"Kobe Bryant is not as money as we think" - Henry Abbott

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Great post, man. :cheers:[/QUOTE]

thanks

:cheers:

this whole clutch topic is a really interesting one

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Its never that simple, but right now the Lakers are "deciding" to let the least efficient late game player take 28 shots per 36 minutes of crunch time.

That is a decision they have made against all logic and evidence.

You can decide to run plays and not iso. You can decide to drop it down to the bigs a little more often.

Its not simple, but its not rocket science either. Its still just basketball.[/QUOTE]

the detroit overtime was an interesting case, from very recently

the lakers basically just handed kobe the ball, and had pau pick for him

the pistons (despite kobe scoring very inefficeintly most of the night) tried to trap him. he happily gave up the ball to pau, who hit a mid range jumper or two. then the pistons made an adjustment, and bynum's man began rotating out onto gasol, and when they did this, pau just dumped it down to bynum for about two more fgs, ( one was an and1 iirc)

then finally, the pistons adjusted again, and had stuckey rotate down to bynum, leaving artest open from 3. he, predictably, bricked it.

kobe was as unselfish as you could ask, but because he wasnt isolated, the pistons could help onto whomever they needed, and leave the lakers non-threats alone.

if the pistons had been smarter, (and most decent defensive teams would have been) they would have played the lakers this way from the start, and not given up as many easy looks as they did.



the lesson learned was, kobe gave up the ball, but he wasnt isolated, so the pistons were able to help oneanother, and as a result they were able to force artest to try and beat them.

[QUOTE=chips93]the detroit overtime was an interesting case, from very recently

the lakers basically just handed kobe the ball, and had pau pick for him

the pistons (despite kobe scoring very inefficeintly most of the night) tried to trap him. he happily gave up the ball to pau, who hit a mid range jumper or two. then the pistons made an adjustment, and bynum's man began rotating out onto gasol, and when they did this, pau just dumped it down to bynum for about two more fgs, ( one was an and1 iirc)

then finally, the pistons adjusted again, and had stuckey rotate down to bynum, leaving artest open from 3. he, predictably, bricked it.

kobe was as unselfish as you could ask, but because he wasnt isolated, the pistons could help onto whomever they needed, and leave the lakers non-threats alone.

if the pistons had been smarter, (and most decent defensive teams would have been) they would have played the lakers this way from the start, and not given up as many easy looks as they did.



the lesson learned was, kobe gave up the ball, but he wasnt isolated, so the pistons were able to help oneanother, and as a result they were able to force artest to try and beat them.[/QUOTE]
:applause:

[QUOTE=chips93]thanks

:cheers:

this whole clutch topic is a really interesting one[/QUOTE]

It is, because I don't think Kobe is going to be BAD exactly, in clutch situations. He generally will make a shot if you guard him ISO.

It's all about approach. I mean, sure, you got Kobe who can make any shot on the floor if you need him to, but that's not necessarily the best shot you can take.

There's more ways to go about it with the Lakers offense. Another thing that really didn't get covered is Mike Brown's inability to run offense. That right there is another reason why the Laker's struggle so much in the crunch time offense.

I mean, there's also the stress factor going into the games. It can't be all numbers like the article is stating. Some of these guys are going to feel fatigued as hell, coming down to the stretch.

I feel that big men get tired even more, so that's why when people say "give to the big men", how much stamina do they have left ? They can't create as well down the stretch as a guard can... which is why most of the time, you don't see them with the ball down the stretch. And that's not just the Lakers, that's pretty much every other team.

Most teams don't have big men who can create their own shot, with the same amount of stamina. It's almost funny that Dwight Howard says he wants to be the closer. There are too many holes in his game for the crunch time pressure...

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Bynum is shooting 87% in crunch time this year
Kobe is shooting 27% in crunch time this year

You can never be 100% sure, but logic would tell you that Kobe needs to stop shooting so much late in games.

Its really not that hard. Kobe either needs to play a lot better or pass more. Pick one.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/243/50351ydhlaorl.jpg[/IMG]

Abbott is a brain-dead moron. Why do people even read his agenda-driven BS? :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Abbott is a brain-dead moron. Why do people even read his agenda-driven BS? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Just like dumb nuts here follow Jason Whitlock........

Journalist need stories, and when they don't have one, they make up one. They get paid for writing.........so they write. Nothing more to it......the topic that gets the most hits = $$$$

Just get a laugh when these morons go to writers for food for thought.....just tells you how pathetic and retarded they are......Just look how they get a thread 4-10 pages strong on the topic :oldlol: :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Droid101]How is Andrew Bynum going to create his own shot in clutch situations?[/QUOTE]
Kobe is going to create for him. defenses would collapse on Kobe and IF Kobe passes to either Gasol or Bynum, they get a great look. doesn't take a genius to understand this, does it?

if abbott is so full of shit, then why cant either of you find any holes in his story?

[quote]fact is, most teams make small mistakes on defense every possession, thats why simple offenses work. somebody gets lost on a screen, somebody misses a rotation, somebody is ball watching, these things occur in regular situations and yield baskets for the offense. offenses rely on defenses making mistakes.

but in crunch time, when the defense is locked in, these mistakes are greatly reduced, so the offensive teams suffer, if they are running standard sets.[/quote]
You're right. On the other hand, run the plays harder. You've got a guy with the ball in motion, 2 guys coming off screens, one big guy moving to a different spot down low.... that's a lot for a defense to keep up with, and the defense must always react. You get enough movement chances are something will open up even with the defense trying. If not? 8 seconds on the shot clock? Fine, then you run Kobe off a screen, give him the ball on the wing for an iso. Maybe send Pau over for a pick. Nobody's saying the focus shouldn't be on Kobe, but nothing else is even tried, because Kobe's convinced that if anyone other than him has the ball for more than a second, they're going to dribble it off their foot or something.

[quote]But what i don't get is how people just assume that giving the ball to Pau or Bynum to take the last shot would necessarily work out. How do you know? People just scream "Give it to the bigs!"[/quote]
Well, you're right, neither of these bigs is nearly as clutch as Kobe is. Nobody's as clutch as Kobe is. But the bigs are taking shots that are 5-8 feet away from the basket, over guys who are shorter than they. Kobe's taking shots 20 feet away from the basket, and he's not bothering to screen out those that are very unlikely to go in and that are likely to have rhythm-disrupting long rebounds... he's not looking for what's developing down low (like a favorable mismatch). He doesn't care who's in position to rebound. He just chucks. It's hero-ball. Great article.

[QUOTE=chips93]if abbott is so full of shit, then why cant either of you find any holes in his story?[/QUOTE]

I think it's because some people are taking it as the perception that Kobe has never performed or just flat out sucks in the clutch.

So rather than break it down, paragraph by paragraph (which I know some people can do and find a great counter-argument)... it comes down to childish name calling ?

I've also read on the ESPN site comment section of that article, some of these fans giving Abbott death threats. Why is that warranted, exactly ? Just break down the article...

[QUOTE=chips93]if abbott is so full of shit, then why cant either of you find any holes in his story?[/QUOTE]
Here is the response to the posted article by the Blog I posted: [url]http://wrongagainhen.wordpress.com/[/url]


[quote]Henry posted an interesting list of FG% in crunch time in support of an article once again harping on how Kobe isn’t the closer everyone thinks he is. In that list, the Laker’s late-game field goal percentage was higher than the Thunder, the Blazers, the Suns, the Clippers, and the Bulls.

It’s a shame that Henry wrote what he did (or rather, rewrote or republished). Rather than see that list as a potential window for a more insightful investigation, he put the same axe on the same grindstone and churned away. Whereas I was thinking: How do the Lakers have a better late offense than Durant/Westbrook, the team-oriented Blazers, the unselfish PG-led Suns and Clippers (headed by Chris Paul, the leader of the best crunchtime offense in NBA history or somesuch at New Orleans), and the Bulls?

But what’s even better is he then followed it up with a video of Derrick Rose winning a game by going iso with the last shot. And remember, Rose beat the Lakers on an iso shot over a doubleteam earlier in the season, a fact which went unmentioned in a post where Abbott criticized Kobe for going iso over a doubleteam IN THE VERY SAME GAME.

There are a few thoughts I might think about if I were going to write about the Lakers. Thoughts that might lead to more interesting questions than the same idea that Henry Abbott keeps hitting.

--There is not a Lakers fan in the world, including me, who doesn’t think Kobe is taking bad shots.

--The reason for that, and the suggested solutions, are up for debate.

--Is it possible that things like fatigue, game decisions, usage, and turnovers would be different if Kobe were playing with a competent point guard? Particularly in a new offensive system that, like most NBA offenses except the triangle, needs a PG?

--Before you go harping on about how wonderfully efficient Gasol and Bynum are, make sure you watch them play. See how often they assert themselves and demand the ball. Note that Bynum described his demeanor in the loss to the Wizards as “loafing”. Is he the next LA alpha male?

--Did Kobe Bryant’s ballhogging somehow force Andrew Bynum to turn the ball over 7 times against the Wizards?

--Just because a player shoots 6-11, does it mean he would shoot 12-22? 18 for 33?

--Where are Henry Abbott’s articles about Kobe when he goes 13-24 against the Kings or 14-23 agains the Heat?

--Would giving Darius Morris serious minutes really be that much worse than what Fisher and Blake currently bring? (Morris was just sent down to the D-League.)

--How is Kobe responsible for losing 10 points of the lead against Washington when he was sitting on the bench for the last 2 minutes of the 3rd quarter?

--Is there a team in the league with worse players in the 4 through 12 slots on the roster?[/quote]

Abbott is a hack. And a terrible writer to boot.

[QUOTE=Droid101]Here is the response to the posted article by the Blog I posted: [url]http://wrongagainhen.wordpress.com/[/url]

Abbott is a hack. And a terrible writer to boot.[/QUOTE]

That was very well thought out.

Nice to see some objectivity and rebuttal to the article.

:applause:

[QUOTE=Clifton]You're right. [B]On the other hand, run the plays harder. [/B]You've got a guy with the ball in motion, 2 guys coming off screens, one big guy moving to a different spot down low.... that's a lot for a defense to keep up with, and the defense must always react. You get enough movement chances are something will open up even with the defense trying. If not? 8 seconds on the shot clock? Fine, then you run Kobe off a screen, give him the ball on the wing for an iso. Maybe send Pau over for a pick. Nobody's saying the focus shouldn't be on Kobe, but nothing else is even tried, because Kobe's convinced that if anyone other than him has the ball for more than a second, they're going to dribble it off their foot or something.[/QUOTE]

thing about bolded is, everybody prefers to play offense. so there just isnt that much more effort to give. everybody likes to score, whenever during the game, so i dont think that there is a ton more effort that you can give, unlike defense, where plenty of guys have a lot more effort that they could give.

i totally agree that the lakers should have more movement. im not saying what they are doing is the best option, im just trying to say that 'just running plays' doesnt always get you better shots. it can lead to confusion, and worse shots.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I think it's because some people are taking it as the perception that Kobe has never performed or just flat out sucks in the clutch.

So rather than break it down, paragraph by paragraph (which I know some people can do and find a great counter-argument)... it comes down to childish name calling?

I've also read on the ESPN site comment section of that article, some of these fans giving Abbott death threats. Why is that warranted, exactly? Just break down the article...[/QUOTE]

its not just this though, its when people just brush something off by dismissing the person who wrote it. its not just the abbott-kobe crunch time think, it happens all the time. its just a lazy way of thinking.

[QUOTE]
Is it possible that things like fatigue, game decisions, usage, and turnovers would be different if Kobe were playing with a competent point guard? Particularly in a new offensive system that, like most NBA offenses except the triangle, needs a PG?
[/QUOTE]

i hate to bring lebron into it unnecessarily, but james had brown as a coach in cleveland, with a pg who couldnt create for others, but it didnt force him int taking bad shots in crunch time, so why cant kobe?

[QUOTE]
--Before you go harping on about how wonderfully efficient Gasol and Bynum are, make sure you watch them play. See how often they assert themselves and demand the ball. Note that Bynum described his demeanor in the loss to the Wizards as

Anybody insinuating Bynum should be a number 1 option needs to get smacked in the face. Have you ever seen this kid try to handle a double team? Now imagine no Kobe, and he's the main option. His team would be atrocious. He can't pass to save his life. Kobe's agenda is score, score, score ... but I at least know he can handle doubles and has the ABILITY to read defenses and pass. It's just not in his nature to give it up. Is it selfish? Sure. But he's still the better more proven number 1 option.