[QUOTE=robertshaw_1]Top Ten Players Ever in Order.
1) Wilt Chamberlain
2) Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3) Michael Jordan
4) Hakeem Olajuwon
5) Larry Bird
6) Magic Johnson
7) Kobe Bryant
8) Scottie Pippen
9) Oscar Robertson
10) Tim Duncan
11) Shaquille O
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[QUOTE=robertshaw_1]Top Ten Players Ever in Order.
1) Wilt Chamberlain
2) Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3) Michael Jordan
4) Hakeem Olajuwon
5) Larry Bird
6) Magic Johnson
7) Kobe Bryant
8) Scottie Pippen
9) Oscar Robertson
10) Tim Duncan
11) Shaquille O
[QUOTE=D-Rose]:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Why the hell is Scottie Pippen #8 on that idiots list?
[QUOTE=Alhazred]Take it up with the NBA, then.
[url]http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19801981.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Dude, he wasn't even looking for his shot at all. I'm not sure his exact FGA numbers but he barely took like 10 shots in a couple of those games. There was one, mayybe two, bad shooting games he had the entire series (bad shooting game to me is when you take 15+ shots and shoot poorly). Even more hilarious during this "choke moment" Bird would get a near triple double in every one of those games. EDIT: checked his FGA...and he took only 11 shots in two of those games, he spent his time playmaking (usually for Maxwell/Parish) and rebounding. at that point in his career, Bird literally never forced the issue, that is, he wasn't someone you would isolate repeatedly and ask to score (most his shots were off screens/plays, offensive rebounds, fast break etc etc). Only someone who hasn't seen a single game would cite that series as a "choke", and considering your posting history, it's clear you haven't seen that (or 99% of the games you discuss). So maybe instead of citing an obscure nba.com article, you could make an effort to watch the game instead of looking at point totals and drawing conclusions.
A choke moment for Bird would be the 1988 series vs. Detroit, not a finals series where he was the best player.
[QUOTE=catch24]Why the hell is Scottie Pippen #8 on that idiots list?[/QUOTE]
didnt read this thread....?
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]
I do find myself defending him [b]when people call his MVP undeserved[/b] or that Gasol is the MVP of the team(which is both trash), but I just wish people would stop putting him up there with Jordan and acting like he was as good as Shaq during the 3peat because that's the other extreme.[/QUOTE]
[i]How[/i]? :wtf: Who deserved it more than him that year, Alonzo? :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=catch24]Why the hell is Scottie Pippen #8 on that idiots list?[/QUOTE]
and Shaq at 11.
robertshaw you have ZERO credibility after seeing that list oh man :roll:
[QUOTE=D-Rose]and Shaq at 11.
robertshaw you have ZERO credibility after seeing that list oh man :roll:[/QUOTE]
shaq is 11
[QUOTE=robertshaw_1]didnt read this thread....?[/QUOTE]
What does 1991-93 have to do with his career ranking being totally off?
[QUOTE=Alhazred][i]How[/i]? :wtf: Who deserved it more than him that year, Alonzo? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
I meant Kobe's 2008 award. Many claim he didn't deserve it which I disagree with 100%.
[QUOTE=catch24]What does 1991-93 have to do with his career ranking being totally off?[/QUOTE]
1- Defense wins championships, Offense wins games.
2- Pippen was the GREATEST defensive player to ever play the game.
3- Pippen, then, is top ten player al time.
4- IMO
[QUOTE=robertshaw_1]1- Defense wins championships, Offense wins games.
2- Pippen was the GREATEST defensive player to ever play the game.
3- Pippen, then, is top ten player al time.
4- IMO[/QUOTE]
1-Saying defense is more important then offense is stupid
2-There were plenty of better defensive players then Pippen. Just in his era alone, let alone all time.
[QUOTE]Funny thing is, Jordan fans turn into Shaq fans in that and find a way to underrate the hell out of Kobe....Shocker.[/QUOTE]
:lol Good point. The only time they rooted for Kobe was the 2000 WCF.
[QUOTE]Believe it or not, it's not simply diehard Jordan jockers who believe this. I've talked to some old school Pistons and Celtics fans back in my Youtube days of basketball discussion who stick him with that label. Well, that's what the dumbasses think, at least. I remember this one Bird fanboy who called Scottie a "dumb kid". He hated Jordan, too.[/QUOTE]
All I do on YT is watch videos so I can't speak to what people say there. I am not saying the only people who believe it are Jordan fans. What I am saying is the only people who actively push that line as part of an agenda all happen to be Jordan fans. Not all Jordan fans hate Pippen, but nearly all who hate Pippen are Jordan fans.
[QUOTE]Speaking of Magic, check his 1981 performance in the first round. He actually air balled a game deciding shot! Bill Simmons mentions it in his book.[/QUOTE]
True, and Kobe and Jordan also had similar moments (98', 95') but you never hear about that, and deservedly so. They were anomalies. The thing with Pippen is for years one game where he was not even 100% has been pushed. The other game you always hear about is the 2000 WCF Game 7 but there is zero context given on Pippen as a player at that point (some of the people who bash him for 2000 don't even know that Pippen in 00' was not anywhere near 98' Pippen and it is obvious what the big change was: his back injury), how massive underdogs Portland was (did anyone pick Portland to win at the time? Portland stumbled to the finish line and was facing the Shaq/Kobe/Rice 67 win juggernaut with Shaq having arguably the GOAT season), and the minor detail that Pippen dislocated his finger in Game 5. "He willed them back from the brink of elimination...". (they were down 1-3) That wasn't me. That was Bob Costas. Pippen had a monster Game 5 to keep the series alive: 22 points, 6 boards, 6 assists, 5 steals, and 4 blocks all with a dislocated finger and at a million years old. In other words, without that game there would never have been a Game 7. Basically all of Pippen's best playoff games from 1999-2003 were elimination games (99', 00', 02', 03'). I'll talk more about that in the 1999-2003 thread but don't you think this is an odd trend? A "choker" having his best playoff game in a given year in elimination games? :wtf:
[QUOTE]How? Who deserved it more than him that year, Alonzo? [/QUOTE]
He meant Kobe's MVP in 08'.
[QUOTE=Fatal9]Dude, he wasn't even looking for his shot at all. I'm not sure his exact FGA numbers but he barely took like 10 shots in a couple of those games. There was one, mayybe two, bad shooting games he had the entire series (bad shooting game to me is when you take 15+ shots and shoot poorly). Even more hilarious during this "choke moment" Bird would get a near triple double in every one of those games. EDIT: checked his FGA...and he took only 11 shots in two of those games, he spent his time playmaking (usually for Maxwell/Parish) and rebounding. at that point in his career, Bird literally never forced the issue, that is, he wasn't someone you would isolate repeatedly and ask to score (most his shots were off screens/plays, offensive rebounds, fast break etc etc).[/QUOTE]
Fatal, I mentioned that Bird made up for it with his passing and rebounding. He did have trouble scoring on Reid, though, you have to admit that. He did average 22 points a game that year in the playoffs, after all.
Here is a link to the box scores.
[url]http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1981.htm#Game%20#3[/url]
Game 3
Bird had 3/11 field goals
Game 4
3/11 field goals
Game 5
5/16 field goals
The only reason I mentioned the 81 series is because it's comparable to some of Scottie's games where he'd have a poor shooting night but still contribute in other ways like game 5 of the 98 Finals, sorry if it sounded as if I was saying Bird had a bad performance overall. "Choke" was definitely the wrong term.
Even the announcers agree with me on this.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr-XEqQFYCc&feature=related[/url]
Skip to 1:35 and the announcers mention Reid's performance defending Larry.
Game 5 link below.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYoVrTNIJ8A&feature=related[/url]
"Larry Bird can do other things than score, he doesn't need to score, but boy, they're gonna have to get more than eight points from him."
At 1:25 they also mention Bird watching videos of Reid trying to figure out how to be more effective offensively.
[QUOTE=robertshaw_1]1- Defense wins championships, Offense wins games.
2- Pippen was the GREATEST defensive player to ever play the game.
3- Pippen, then, is top ten player al time.
4- IMO[/QUOTE]
:roll:
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]I meant Kobe's 2008 award. Many claim he didn't deserve it which I disagree with 100%.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, misread.