Penny Hardaway talks handchecking & Kobe Bryant vs Michael Jordan

These guys get behind this whole hand-checking band wagon and how tough it made it, but these are guys that enjoyed season of 50%fg....i still don't see how hand-checking correlates to tougher defense and higher FG%s at the same time.

Me personally i've always prefered being defended by someone pplaying defense with their hands instead of their feet, use their own leverage against them.

[QUOTE=tpols]But the handchecking era didn't end when kobe was playing. Kobe played in an era that allowed for zone defense(and therefore harder doubles~more effective team defense to contain any given player) AND they could still impede a player's progress to the rim with handchecking. This era was from the late 90s to 04.. the era kobe made his name in and was a key cog for three championship teams. Kobe has already proven he could dominate even with handcheking in place.. check his 30/7/6 '01 playoff statline.[/QUOTE]

First this is a complete lie.....second this great zone defense wasn't capable of keeping Tony Parker and many other perimeter players from leading/among leaders in in-the-paint scoring.

1999-00
• In the backcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders. [COLOR="Red"]In the frontcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders except below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may only use his forearm. In the post, neither the offensive player nor the defender is allowed to dislodge or displace a player who has legally obtained a position[/COLOR]. [COLOR="Red"]Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player. Slowing or impeding the progress of the screener by grabbing, clutching, holding “chucking” or “wrapping up” is prohibited.[/COLOR]


2000-01

• If a player is fouled when he has a clear-path-to-the-basket, he gets one free throw and his team gets possession of the ball at midcourt.
Previously, the player received two free throws.
• [COLOR="Red"]No contact with either hands or forearms by defenders except in the frontcourt below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may use his forearm only.
• Neither the offensive player nor the defender will be allowed to dislodge or displace a player who has legally obtained a position.
• Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to Point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player.
• Slowing or impeding the progress of the screener by grabbing, clutching, holding “chucking” or “wrapping up” is prohibited.[/COLOR]
• A five-second count will begin if an offensive player with the ball and not facing-up starts dribbling below the free throw line extended while being closely guarded or starts dribbling outside and then penetrates below the free throw line extended while being closely guarded. (The five-second count commences when the offensive player penetrates the free throw line extended). After five seconds, a violation will have occurred and the offensive team will lose possession.


2001-02
• Illegal defense guidelines will be eliminated in their entirety.
• [COLOR="Red"]A new defensive three-second rule will prohibit a defensive player from remaining in the lane for more than three consecutive seconds without closely guarding an offensive player.[/COLOR]
• The time that a team has to advance the ball past midcourt will be reduced from ten seconds to eight.
•[COLOR="Red"] Brief contact initiated by a defensive player will be allowed if it does not impede the progress of the player with the ball[/COLOR].

2004-05
• [COLOR="Red"]New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds to open up the game.
[/COLOR]

This is where Kobe made his living, in a league that kept making it easier for the offensive guy........Pistons forced the 2004 rule changes, after Mark Cuban bitched to the league about the way they defended Kobe "ie old school handchecking, chucking off screens, etc."

During the series, Mav's owner Mark Cuban made some interesting observations about the defensive play of the Pistons (handchecking as Jordan era players new it was dead, but minimal/temporary contact was still sometimes allowed) and the 'advantage' they had over offensive perimeter players and decided a change was necesary to tip the scales in the other direction...

From his Blog Maverick weblog, Mark Cuban's article 'If It’s Not Broke, Doesn’t Mean It’s Optimal. Even in the NBA';Feb 4th 2009:

"So a few years ago, Im watching the Pistons beat the Lakers in the Finals. [B]I’m seeing Larry Brown’s Pistons fully take advantage of the rules. It was impossible to stay in front of Kobe. He could get anywhere he wanted on the court. The Pistons knew it as well. So every time he tried to get to the basket, they would body up and bump him. The officials did just as they were supposed to. Since Kobe had the advantage on the defender, they didn’t call a foul. However that little bump slowed Kobe down just enough that it gave Ben Wallace a split second more to on a pre rotation to the Paint, to be in a better position to defend the basket. Kobe still scored, but not quite as often as he may have otherwise.[/B]

At that point it dawned on me that the concept of playing the advantage in a one on one matchup had nothing to do with which TEAM gained the advantage. After all, its the team that scores the most points that wins. Detroit had a brilliant strategy and was playing it to perfection. After the finals, I sat down with the league and discussed with them the difference between player and team advantage. The discussion lead to changing the rules so that perimeter contact was called far more often."

Cuban got his wish and the already stringent anti-contact rules for perimeter play became even more strict. The unintended backlash ended up blowing up in his face:

[B]"The NBA eliminated all forms of hand-checking before the 2004-2005 season. The rule was intended to give offensive players more freedom, but has given offensive players an unfair advantage. [SIZE="5"]It’s virtually impossible to keep perimeter players out of the paint.[/SIZE][/B]

Unfortunately for Cuban and the Mavs, the rule changes he helped initiate contributed to Dallas’ loss to the Miami Heat in the 2006 NBA Finals. Dwyane Wade shot an NBA Finals record 97 free throws. To his credit, Wade attacked the basket relentlessly, but there were times when Maverick defenders beat Wade to a spot on the floor, had their arms to their sides, and were whistled for blocking fouls when Wade initiated contact. It was ridiculous. The Mavericks attempted 48 free throws in Game’s 5 and 6. Wade attempted 46 freebies over the same span

Cuban has done a lot for the NBA. But the hand-checking rule was better left unchanged."

-BallerBlogger.com, article: 'Cuban Helped Eliminate Handchecking'

Don't get me wrong, Kobe would still score, he is fundamentally sound, if he had to play through this his whole career, I'm sure he would adjust, although his numbers would dip some

[QUOTE=tpols]Thats why kobe dropped 33 ppg 43% in 2003 on bowen and 27 ppg 47% in 2004 on bowen all while in the handchecking era(rule wasn't abolished til 05).:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Kobe played against Bowen from age 30-37 :roll:

[QUOTE=Big#50]Bowen played d with his arms on his side. What that guy did in this era is ****ing amazing. Prime Bowen would have caused madness in the past. Imagine Bowen guarding Kobe with the rules of old. No way Kobe shoots over 35% against him.[/QUOTE]


Sorry man, but I think your Spurs blinders are on. He was a terrific defender, definitely give him credit where due. But to suggest that he played defense without a hand-check is false.

I've watched almost every Laker-Spurs battle that pitted Kobe vs. Bowen and Bruce used every trick in the book on Bryant (e.g., hand-check, stand under his legs on jumpshots, etc.,). I'm not gonna flood this thread w/a million bryant/bowen highlights but enjoy:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvh9kEwekY8&feature=related[/url]

[QUOTE=Christofire]These guys get behind this whole hand-checking band wagon and how tough it made it, but these are guys that enjoyed season of 50%fg....i still don't see how hand-checking correlates to tougher defense and higher FG%s at the same time.[/QUOTE]

Because players in that era had better fundamentals, which is one of the main flaws in the "FG% is down now so that means defense is better" arguments.

And if you don't know how hand-checking makes a difference, you've obviously never played basketball before. 2K11 doesn't count.