Melo is averaging 4rpg, 1apg, and shooting 40% in this series.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41][B]Are there 25 players in your tier in which all these guys are in? That isn't a tier.[/B]

If you put Melo and JJ in the same tier....you are listing like 30 plus players. Honestly...where does Joe Johnson rank in the NBA in terms of the best players.

Is he top 40?[/QUOTE]
I think it's fair. Basic A player, B players, C player, etc.

It's fair enough. It's not it a real ranking system or anything.

As for JJ. Yeah, I'd say he's a top 40 player in the NBA.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Yea, but he's not in their tier. He's definitely in a higher tier than those guys. Definitely.[/QUOTE]

Imo he is in the same tier as Boozer etc. Melo, like Rose, is unfairly getting all of the credit for his team which mainly wins with team defense which he has nothing to do with in an attempt to artificially create a "superstar" with hype to generating ratings in a big market.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]There are games in which Boozer and Griffin are also liabilities. Melo makes the other team develop entire game plans around stopping him. Griffin and Boozer are afterthoughts....and afterthoughts that both struggle defensively and have limited games as well.

And Marc Gasol is not clearly better than Melo either.

I get the point you and the other guy are trying to make, but please...listing the likes of JJ/Griffin/Boozer are just really bad examples. Terrible really...[/QUOTE]


Carmelo is more talented than Boozer and Griffin. He SHOULD be easily a better player. But the way he plays, his low IQ basketball, compromises his overall impact.

I'm telling you man. The adjusted numbers ALWAYS reveal that guys like Carmelo do not nearly have the impact that most people think they do. They basically take shots that end up giving them credit for what the rest of the team could have done easily by moving the ball. And where is his impact in the other aspects? It's negligible. So therefore he's really not a huge difference maker.

Not everyone can pass and defend like Marc Gasol. The team itself can't compensate for having a guy like him being able to pass and defend from the post. The team itself can compensate for guys like Carmelo shooting 44%. That's just a fact. Plain and simple.

People who act like adjusted stats are worthless just hate them because it exposes their favorite player. They dont tell the whole story, but they tell more of it than raw stats. Carmelo is one of the players who sees the biggest drop from raw stats to adjusted stats. He's a really overrated player.

[QUOTE=OldSkoolball#52]I've seen you over rate Kobe, and for the exact same reasons you are overrating Carmelo.

He is not "responsible" for the Knicks have a good season this year. He was one guy who was part of a successful team. Boozer and Griffin were the same way. Carmelo Anthony is not some big difference maker. He's just not. He just makes more highlights than other guys because out of all the factors that contirbute to winning a basketball game, scoring happens to be the one that gets the most attention on sports center.[/QUOTE]

Just to get this straight. You are using "highlights" as the reason Melo is known to be an elite player...and then turning around and talking about Griffin.

Is there a player in the league that benefits more from highlights than Griffin?

WTF are you talking about?

Yea...Kobe wasn't the driving force on the Lakers. They looked great without him against the Spurs...and their offense was amazing.

I've now heard it all. Melo is on the same tier as Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]I think it's fair. Basic A player, B players, C player, etc.

It's fair enough. It's not it a real ranking system or anything.

As for JJ. Yeah, I'd say he's a top 40 player in the NBA.[/QUOTE]

And where you do rank Melo? Let's say JJ is the 35th best player in the league...that honestly is probably high, but for argument sake that is fine.

Where does Melo rank for you?

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]There are games in which Boozer and Griffin are also liabilities. Melo makes the other team develop entire game plans around stopping him. Griffin and Boozer are afterthoughts....and afterthoughts that both struggle defensively and have limited games as well.

And Marc Gasol is not clearly better than Melo either.

I get the point you and the other guy are trying to make, but please...listing the likes of JJ/Griffin/Boozer are just really bad examples. Terrible really...[/QUOTE]

Marc Gasol is easily better than Melo. Volume low efficiency no defense chuckers like Melo are extremely overrated.

[QUOTE=OldSkoolball#52]Carmelo is more talented than Boozer and Griffin. He SHOULD be easily a better player. But the way he plays, his low IQ basketball, compromises his overall impact.

I'm telling you man. The adjusted numbers ALWAYS reveal that guys like Carmelo do not nearly have the impact that most people think they do. They basically take shots that end up giving them credit for what the rest of the team could have done easily by moving the ball. And where is his impact in the other aspects? It's negligible. So therefore he's really not a huge difference maker.

Not everyone can pass and defend like Marc Gasol. The team itself can't compensate for having a guy like him being able to pass and defend from the post. The team itself can compensate for guys like Carmelo shooting 44%. That's just a fact. Plain and simple.

People who act like adjusted stats are worthless just hate them because it exposes their favorite player. They dont tell the whole story, but they tell more of it than raw stats. Carmelo is one of the players who sees the biggest drop from raw stats to adjusted stats. He's a really overrated player.[/QUOTE]

I agree he is over-rated...but that doesn't make guys like Boozer and JJ and Griffin as good as him.

And you keep using Marc Gasol...why? He does things those other guys don't. Like actually defend and pass the ball well...etc.

Wow...April 2013 has never been more appropriate.

[QUOTE=secund2nun]Marc Gasol is easily better than Melo. Volume low efficiency no defense chuckers like Melo are extremely overrated.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't argue too much over that one....certainly more reasonable than Boozer/Griffin/JJ:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Just to get this straight. You are using "highlights" as the reason Melo is known to be an elite player...and then turning around and talking about Griffin.

Is there a player in the league that benefits more from highlights than Griffin?

WTF are you talking about?

[B]Yea...Kobe wasn't the driving force on the Lakers. They looked great without him against the Spurs...and their offense was amazing.[/B]

I've now heard it all. Melo is on the same tier as Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer.[/QUOTE]
Not really an honest comparison. The Spurs are a great team. It's not like the Lakers WITH Kobe this season were routinely beating quality opponents. Kobe-less Lakers beat the spurs before the playoffs. Doesn't mean anything. Lakers would have been swept with or without Kobe.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Just to get this straight. You are using "highlights" as the reason Melo is known to be an elite player...and then turning around and talking about Griffin.

Is there a player in the league that benefits more from highlights than Griffin?

WTF are you talking about?

Yea...Kobe wasn't the driving force on the Lakers. They looked great without him against the Spurs...and their offense was amazing.

I've now heard it all. Melo is on the same tier as Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer.[/QUOTE]

You are really overrating scoring. I value scoring, but high efficiency scoring. Melo's low efficiency scoring is useless and often times destructive, not to mention his bad D.

LA looked about as bad this playoffs as they did the last 2 playoffs when Kobe played including getting swept by Dallas. SA would have swept them with Kobe as well just like Dallas did 2 years ago or how OKC did in 5 last season to LA.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]I wouldn't argue too much over that one....certainly more reasonable than Boozer/Griffin/JJ:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]

I think you are underrating Griffin. He developed a nice post game and has been a great passer/improved defender this year. I wouldn't call comparing him to Melo absurd (although Melo is clearly better), while I would consider comparing Melo to JJ/Boozer laughable.

[QUOTE=secund2nun]You are really overrating scoring. I value scoring, but high efficiency scoring. Melo's low efficiency scoring is useless and often times destructive, not to mention his bad D.

LA looked about as bad this playoffs as they did the last 2 playoffs when Kobe played including getting swept by Dallas. SA would have swept them with Kobe as well just like Dallas did 2 years ago or how OKC did in 5 last season to LA.[/QUOTE]

Maybe Melo's efficiency is destructive if you're comparing him to Lebron. But if you are comparing Melo's efficiency to the efficiency to the Knick's without Melo, then Melo's contested 3s are much more efficient over the long haul than Raymond Felton creating for the team.

Team's have to shoot the ball eventually, and if no one can create a good shot, having a guy like Melo is a huge asset.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Not really an honest comparison. The Spurs are a great team. It's not like the Lakers WITH Kobe this season were routinely beating quality opponents. Kobe-less Lakers beat the spurs before the playoffs. Doesn't mean anything. Lakers would have been swept with or without Kobe.[/QUOTE]
They were 26-12 with Kobe to close the season and started playing legit defense once Dwight got healthier. Their offense was top 6-8 all year and plummeted to some of the worst Laker offenses in recent time without him after his injury. Definitely not a guaranteed sweep with him.

[QUOTE=secund2nun]You are really overrating scoring. I value scoring, but high efficiency scoring. Melo's low efficiency scoring is useless and often times destructive, not to mention his bad D.

LA looked about as bad this playoffs as they did the last 2 playoffs when Kobe played including getting swept by Dallas. SA would have swept them with Kobe as well just like Dallas did 2 years ago or how OKC did in 5 last season to LA.[/QUOTE]

But you are comparing him to other guys that have just as many weaknesses and don't demand the kind of attention Melo does.

JJ is less efficient and scores much less...8 point less per game in the playoffs I think. What does JJ do that puts him on the same tier as Melo? The answer is nothing.

Boozer is a nice complimentary piece, but he's not the caliber of player Melo is. And if you are going to use Melo's defense...Boozer is hardly a great defender himself. All Boozer does well on defense is rebound.

Griffin is easily the best player out of the 3 you guys have mentioned...and even then Melo is clearly the better player right now. You talk about efficiency? Griffin is shooting 44% in the playoffs this year. And his rebounding is just not good either. He can't stretch the floor and he's an average defender at best. He does nothing to make other teams scared and game plan around.

I totally agree that Melo is over-rated...been saying it for years. But don't over correct and start comparing him to players that he is clearly better than.

[QUOTE=chazzy]They were 26-12 with Kobe to close the season and started playing legit defense once Dwight got healthier. Their offense was top 6-8 all year and plummeted to some of the worst Laker offenses in recent time without him after his injury. Definitely not a guaranteed sweep with him.[/QUOTE]

Most of those wins came against subpar teams also that was a regular season. They lose in 4-5 with Kobe to the Spurs (most likely 4 games). They got destroyed with Kobe in 5 last year by OKC and in 4 by Dallas in 2011.