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[QUOTE=game3524]No what is silly is people who think past his prime Jordan 96-98 was better then peak Kobe Bryant 2008.[/QUOTE]
Much better player than Kobe in 2008.
Anyone that can't see that is obviously bias.
Not worth arguing, anyone that isnt bias knows this already.
[QUOTE=game3524]Yeah, and Phil would agree with you.[/QUOTE]
even Jordan himself said Kobe is a more advanced player skilwise....:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=game3524]What is this bullshit?:roll:
08-10 Kobe has averaged less shots a game then 96-98 Jordan. Also LA lost because they can't guard a chair on the perimeter and didn't close out on the shooters, Kobe Bryant's shot selection was the least of their problems this year.[/QUOTE]
how can perimeter defense be a problem when kobe is first team all-d!
[QUOTE=miles berg]Much better player than Kobe in 2008.
Anyone that can't see that is obviously bias.
Not worth arguing, anyone that isnt bias knows this already.[/QUOTE]
"much better"....and your talking about Bias????
both comparable ...similar players in similar roles ..
IMO Kobe is a better allaround player....
lol @ Bias
[QUOTE=miles berg]Much better player than Kobe in 2008.
Anyone that can't see that is obviously bias.
Not worth arguing, anyone that isnt bias knows this already.[/QUOTE]
No, he wasn't.
2008 Kobe was a better defender then 96-98 Jordan, and their offensive games were pretty much a wash. And what really tilts things in Bryant's corner was his athleticism at that point was better then mid-late 90's Jordan.
I love MJ, and think he is the best player of all-time. But this stupid revisionism of his latter stages of his career is hilarious.
[QUOTE=DuMa]how can perimeter defense be a problem when kobe is first team all-d![/QUOTE]
Kobe sucked on defense this year, and Fisher was more of the weak link anyway.
[QUOTE=game3524]No, I understand basketball. You guys just want to turn Jordan into some mythical figure. Both Bryant and Jordan have high b-ball IQ, the difference is Jordan was a much better athlete then Bryant, which allowed him to get higher percentage shots.[/QUOTE]
And the fact that MJ didn't settle or force as many shots has anything to do with it?
MJ has credited Dean Smith into transforming him into the player he became endlessly, this is where he learned to play smart and make the proper decisions. Kenny Smith alluded to this as well.
How many great athletes have we seen in the league with great potential come and go, but their iq kills their chances of being great (or good at all in some cases).
Kobe has a good IQ, but compared to most of the greats and to MJ it falls very short.
[QUOTE=andgar923][B]And the fact that MJ didn't settle or force as many shots has anything to do with it?[/B]
MJ has credited Dean Smith into transforming him into the player he became endlessly, this is where he learned to play smart and make the proper decisions. Kenny Smith alluded to this as well.
How many great athletes have we seen in the league with great potential come and go, but their iq kills their chances of being great (or good at all in some cases).
Kobe has a good IQ, but compared to most of the greats and to MJ it falls very short.[/QUOTE]
Bryant has the range to hit those tough shots. MJ as great as he was, never had Kobe's range. Also prime MJ was a better athlete then Bryant ever was, which allowed him to get to his spots and take much higher percentage shots.
[QUOTE=gengiskhan][B][COLOR="Red"]Peak Kobe has won 2 scoring titles[/COLOR][/B]
96-98 MJ has won 3 scoring titles . [B]Advantage MJ[/B]
Peak Kobe has won 1 NBA MVP.
96-98 MJ has won 2 NBA MVPs. [B]Advantage MJ[/B]
Peak Kobe has won 2 Finals MVPs
96-98 MJ has won 3 Finals MVPs. [B]Advantage MJ[/B]
Peak Kobe has LOST 1 NBA Finals series despite being favorites.
96-98 MJ has NOT lost any NBA Finals series despite being underdog (1998). [B]Advantage MJ[/B]
Peak Kobe has failed to sweep MVP in a year.
96-98 MJ has won NBA MVP + Finals MVP TWICE. [B]Advantage MJ[/B]
are you faking Blind. You still cannot seperate who is better. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Kobe won scoring titles in 06&07. Not 08-10.
[QUOTE=game3524]Bryant has the range to hit those tough shots. MJ as great as he was, never had Kobe's range. Also prime MJ was a better athlete then Bryant ever was, which allowed him to get to his spots and take much higher percentage shots.[/QUOTE]
Even then.
Although I agree that MJ's athleticism gave him an advantage, how would you describe the following.
As Kobe's athleticism eroded, he has taken less 3pt shots and has picked his spots on the court to become an even deadlier offensive player. His post up game and mid range shots have also increased as he's taken less 3pt shots.
On the flip side, even as a Wizard MJ was getting clear looks and penetrating even tho his athleticism was clearly gone. He could no longer just blow or jump over you, he used his footwork and off the ball movement more than ever.
That's just a few examples to illustrate my point.
Again... I NEVER stated that what made MJ was primarily his IQ. I just used it as an example to show that it is what separated MJ from Kobe the most.
[QUOTE=andgar923]Even then.
Although I agree that MJ's athleticism gave him an advantage, how would you describe the following.
As Kobe's athleticism eroded, he has taken less 3pt shots and has picked his spots on the court to become an even deadlier offensive player. His post up game and mid range shots have also increased as he's taken less 3pt shots.
On the flip side, even as a Wizard MJ was getting clear looks and penetrating even tho his athleticism was clearly gone. He could no longer just blow or jump over you, he used his footwork and off the ball movement more than ever.
That's just a few examples to illustrate my point.
Again... I NEVER stated that what made MJ was primarily his IQ. I just used it as an example to show that it is what separated MJ from Kobe the most.[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't see the point you are trying to illustrate. So what, both guys changed their game to offset their aging.
[QUOTE=game3524]No what is silly is people who think past his prime Jordan 96-98 was better then peak Kobe Bryant 2008.[/QUOTE]
Have you lost your mind?
If you did please file a police complaint!
I just gave you from stats, individual accolades, efficiency how 1995-1998 MJ is simply Better than Peak Kobe Bryant.
You just seem to simply ignore it & deny it.
than I even went explaining why Kobe lost '08 NBA finals. you ignore that as well.
funny thing with Kobe stans:
Just ignore MJ stats
Just ignore MJs individual accolades
Just ignore MJs leadership, efficiency
Just ignore MJs ultimate mastery of mid range game, ouside & inside game, triagle offense.
Just shouting off the roof "Kobe is the best Kobe is the best Kobe is the best!" aint gonna make him better than MJ.
Kobe offensively or defensively Is, was, will be NEVER at same level as 1984-1998 MJ.
Every fact has gone against him so far.
i bet Dmavs is mad i made a better thread :banana:
[QUOTE=Warriors fan]i bet Dmavs is mad i made a better thread :banana:[/QUOTE]
You are DMAVS. You're not fooling anybody.
[QUOTE=andgar923]I have defended and praised Kobe for his willingness to dare aspire at being better than MJ. I have defended and praised Kobe time and time again when comparing Bron and others to him. I have given him the highest compliment any player can get when I state that he's the closest to MJ as far as 'skills set'.
But that's all Kobe is= Jordan 'lite'
He has some of MJ's skills, but not as polished and at the same level of 'consistency'. If MJ is a 9.5 in a certain skill, Kobe is an 8 (depending on what we're talking about).
But where Kobe lacks the most (and this is significant) is in the IQ department.
Lawdy is he far behind in this department.
MJ is clearly a 10, Kobe is a 5.
And this takes away from all of the other aspects in his game. MJ wasn't perfect, but he knew how to maximize his strengths while not letting his opponents exploit his weaknesses. Kobe on the other hand is the opposite. There's a huge reason why his stats aren't as impressive as MJ's (although impressive on their own right), and that's because he has never come close to MJ's overall mastery of the game.
There's an interview with MJ where he states that physically, Wade, Bron and Kobe would beat him. But when it comes to the mental aspects, it's not even close.... and he's right.
Some cats here are too young or too dumb (sorry, but it's true) to understand this very important aspect. And that's what I believe takes Kobe notches down from even being equal to MJ, let alone better.[/QUOTE]
Is that why Phil said that Kobe has better basketball skills than Jordan? Ouch... :roll: