[/QUOTE]

He may score a lot at forty, but it doesn't mean jack if u can't win. Anyone can score with more shots, but can the score when it matters, like winning?

3 second defensive rule, in combination with the defensive restricted zone in the paint, means that the post defender is extremely limited. If his man spreads out, he has to follow in 3 seconds. This opens up the paint for the perimeter player looking to penetrate, because he doesn't always have to worry about the paint defender. Even when he can rotate back in time, if he doesn't establish perfect position (aka feet set, and outside the restricted line), then it's an AUTOMATIC call for the offensive player.

Sure, the implementation of the zone can disrupt some offense for a short time, but it can be beaten. The way the paint players are restricted, as well as the softer contact being called, means the perimeter players have an easier time putting up points, either from scoring or getting to the FT line.

For these reasons, MJ would DESTROY the league today. He would play the Wade role, by constantly attacking the rim and getting to the line, or if he was forced to be a jumpshooter like Kobe was in the finals last year, he would pick apart teams because of his more consistent jumpshot (especially off the dribble on pull ups and creating using his back to the basket).

[QUOTE=Showtime]3 second defensive rule, in combination with the defensive restricted zone in the paint, means that the post defender is extremely limited. If his man spreads out, he has to follow in 3 seconds. This opens up the paint for the perimeter player looking to penetrate, because he doesn't always have to worry about the paint defender. Even when he can rotate back in time, if he doesn't establish perfect position (aka feet set, and outside the restricted line), then it's an AUTOMATIC call for the offensive player.

Sure, the implementation of the zone can disrupt some offense for a short time, but it can be beaten. The way the paint players are restricted, as well as the softer contact being called, means the perimeter players have an easier time putting up points, either from scoring or getting to the FT line.

For these reasons, MJ would DESTROY the league today. He would play the Wade role, by constantly attacking the rim and getting to the line, or if he was forced to be a jumpshooter like Kobe was in the finals last year, he would pick apart teams because of his more consistent jumpshot (especially off the dribble on pull ups and creating using his back to the basket).[/QUOTE]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[QUOTE][QUOTE=amfirst]He may score a lot at forty, but it doesn't mean jack if u can't win. Anyone can score with more shots, but can the score when it matters, like winning?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE][B][COLOR="Red"]Jordan was only one of two players to average more than 25 points, 5 assists, and 5 rebounds as he led the Wizards to a 26

2005-present: zone, handchecking not allowed, but selectively enforced
2001-2004: Handchecking+Zone defense
90s : Isolation

[IMG]http://images2.sina.com/english/sports/2009/0114/U138P200T1D211730F8DT20090114193007.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r87/kvartuc/Celtics.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aIF7WH8op0Rf/610x.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02bubhGdxKd3H/340x.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2008/05/18/P20-080518-34.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://nbcsportsmedia1.msnbc.com/j/apmegasports/200806122326843902921-pf.widec.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6836/kobereversedunk.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-01/08/xin_00201060816581712411813.jpg[/IMG]

^ haha how many times is Albroz going to have his argument debunked?

Myth 1: Zone + Handcheck

Debunk: Zone wasn't widely used when first allowed. At the time, many coaches didn't implement it, some didn't coach it well or like to use it, and players weren't accustomed to using it. The teams that DID use it didn't use it as their primary defense, and like a press defense, it was used sparingly in short durations to disrupt an offense. Saying a player played in the "zone era" when man to man is still the most popular and widely used defense means this myth is total BS.

Myth 2: Zone > M2M

Debunk: Zone defense is different, not superior to man. Zone has players guard areas of the court, and an effective zone can limit penetration by cutting off the lanes. This can be countered, however, by ball movement and player positioning. If it's a sloppy zone, then it's even easier. Zone isn't perfect, and can be exploited with ball movement, player positioning, and outside shooting.

Nate Robinson would have dominated Jordan. On both ends. And in dunk contests.

[QUOTE=BirdOverrated]
duh
uh, I'm stupid.
I like to discredit anything not named Kobe
[/QUOTE]

Jordan vs "Isolation"
[IMG]http://cdn.newsone.blackplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/michael_jordan1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/celebsm/michaeljordan/michael_jordan_1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.geocities.com/NBA_Superstars2002/images/Michael_Jordan52.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.iconsportsmedia.com/image_dir/album25954/md_9590108%20%20Michael%20Jordan%20Bulls.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.michael-jordan-23.com/uploads/pics/michael-jordan-reverse-layup.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.mm52.com/occidentalidols/michael_jordan/michael_jordan_069.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.customauthenticjerseys.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/michael-jordan.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0705/gallery.nba.playoff.comebacks/images/1993.bulls.jordan.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.prweb.com/prfiles/2008/12/30/174044/MichaelJordanSI1984.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q307/Willser94/fadeaway45jersey.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du-C-TvHqzA[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqgIT3hLInY[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUkuQQxh-pc[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5auPSMaD3vE[/url]

[QUOTE=Showtime]^ haha how many times is Albroz going to have his argument debunked?

[/QUOTE]

Forgive Alborz, he's a homosexual who likes to be dominated.
:D