[QUOTE=Big#50]You're kind of creepy. Are you Asian?[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Big#50]You're kind of creepy. Are you Asian?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lews787vLI1qbidv9.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]
2003
[B]1.Kobe
2.Duncan[/B]3.TMAC
[/QUOTE]
I really don't know how someone could win both the MVP and Finals MVP and not be the best player for that season.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]I really don't know how someone could win both the MVP and Finals MVP and not be the best player for that season.[/QUOTE]
He is a troll. Ignore him.
[QUOTE=Big#50]He is a troll. Ignore him.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: Wow now that is ironic
[QUOTE=magnax1]00
1-Shaq
2-KG
3-Duncan
01-
1-Shaq
2-Duncan
3-KG
02-
1-Duncan
2-Shaq
3-KG
03-
1-KG
2-Duncan
3-Shaq
04-
1-KG
2-Duncan
3-Hard to say. There really weren't a lot of fantastic players that year. I think if you ignore Kobe's really poor first half, it's him, but if not probably Jermaine O'Neal.
05
1-Duncan
2-KG
3-Another tough year. Kobe Shaq and TMac are all pretty close.
06
1-Kobe
2-Wade
3-Duncan
07
1-Kobe
2-Duncan
3-Lebron
08
1-Kobe
2-Lebron
3-Duncan
09
1-Wade
2-Kobe and Lebron were awfully close
10
1-Lebron
2-Wade
3-Kobe
11
1-Wade
2-Lebron
3-Dwight[/QUOTE]
This doesn't really add up.
Why KG in front of Duncan in 2000, but behind him in 2001? Nothing really changed in their games/performances those 2 seasons.
You have Duncan as the best player in 2002, but not in 2003 when he was at his peak? Doesn't really add up when you have KG over 2003 Duncan who was better than 2002 Duncan. Yet you have 2002 Duncan ahead of 2002 Shaq who was clearly better than 2003 KG?
2004 is really puzzling as well, I agree with your top 2, but Kobe and especially Jermaine O'Neal ahead of Shaq? If you're going to rank Kobe ahead of Shaq in any season that they played together, a MUCH better argument can be made for 2003.
Kobe in the top 3 discussion for 2005?
Duncan above Chris Paul in 2008?
And finally, are you including the playoffs? If so, I can't see the consistency, the only way Wade could be ranked above Lebron in 2011 is if you are including the playoffs, and the only way Wade could be ranked above Lebron in 2009 is if you're not including the playoffs(and even that's a stretch).
00
1. Shaq
2. Zo
3. Malone
01
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. KG
02
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. KG
03
1. Duncan
2. KG
3. Shaq
04
1. KG
2. Duncan
3. Shaq
05
1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. KG
06
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Lebron
07
1. Kobe
2. Duncan
3. Lebron
08
1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. CP3
09
1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
10
1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
11
1. Dirk
2. Wade
3. Dwight
[QUOTE]This doesn't really add up.
Why KG in front of Duncan in 2000, but behind him in 2001? Nothing really changed in their games/performances those 2 seasons.[/QUOTE]
KG playing a tiny bit better in 00 then 01, and Duncan's injury in 00 puts him behind. They're close enough that you have to take into account the really small stuff.
[QUOTE]You have Duncan as the best player in 2002, but not in 2003 when he was at his peak? Doesn't really add up when you have KG over 2003 Duncan who was better than 2002 Duncan. Yet you have 2002 Duncan ahead of 2002 Shaq who was clearly better than 2003 KG?[/QUOTE]
Duncan in 03 just wasn't as good as Duncan in 02. 02 was the year his jumper was best, he was shooting FTs better then any year, and it shows up in the numbers. 02 is the only year that really sticks out in Duncans prime from 00-05 a lot better then the rest. He really wasn't as good in 03 as 02, and there really isn't any argument for it unless you just want to say his team went farther.
[QUOTE]2004 is really puzzling as well, I agree with your top 2, but Kobe and especially Jermaine O'Neal ahead of Shaq? If you're going to rank Kobe ahead of Shaq in any season that they played together, a MUCH better argument can be made for 2003.[/QUOTE]
Shaq was quite pathetic in 04. Had a much better season in 05. He didn't play D, and being out of shape really caught up to him and affected his play badly. Next year he came back in shape and picked up his level of play quite a lot.
JO and Shaq are sort of close. JO was a lot better defender though and made a bigger impact on those Indiana teams considering he was the focal point of both the defense and the offense.
As for Kobe, like I said it just depends on how you look at it, but at his best that season he was far and away the best player on that team.
[QUOTE]Kobe in the top 3 discussion for 2005?[/QUOTE]
Why not? He definitely wasn't as great as other years, but even then he was pretty close to TMac and Shaq, neither of whom were that close to their best either.
[QUOTE]Duncan above Chris Paul in 2008?[/QUOTE]
I don't see a case for Duncan not being higher then Chris Paul.
[QUOTE]And finally, are you including the playoffs? If so, I can't see the consistency, the only way Wade could be ranked above Lebron in 2011 is if you are including the playoffs, and the only way Wade could be ranked above Lebron in 2009 is if you're not including the playoffs(and even that's a stretch).[/QUOTE]
I'm just taking into account overall level of play, playoffs included in the sense that a lot of players don't play at their regular season level in the playoffs and some players do the opposite, so you have to take that into account. I try not to reward players for going off against weak teams unless they consistently play at another level in the playoffs throughout their career.
And Lebron Wade this year is pretty obvious to me. They basically played equal in the regular seaon, but Wade definitely came through on another level in every round of the playoffs but Chicago.
09 is pretty obvious too. Wade was just better to me. Better scorer, and Defender, pretty equal in other departments except Lebron brought down more rebounds (though I think his rebounding stats are inflated, I'll still give it to him) Lebron did have a great playoffs, but against teams that weren't exactly great, and against a team that was notorious for letting perimeter starrs go off against them.
[QUOTE=magnax1]KG playing a tiny bit better in 00 then 01, and Duncan's injury in 00 puts him behind. They're close enough that you have to take into account the really small stuff.
Duncan in 03 just wasn't as good as Duncan in 02. 02 was the year his jumper was best, he was shooting FTs better then any year, and it shows up in the numbers. 02 is the only year that really sticks out in Duncans prime from 00-05 a lot better then the rest. He really wasn't as good in 03 as 02, and there really isn't any argument for it unless you just want to say his team went farther.
Shaq was quite pathetic in 04. Had a much better season in 05. He didn't play D, and being out of shape really caught up to him and affected his play badly. Next year he came back in shape and picked up his level of play quite a lot.
JO and Shaq are sort of close. JO was a lot better defender though and made a bigger impact on those Indiana teams considering he was the focal point of both the defense and the offense.
As for Kobe, like I said it just depends on how you look at it, but at his best that season he was far and away the best player on that team.
[B]Why not? He definitely wasn't as great as other years, but even then he was pretty close to TMac and Shaq, neither of whom were that close to their best either.
[/B]
I don't see a case for Duncan not being higher then Chris Paul.
I'm just taking into account overall level of play, playoffs included in the sense that a lot of players don't play at their regular season level in the playoffs and some players do the opposite, so you have to take that into account. I try not to reward players for going off against weak teams unless they consistently play at another level in the playoffs throughout their career.
And Lebron Wade this year is pretty obvious to me. They basically played equal in the regular seaon, but Wade definitely came through on another level in every round of the playoffs but Chicago.
09 is pretty obvious too. Wade was just better to me. Better scorer, and Defender, pretty equal in other departments except Lebron brought down more rebounds (though I think his rebounding stats are inflated, I'll still give it to him) Lebron did have a great playoffs, but against teams that weren't exactly great, and against a team that was notorious for letting perimeter starrs go off against them.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
Really? Wade was a better player than Kobe in 05. Along with many other players. Kobe missed the playoffs along with 16 regular season games. And he shot 43% from the field.
Top 3? Might not have even been top 10.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]:facepalm
Really? Wade was a better player than Kobe in 05. Along with many other players. Kobe missed the playoffs along with 16 regular season games. And he shot 43% from the field.
Top 3? Might not have even been top 10.[/QUOTE]
You aren't serious are you? Wade had 24-5-7 on 56 TS% Kobe had 28-6-6 on 56 TS%, and that's with Kobe being injured and having much more defensive pressure on him.
Kobe.
[QUOTE=magnax1]You aren't serious are you? Wade had 24-5-7 on 56 TS% Kobe had 28-6-6 on 56 TS%, and that's with Kobe being injured and having much more defensive pressure on him.[/QUOTE]
Do the playoffs count for anything?
Does defense count for anything?
And only TS? LOL...how about also listing that Wade shot nearly 5% better from the field.
Oh, and the playoffs:
Wade - 27/6/7 on 48% fg 56% TS
So Wade puts up better stats than Kobe in the playoffs (playing the same team that destroyed Kobe the year before as well) and makes the ECF and you rank Kobe over Wade???????????????????????
Sorry, doesn't work.
Kobe top 3 is a ****ing joke.
Nash, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, KG and Wade all were better.....and so were other players.
LOL
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Do the playoffs count for anything?
Does defense count for anything?
And only TS? LOL...how about also listing that Wade shot nearly 5% better from the field.
Oh, and the playoffs:
Wade - 27/6/7 on 48% fg 56% TS
So Wade puts up better stats than Kobe in the playoffs (playing the same team that destroyed Kobe the year before as well) and makes the ECF and you rank Kobe over Wade???????????????????????
Sorry, doesn't work.
Kobe top 3 is a ****ing joke.
Nash, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, and Wade all were better.....and so were other players.
LOL[/QUOTE]
What I will give Wade is that he picked up his level of play in the playoffs, as he always does, but even then there isn't much of a case for him, and just saying he made the playoffs doesn't change that (Kobe might have too if not for he and Odom's injury) Making the playoffs doesn't make you a better player.
If I was going to rank wade, it'd be probably right behind Duncan KG TMac Shaq and Kobe with Nash.
[QUOTE=magnax1]What I will give Wade is that he picked up his level of play in the playoffs, as he always does, but even then there isn't much of a case for him, and just saying he made the playoffs doesn't change that (Kobe might have too if not for he and Odom's injury) Making the playoffs doesn't make you a better player.
If I was going to rank wade, it'd be probably right behind Duncan KG TMac Shaq and Kobe with Nash.[/QUOTE]
Its not making the playoffs, its how he played when it matters most. And the Lakers might have made the playoffs if Kobe had played better when he did play.
The stats look a lot better (especially when you only look at TS...LOL) than how Kobe actually played. Anyone watching 2005 knows Kobe was not a top 3 player.
Reg. Season + Post Season
1999-2000
1. Shaq
2. Malone
3. Iverson
2000-2001
1. Iverson
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
2001-2002
1. Shaq
2. Iverson
3. Kidd
2002-2003
1. McGrady
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
2003-2004
1. KG
2. Duncan
3. Wallace
2004-2005
1. Duncan
2. Nash
3. Wade
2005-2006
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. LeBron
2006-2007
1. Nash
2. Kobe
3. Ginobili
2007-2008
1. Kobe
2. CP3
3. KG
2008-2009
1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Wade
2009-2010
1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Wade
2010-2011
1. Rose
2. Wade
3. LeBron
Anyone not mentioning Iverson in the top three 2000, 2001, and 2002 is a clear as day HATER.
Anyone mentioning Shaq in the top three in 2005 needs to get smacked.
Anyone not mentioning Kidd in top three in 2002 needs to be punched in the mouth.
Anyone not mentioning Rose in 2011 needs to get tea bagged for their stupidity.
[QUOTE=magnax1]
Duncan in 03 just wasn't as good as Duncan in 02. 02 was the year his jumper was best, he was shooting FTs better then any year, and it shows up in the numbers. 02 is the only year that really sticks out in Duncans prime from 00-05 a lot better then the rest. He really wasn't as good in 03 as 02, and there really isn't any argument for it unless you just want to say his team went farther.[/QUOTE]
No, Duncan was clearly better in 2003. His defense was at it's absolute peak, his passing and rebounding were as good, if not better and he was MUCH better in the 2003 playoffs than 2002 playoffs.
[QUOTE]Shaq was quite pathetic in 04. Had a much better season in 05. He didn't play D, and being out of shape really caught up to him and affected his play badly. Next year he came back in shape and picked up his level of play quite a lot. [/QUOTE]
Shaq played much better defense in 2004 than 2003, yet you ranked him top 3 in 2003. He was also in worse shape in 2003(arguably the worst shape of his prime). He wore down late in the regular season in 2005 and couldn't contribute anywhere near the way he did in the 2004 playoffs.
[QUOTE]JO and Shaq are sort of close. JO was a lot better defender though and made a bigger impact on those Indiana teams considering he was the focal point of both the defense and the offense.
As for Kobe, like I said it just depends on how you look at it, but at his best that season he was far and away the best player on that team[/QUOTE].
No, Jermaine was clearly not as good as Shaq. The gap between them offensively was massive. And Shaq was also the focal point offensively and defensively in 2004 for the Lakers.
[QUOTE]Why not? He definitely wasn't as great as other years, but even then he was pretty close to TMac and Shaq, neither of whom were that close to their best either.[/QUOTE]
Kobe played that season injured and the Lakers finished at 34-48 and out of the playoffs. Just 28-38 with Kobe and he had arguably the worst defensive season of his prime.
[QUOTE]And Lebron Wade this year is pretty obvious to me. They basically played equal in the regular seaon, but Wade definitely came through on another level in every round of the playoffs but Chicago. [/QUOTE]
Lebron was clearly better in the regular season, Philadelphia Series and Chicago series. Wade was clearly better in the Boston series and Finals.
[QUOTE]09 is pretty obvious too. Wade was just better to me. Better scorer, and Defender, pretty equal in other departments except Lebron brought down more rebounds (though I think his rebounding stats are inflated, I'll still give it to him) Lebron did have a great playoffs, but against teams that weren't exactly great, and against a team that was notorious for letting perimeter starrs go off against them.[/QUOTE]
Lebron did everything as well as Wade in 2009 except mid-rang shooting and did certain things better(passing/playmaking).
That same weak team(Atlanta) that Lebron toyed with in the playoffs, Wade failed to dominate.
And regardless of competition, 35/9/7/51 FG%/61 TS% is ****ing ridiculous for a playoff run of 3 rounds, I'm not sure there was anyone else in the league capable of that.
And how about elevating your team? Wade didn't have as good of a cast and did a good job carrying them. But Lebron making his team the best team of the regular season and pretty historically great during the regular season(could have tied the '86 Celtics 40-1 home record had they not rested their starters on the last game) is far more notable.