[QUOTE=indiefan24]read[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=indiefan24]read[/QUOTE]
I can't read, I can only write.
hate
It
Just wait till next season when we will really be able to tell how much he has declined.
[QUOTE=Younggrease]well I'll guess that Kobe would be better than Malone in his 14th year...and also I'll take over 97-98 Malone any day of the week, there is something about Malone that he couldnt get baskets during winning time and teams started clamping down on defense. I'll take the guy who gets it done during winning time.[/QUOTE]
This. Having seen both play, Karl Malone was a perfect example of why stats don't tell the whole story. Still, some good company to be in whether it's Kareem, Shaq, MJ...Karl. It isn't the age, but the mileage as they say.
It's NOT that he's on the decline, but the nagging injuries IMO. He was still 31 at the beginning of the season (shooting close to 50% and averaging, what, 30-35ppg?). Come playoff time we'll see, but I still believe it's his finger(s).
[QUOTE=StacksOnDeck]When you consider the fact that Kobe played so many more games than Karl cause he went further in the playoffs a lot more times than him, it's not comparable.[/QUOTE]
You have an excuse for everything. Nevermind the fact that Karl Malone was starting from the time he entered the league, he missed just 5 games in his first 13 seasons and he was older than Kobe.
No excuses, Jordan, O'Neal, Malone and arguably Kareem were all better in their 13th season than Kobe.
However, before injuries hurt Kobe's season, he was playing some of the best basketball of his career.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]You have an excuse for everything. Nevermind the fact that Karl Malone was starting from the time he entered the league, he missed just 5 games in his first 13 seasons and he was older than Kobe.
No excuses, Jordan, O'Neal, Malone and arguably Kareem were all better in their 13th season than Kobe.
However, before injuries hurt Kobe's season, he was playing some of the best basketball of his career.[/QUOTE]
O'Neal :rolleyes:
Shaq '06 > Kobe '10? Eh, guess it's arguable.
[QUOTE=StacksOnDeck]O'Neal :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=catch24]Shaq '06 > Kobe '10? Eh, guess it's arguable.[/QUOTE]
Shaq in the 2004-2005 season was in his 13th season, 2nd in MVP voting and many thought he was robbed. Kobe is currently better than Shaq has been since that season, though.
[QUOTE=indiefan24]Bryant has lost a step, as do most players who've logged as many minutes as he has. His shooting this season, however, is no worse than any of his previous seasons (except from 3-point range). In fact, it's slightly better this season (46%) than his career average (45.5%).
Even if his fingers heal completely by the start of next season, we cannot expect his shooting to improve by a significant margin. If anything, it's his weary legs that account for his dismal shooting from 3-point range. As Ray Allen has stated several times, success from that distance is largely determined by lift provided by the legs.
Bryant, whose legs have endured more NBA minutes than Allen, has begun to show the signs of age and wear. This season, he is averaging about two more minutes per game than his career average and his resultant fatigue has been reflected in his pathetic 32.5% shooting from downtown. Bryant has partially compensated for his shooting struggles from distance by developing a very solid mid-range, fadeaway jumper (similar to MJ) that will prolong his career somewhat, but this may not work over the longer term.
The problem, of course, is that many defenders have figured out that Bryant is no longer the long-range threat he once was. As a result, they play a step off him closer to the basket. This accounts, in part, for Bryant's seeming inability to get past his man and to the rim with the ease he showed in his youth. This problem will only be exacerbated as Bryant continues to slow down with age.
I don't believe Bryant will be able to enjoy the same level of success that Jordan did in the latter years of his career. For one thing, Jordan was a much better passer than Bryant and was able to pass out of double-teams in the post with a much higher degree of success than Bryant has ever shown. If Bryant becomes more of a post player, he will only make it easier for teams to double or triple team him. Will he be able to find the open man in such situations? I don't think so.
Secondly, Jordan never relied on his three-point shooting to the extent that Bryant has throughout his career. As a result, the shift to a mid-range game may be a bigger problem for Bryant. Bryant has used his range to draw defenders to the perimeter and create lanes to the basket in the past. Now, as defenders begin to lose respect for his 3-point shooting, the paint will be more clogged as they play a step closer to the basket.
Thirdly, Jordan was always a higher percentage shooter (roughly 50% over his career) than Bryant, so he and his teams were able to enjoy success with that shooting ability.
Bryant, as noted above, has never shot a high percentage (not even 47% during a single season), so I'm less certain that he and his teams can enjoy as much success if Bryant's perimeter game is deteriorating. You can only be successful shooting a lower percentage if many of your shots are worth three-points instead of two. But if you shoot a lower percentage than the opposition on two point shots, then you will struggle to keep pace with most teams.
Unless Bryant can raise his shooting percentage to 50% or above, the Lakers will increasingly have games where Bryant's inferior shooting hurts his team's chances for victory (as we have seen far too many times in the past). Personally, I agree that Buss gave Bryant too much money for what he'll be able to provide over the next 3-4 years.[/QUOTE]
Wonderwoman - Bride of Darkseid
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTUJiyDXiMc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTUJiyDXiMc[/URL]
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Shaq in the 2004-2005 season was in his 13th season, 2nd in MVP voting and many thought he was robbed. Kobe is currently better than Shaq has been since that season, though.[/QUOTE]
04-05 Shaq was def better (in the regular season) than Kobe currently, I agree. For some reason, I thought Shaq was in his 13th year during the 05-06 season...You're right though.
He's lost a step.... that's common sense. He's in his 14th year in the league. How are the rest of the 1996 draft doin: Iverson (not playing), Marbury(not playing in NBA), Camby(good role player), O'Neal(good role player), Z? It's more than normal that he's declining. What's not normal is that he's still playing at such a high level when his contemporaries are not.
Even at a clearly visibly declining stage he is still a top five player in the league. What I mean by that is, when your playing a game and you have an opportunity to pick five players to choose from, 90%+ percent of the time you will have Kobe among your five picks. That in itself is an amazing accomplishment given the minutes and games he's played.
He's played all 164 games the last two seasons, bringing 2 finals appearances and a championship. Out of those in his draft, only Allen Iverson and Ray Allen have played more minutes...barely, yet those two are clearly not the kind of force that Kobe is still today.
Essentially, there is no one that was picked in or around the same draft as Kobe that still plays at the all - star / borderline elite level that Kobe is playing at today.
Someone mentioned how Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, etc. were all still playing at a high level respective to the year they were in the league and to Kobe's current predicament. What are we arguing about here? That Kobe isn't a MJ, Shaq, or Kareem? Ok... less than .1 % of the players in the NBA are.
What i'm trying to get at is that the majority finally understanding that Kobe is taking that drastic decline [B]just now[/B] is in itself an amazing testimony to the legend of Kobe Bryant's physical and mental take to the game.
Kobe declined? I believe NOT! He's better today than he was a few yrs. ago. His game is highly advance, he has many options to score. The main question should be, who can stop Kobe? As of today, nobody. I'm not a Kobe fan nor I do not like the Lakers. However, Kobe is a once in a life time great player. LeBron James is next - if he can avoid knee injury.
[QUOTE=catch24]04-05 Shaq was def better (in the regular season) than Kobe currently, I agree. For some reason, I thought Shaq was in his 13th year during the 05-06 season...You're right though.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, 2005-2006 was when Shaq really seemed to age IMO and fall from the game's true elite. I mean he was declining to some degree in 2003-2004, but I attributed a lot of that decline to the chemistry problems on the team and sharing the ball with Kobe, Malone and Payton.