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[QUOTE=Carbine]What you wrote makes no sense to anyone here.[/QUOTE]
Only you. You really think Dirk is on the level of Kobe, Jordan, AI??? Shaq, Durant, Wade, Barkley??? Did Dirk ever crack top three scoring wise? This is puzzling to you? Please provide a counter argument.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Wow, this is from a guy that has Rodman as a screen-name and avatar. Do you really know what defense is?[/QUOTE]
:lol not arguable.. certainly better. My english is killing me sometimes.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Only you. You really think Dirk is on the level of Kobe, Jordan, AI??? Shaq, Durant, Wade, Barkley??? Did Dirk ever crack top three scoring wise? This is puzzling to you? Please provide a counter argument.[/QUOTE]
Kobe, Jordan, and Shaq no. On par with Wade and Durant. Certainly better than AI.
Dirk has never been a shoot 30 times a game player so you can't expect him to be at the ppg levels they are.
LOL @ people acting Like KG was some offensive liability to prop Dirk up. :facepalm
KG's PPG from 1999-2000 to 2006-07
22.9 (playoffs 18.8)
22.0 (playoffs 21.0)
21.2 (playoffs 24.0)
23.0 (playoffs 27.0)
24.2 (playoffs 24.3)
22.2
21.8
22.4
Dirk PPG during the same period
17.5 (it was his 2nd year, I admit)
21.8 (playoffs 23.4)
23.4 (playoffs 28.4)
25.1 (playoffs 25.3)
21.8 (playoffs 26.6)
26.1 (playoffs 23.7)
26.6 (playoffs 27.0)
24.6 (playoffs 19.7)
Yeah, Dirk is a better scorer and always has been but stop acting like KG was ****ing Ben Wallace out there.
[QUOTE=ACCBaller1403]Kobe, Jordan, and Shaq no. On par with Wade and Durant. Certainly better than AI.
Dirk has never been a shoot 30 times a game player so you can't expect him to be at the ppg levels they are.[/QUOTE]
Dwyane Wade career: 25.4 PPG on 48.5 shooting
Dirk: 23.0 PPG on 47.6 shooting
:facepalm
Yeah, I'm OK with that statement.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Only you. You really think Dirk is on the level of Kobe, Jordan, AI??? Shaq, Durant, Wade, Barkley??? Did Dirk ever crack top three scoring wise? This is puzzling to you? Please provide a counter argument.[/QUOTE]
LOL....so now volume gets completely ignored.
Here are some facts for you...playoffs:
kobe 25.4 ppg on 44.8/33.5/81.5.....54.2% TS
dirk 25.9 ppg on 46.5/38.4/89.2.....58.4% TS
But yea, Dirk isn't an elite scorer. He just trumps Kobe in every scoring statistic there is. And Kobe is absolutely an elite scorer.
Do you realize that Dirk is 15th all time in playoff points scored?
Do you realize that Dirk is 8th all time in playoff points per game?
Do you realize that Dirk is 28th all time in playoff true shooting percentage? Which by my count is the highest TS% in NBA playoff history for any player averaging over 25ppg in their playoff careers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by my count, Dirk is the most efficient scorer in playoff history over 25ppg.
LOL...and he's not elite...
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]LOL....so now volume gets completely ignored.
Here are some facts for you...playoffs:
kobe 25.4 ppg on 44.8/33.5/81.5.....54.2% TS
dirk 25.9 ppg on 46.5/38.4/89.2.....58.4% TS
But yea, Dirk isn't an elite scorer. He just trumps Kobe in every scoring statistic there is. And Kobe is absolutely an elite scorer.
Do you realize that Dirk is 15th all time in playoff points scored?
Do you realize that Dirk is 8th all time in playoff points per game?
Do you realize that Dirk is 28th all time in playoff true shooting percentage? Which by my count is the highest TS% in NBA playoff history for any player averaging over 25ppg in their playoff careers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by my count, Dirk is the most efficient scorer in playoff history over 25ppg.
LOL...and he's not elite...[/QUOTE]
TS is obviously going to favor Dirk over a lot of players because of FT% :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=RRR3]TS is obviously going to favor Dirk over a lot of players because of FT% :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
That is why I listed fg% and 3p% as well....i listed everything.
There isn't one area in playoff scoring that Kobe beats Dirk in. Not ppg, not fg%, not 3p%, not ft%......not one.
Would anyone claim Kobe as not an elite scorer? Of course not.
And again, 8th all time in playoff ppg and no matter how you break it down...one of the most efficient high volume scorers in the history of the nba playoffs.
oh, and he's one of the most clutch players of his era and all time in terms of scoring....and he's a rock solid 5 of 12 on playoff game winners.
kobe? 7 of 25 on playoff game winners.
no matter how you break it down, dirk is absolutely right there with Kobe as a scorer in the playoffs.
Dirk is an elite scorer. Don't be stats nerds..even though his stats says same.
7 footer with one of the greatest shooting touch.He has one of the most impossible move to guard.He is one of the best go to guy. And clutch.
You don't even need his records to see it.But still by stats, how many guys have 48% FG, 38% 3pts and 88% FT while scoring 23 ppg in 13 years?
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Only you. You really think Dirk is on the level of Kobe, Jordan, AI??? Shaq, Durant, Wade, Barkley??? Did Dirk ever crack top three scoring wise? This is puzzling to you? Please provide a counter argument.[/QUOTE]
Iverson isn't even as good of a scorer as Dirk and you have him up there with Jordan and Kobe.
Then you wonder why people are laughing at you.
Iverson in single coverage is a pretty deadly scorer but the fact is he's undersized, a terrible finisher around the rim besides the occasional acrobatic, reverse lay up he'll hit and has poor shot selection.
There is no team that willl benefit more from Iverson than Dirk. Iverson puts more pressure on the defense with his dribble penetration which creates for his teammates directly and indirectly but Dirk's shooting ability from all regions on the court, his ability to space so far out so the defense has to stick with him at all times is equally effective.
I don't know whats your criteria but there are two things that can put Iverson above Dirk. One is ppg which is obviously a flawed stat.
The second is explosive scoring which is something Iverson has a clear edge in. But once you get to a certain point for me, at least 25+ ppg, I'll take the consistent scorer over the more explosive because I'm not exactly a fan of those 20 pt on 7/23 nights.
I wouldn't put Dominique up there either despite his gaudy volume numbers. The guy was a selfish player (Kevin Wills called him out for being a hog) and has a weak playoff career besides the duel with Bird. I'm not talking about his team success but individually, he never did much in the playoffs and always declined compared to the season.
Nique is more aggressive, attacks really hard from the mid-low post region but the classic example of style over substance. I like his skillset though. Crafty on the block with the turnaround jumper, dropstep and I like how effectively he used the glass on those one handed shots coming top speed on penetration. Solid shooter uptill midrange but nowhere near Dirk like.
I'll give you Kobe, Jordan, Barkley, Wade, Shaq. Iverson, Nique and Durant are meh.
I hate to get off topic, but those who say Nique was more style than substance I gotta disagree with. I don't think Nique gets credit for the way he evolved throughout his career with his all around game and shot selection. And on top of it, Fratello admitted he told Nique to jack. Cause that was their best chance to win. Look at Nique's supporting casts compared to the other legends of his era. He got the Hawks several 50 win seasons as it was anyway. Kevin Willis was a borderline All Star type at best who has NO right to knock Nique. If anything, he needs to knock the coaches if anything who told Nique to jack.
Now in comparing Dirk to Nique, I wouldnt complain at all if someone chose Dirk over Nique. However, Nique has just as much takeover ability scoring as Dirk. Rebounding wise, I feel Nique rebounded his position better than Dirk. And Nique is a better one on one defender than Dirk. Passing wise I would say they are even. But Dirk is such a matchup nightmare that it can supercede that advantages Nique brought to the table. And I'm a huge Nique fan. And I can see how one would take Dirk over Nique. But Nique WASN'T more style than substance. Guys who are more style than substance are guys like Harold Miner, who was a bust. Or on a higher level guys like JR Rider, Ricky Davis, JR Smith, etc. Highly talented, freak athlete, and good players. But they didn't get the most out of there ability.
Guys like Nique and AI are who they are. They are true Batman and can carry a team. They have the heart of a lion and are truly HOF players. But I admit, guys like MJ, Kobe, Wade, and West are on another level than AI. And SF's like Bird, Doc, Barry, and Bron are on another level than Nique. The reason being is because they have more complete all around games and are more effecient scoring the rock. But other than guys like that, I feel Nique and AI don't have to take a backseat to any players at their positions. U can argue others of course, but the guys I named I would CLEARLY take over a Nique or AI.
[QUOTE=rodman91]Dirk is an elite scorer. Don't be stats nerds..even though his stats says same.
7 footer with one of the greatest shooting touch.He has one of the most impossible move to guard.He is one of the best go to guy. And clutch.
You don't even need his records to see it.But still by stats, how many guys have 48% FG, 38% 3pts and 88% FT while scoring 23 ppg in 13 years?[/QUOTE]
seriously, this is a dude who's dropped 50 points in a playoff games (granted, it was against the Suns who obviously didn't hang their hat on defense) and just scored 48 points in a playoff game with insane efficiency . . . but he isn't an elite scorer. Lol.
The idea that Dirk isn't in the same league as Durant as a scorer is absurd. Dirk could probably drop 30ppg if all the Mavs did was run him around screens all day, but that's not using him to the best of his abilities. I actually think Dirk is a good model for Durant to mold his game after as he continues to improve.
[QUOTE=RRR3]Dwyane Wade career: 25.4 PPG on 48.5 shooting
Dirk: 23.0 PPG on 47.6 shooting
:facepalm[/QUOTE]
And?
I said they were on par with each other.
What's your point numbskull?
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]LOL....so now volume gets completely ignored.
Here are some facts for you...playoffs:
kobe 25.4 ppg on 44.8/33.5/81.5.....54.2% TS
dirk 25.9 ppg on 46.5/38.4/89.2.....58.4% TS
But yea, Dirk isn't an elite scorer. He just trumps Kobe in every scoring statistic there is. And Kobe is absolutely an elite scorer.
Do you realize that Dirk is 15th all time in playoff points scored?
Do you realize that Dirk is 8th all time in playoff points per game?
Do you realize that Dirk is 28th all time in playoff true shooting percentage? Which by my count is the highest TS% in NBA playoff history for any player averaging over 25ppg in their playoff careers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by my count, Dirk is the most efficient scorer in playoff history over 25ppg.
LOL...and he's not elite...[/QUOTE]
Scorer means you score alot? No?
A scorer scores points. An elite scorer is among the top scorers. Excuses are never consulted. If Yao didn't get tired, he could take a high volume of shots - but he couldn't. Therefore he isn't in the argument.
If another player scores more than you, who is the greater scorer? If you are not among the top scorers, it is impossible to be an elite scorer. I'll just stick with the elite argument for now, maybe we do the next to elite later.
Do you really think Dirk is on the level of Jordan, Hakeem, AI, Wilt, Shaq, Baylor, Gervin, Wade, Lebron? Those guys are the elite. I might be missing somebody but it isn't Dirk. Dirk doesn't have multiple years of great scoring like these guys have. Therefore he can't be considered in their company. Kobe is in there company because he's got several years where he leads in regular season and post season like those guys. There are years where he stands out. Dirk just doesn't have the feature these guys have. Dirk has no standout year where you go "Wow! what a scoring accomplishment." Are you seriously trying to say Dirk belongs in that company???
Did somebody say efficient scorer? - its not the same thing. Artis GIlmore was an incredibly efficient scorer.