There is one reason why Michael Jordan is the greatest of all-time

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]That is irrelevant. 55 wins. Even if we accept that with Jordan they would win 70 the fact is they remained an elite team without him. How can this be? They were scrubs, right? :roll:

Kerr averaged something like 3 points a game against the Knicks and was Orlando's 12th man the previous year. Kukoc played only 18 minutes a game in the playoffs. Is the argument that adding these players equals Mr. "70%"? That is strange...[/QUOTE]


No, it's not irrelevant at all. 92, before the olympics, same team won 67, pretty much maxed out. 93 team coasted through the regular season. Added Kerr (GOAT 3PT shooter whom Jordan set up many a time), and Kukoc (soft, but very versatile), and both players thrived in the bulls system with Jordan.

If MJ never retired, no Pete Myers, but they keep grant, pippen, and add Kerr and Kukoc, you are looking at 70+ wins and another ring. Easy.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]That is irrelevant. 55 wins. Even if we accept that with Jordan they would win 70 the fact is they remained an elite team without him. How can this be? They were scrubs, right? :roll:

Kerr averaged something like 3 points a game against the Knicks and was Orlando's 12th man the previous year. Kukoc played only 18 minutes a game and put up 9/4/3 in the playoffs. Is the argument that adding these players equals Mr. "70%"? That is strange...[/QUOTE]

Scrubs? I never said that. They were a championship team with good pieces and players who knew their roles to perfection. They were a 2nd round team with a very talented, but questionable leader in Pippen

[QUOTE=Dbrog]SMH :hammerhead:

Yes, his team was filled with people who should be 3rd string or in the D-League. The amount of Jordan hyperbolizing on this board has gotten out of hand. Pippen + kukoc < Pau + Bynum? :no: :banghead:[/QUOTE]


thing is people reinvent pippens greatness like crazy. its so retarded to me, and kukoc's legacy is crazy overrated also.

back then pippen was not considered a top 5-10 player, only after the fact does he get on these all time top 50 lists with a bunch of idiots reinventing the 80's. Pau would be equivalent to a Karl Malone back then, considering Pau is a top 3 PF iin this league today. Bynum could easily be a top 3 Center in the league today also. Pippen was barely arguably in the top 5, and only the D whores put him on that lvl, but he just wasn't one of those top players until the year where MJ was hurt and he started to carry them but that happened sort of late, and definitely not throughout his career. kukoc was just a good player, never a superstar, and its just dumb how twisted their greatness has been exaggerated in hindsight.

its a joke to me people try to downplay MJ while hyping Pippen/Kukoc. i swear only the biggest retards will do that, because if you actually watched bball back then and have a half decent memory of it, MJ was on a completely different lvl than everyone else. Pippen wasn't close to Magic, bird, or MJ lvls, and he wasn't even on the tier right below them, altho i'm not saying he wasn't really good in his own right. just not the all time great superstar a lot of idiots and D whores have reinvented him in hindsight :rolleyes:

i mean players like malone, payton, duncan, the admiral, etc. were all easily better than pippen. so yeah relatively speaking kobe has a way better supporting cast than MJ did. MJ just made everyone around him better, and once they became that triangle machine the PJ's system carried them a lot too. but player for player superstar talent wasn't there for MJ like it is for Kobe today period.

[QUOTE=RazorBaLade]Kobe never had someone who can take over a game by himself like Jordan did when he wasn't playing great. Kobe knows that its all on him, we saw what happens when Pau is trusted to make a clutch play (not counting the putback layup, but I mean if he even choked that..) Good bigs are great to have but having someone that can create his own offense is greater. I mean Pippen would be top 50 on the list of the biggest hater of all time, gasol at this point is not top 50 on the list of biggest laker fan.[/QUOTE]


you're an idiot. for the affect Pau has had since joining the lakers, and the amount of easy baskets and rebs they really shouldn't be getting if they didn't have Pau or even Bynum(let alone odom), saying what you just said is completely retarded.

and its not like there is room for other chuckers on that team with kobe there :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=RazorBaLade]Jordan and Shaq would have collapsed before 3 years. Kobe on Bulls have a better chance at 6 rings than Jordan and Shaq have at 3. Jordans ego is bigger than Kobe's. Shaq started flipping out when Kobe was being praised as the NEXT michael jordan, can you imagine how he'd be if announcers were telling him he's the 2nd option? And prime jordan WOULD want to be the 1st option.[/QUOTE]

please stfu. you have no clue wtf you're talking about.

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Haha Jordan and Shaq could have been hilarious. The insane worker Jordan with fatty Shaq.

Jordan: It

[QUOTE=guy]Although I don't think Lebron is completely to blame, LOL @ everyone that prematurely tried to say Lebron was better then Jordan was through this stage of their careers.[/QUOTE]


lebron is a better physical specimen but athletically they're very arguable. MJ just had the will of fire. OP's right, its what separates him from almost everyone else, even the old timers that people pretend are GOAT.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]SMH at this. Without Mr. "70%" the shift between the Knicks-Bulls in 94' versus 93' was a play or two here and there. Google Hue Hollins...Plus, since MJ retired at the last possible minute the Bulls had to replace him with a D-League scrub who was out the NBA for the previous 2 seasons. Imagine that team with a legit NBA starter; hell even a legit NBA 7th man at SG!



He is now to basketball fans what Reagan is to conservative Republicans: not a historical figure like he should be but a demigod with a panpoly of myths surrounding him. Even things Jordan/Reagan did are things "X would never do" (i.e. amnesty for illegals in 86', having 5 losing seasons); things they did not do are things they "did" (compromise, win with scrubs, etc.).



And? The same could be said about any elite team from the 90's. MJ's team was 2 games from the 1 seed without him and 51-21 when Pippen played (#2 in the league behind Seattle!). Enough said.

I don't see how Kobe is relevant to this thread but, while Kobe has no top 20 of all-time teammate like Jordan did, Kobe's team as a whole is more stacked than Jordan's. He has no Pippen but more options overall. Plus, his current team is more stacked relative to the L than Jordan's best teams.

Regarding MJ never having an elite center, and? You don't need that when you have the two best perimeter players of the era on the same team![/QUOTE]


hope you're not saying pippen was the 2nd best perimeter player of the 80's?

[QUOTE=TheTruth11][SIZE="4"]His mind. [/SIZE]

His mind which lead to relentless determination and will to win. Heart! He had it.... and you can't teach it.

Lebron will go down as one of the greatest of all time. But thus far, I have not seen this quality from him. Put MJ on the Cavs and they win that series. Or atleast take the Celts to a game 7.

Kobe is close but Kobe failed to show up a few times as well when they should have won it all. MJ never failed to deliver. The most fierce and ferocious competitor the game has ever known with the possible exception of one Bill Russell.[/QUOTE]

Actually, he abandoned his team to go play baseball.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]That is irrelevant. 55 wins. Even if we accept that with Jordan they would win 70 the fact is they remained an elite team without him. How can this be? They were scrubs, right? :roll:

Kerr averaged something like 3 points a game against the Knicks and was Orlando's 12th man the previous year. Kukoc played only 18 minutes a game and put up 9/4/3 in the playoffs. Is the argument that adding these players equals Mr. "70%"? That is strange...[/QUOTE]


it was because they had that swagger with MJ leading them, and knew the triangle. they were a GREAT team. but you put ANY of them on any other team as individuals and their stock would plummet.

talking more the kerr's, paxson's, longley's, wenningtons, etc. even horace is pretty overrated since he was just an above average role player. not star at all. only in hindsight and D whores as usual love to reinvent the past. they'll probably do it with Artest 10 years from now too putting him on the 50 greatest of alltime. bet.

I would have loved to see this forum after Jordan got SWEPT by the Celtics, TWICE.


"Michael Jordan is a mental midget, he'll never be a champion!!!"

:roll:

[QUOTE=bdreason]I would have loved to see this forum after Jordan got SWEPT by the Celtics, TWICE.


"Michael Jordan is a mental midget, he'll never be a champion!!!"

:roll:[/QUOTE]

Did anyone criticize Durant for losing to the Lakers, who weren't as good as those multiple champion Celtics? Yeah, but that's because he had a bad series, but the criticism was few and far between, and because it was only his 3rd year.

Now think about Jordan's 86 and 87 Bulls, who had nobody as good as Westbrook as a 2nd star (Druggy Woolridge was probably the closest they had to a 2nd star) getting swept by the Celtics, BUT he averaged about 40 ppg against one of the best teams in NBA history, including breaking the NBA record for playoff points. That's a 2nd and 3rd year Jordan, mind you.

The only thing you'll be reading is how he'd be the future GOAT (And oh, he was a huge underdog against those Piston teams, but still managed to take them 6 and 7 games, with freaking Sam Vincent as their second best scorer) - the same team that SWEPT the Lakers in the Finals)

MJ always won when he was expected to. Always.

[QUOTE=RazorBaLade]kobe never had the team Mj had. MJ had everything u could want thats why hes the greatest... Kobes been the closest and Lebron is not even close yet imo[/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE=bdreason]I would have loved to see this forum after Jordan got SWEPT by the Celtics, TWICE.


"Michael Jordan is a mental midget, he'll never be a champion!!!"

:roll:[/QUOTE]

Big difference. Celts were one of, if not the best team in the league at the time and were highly favored over Jordan's Bulls, who were not exactly "stacked" at the time.

Jordan NEVER lost as a favorite in the playoffs.

[QUOTE=RazorBaLade]kobe never had the team Mj had. MJ had everything u could want thats why hes the greatest... Kobes been the closest and Lebron is not even close yet imo[/QUOTE]
must be a kobe fan.