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[QUOTE=FrobeShaw]Go look at the damn HoF before talking out of your ass. Perhaps you'll be surprised at the names.[/QUOTE]
I can almost guarantee that the players that aren't 'franchise' players were either:
-Multiple champions and played a pivotal role
-Helped revolutionize an aspect/position
Marion has done nothing of being remembered. A solid player barely an all star at his peak. Has done nothing on the collegiate level or international play worth noting either.
[QUOTE=andgar923]I can almost guarantee that the players that aren't 'franchise' players were either:
-Multiple champions and played a pivotal role
-Helped revolutionize an aspect/position
Marion has done nothing of being remembered. . Has done nothing on the collegiate level or international play worth noting either.[/QUOTE]
22/12/2/2 are barely all-star numbers?
Find everyone, in the modern era, who has done that stat line. It will be Hakeem and Robinson. Pretty good company, I'd say.
Also, go look at the HoF and come back and tell me how you really feel.
I've always thought HOFers should have been Top 3-5 at their position for a consistent period of time, revolutionized their position somehow, or at least excelled at something so much that it couldn't be ignored. I don't think Marion meets the criteria. Stats aren't everything and should be put into context. Marion wasn't putting up 20/10 like most stars in the league. He was a good garbageman on a fast-paced team. He used his athleticism and ran the floor hard for layups and dunks (it helps when Marbury, Kidd or Nash are spoonfeeding you) and hit the offensive glass for put-backs but he wasn't the guy you were going to throw the ball to and have him create for himself or anyone else. If Marion were a serious offensive threat and putting up 20/10 he would certainly have more than two All-NBA third teams.
Only 4 all-star games and a title as a complementary piece shouldn't get you in the HOF.
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It's disturbing that he's NEVER made a single All-Defensive Team. Then again, in 2014, I don't think many take accolades seriously anymore, fortunately.
[QUOTE=fpliii]It's disturbing that he's NEVER made a single All-Defensive Team. Then again, in 2014, I don't think many take accolades seriously anymore, fortunately.[/QUOTE]
Kobe Bryant has the most first team all defensive honors for his generation. :rockon:
[QUOTE=FrobeShaw]Kobe Bryant has the most first team all defensive honors for his generation. :rockon:[/QUOTE]
I'm a big Kobe fan, but some of his all-D selections are shams.
Marion's peak year was 05-06 when he became the 1st scoring option when Amare went down. Where did he rank among players that year ? Top 15-20 ? :confusedshrug:
Just can't see the substance for him going in, but I wouldn't exactly be surprised if he went in either. The basketball HOF is easy mode standards.
[QUOTE=fpliii]It's disturbing that he's NEVER made a single All-Defensive Team. Then again, in 2014, I don't think many take accolades seriously anymore, fortunately.[/QUOTE]
While Kobe made ten or something:facepalm :facepalm
[QUOTE=fpliii]It's disturbing that he's NEVER made a single All-Defensive Team. Then again, in 2014, I don't think many take accolades seriously anymore, fortunately.[/QUOTE]
I would say Marion was penalized for playing on those Suns teams who were average defensively but then again Raja Bell made the All-D team when playing with the Suns so who knows?
[QUOTE=FrobeShaw]22/12/2/2 are barely all-star numbers?
Find everyone, in the modern era, who has done that stat line. It will be Hakeem and Robinson. Pretty good company, I'd say.
Also, go look at the HoF and come back and tell me how you really feel.[/QUOTE]
He was a reserve for almost all of them was he not? that's "barely" making it.
Yeah... go look at HOFers and compare them to Marion.
Do not solely judge them by their stats, but by their accomplishments and contributions.
Marion was a good rebounder that wasn't guarded, he was left alone to roam free offensively on teams that shot a ton of shots and missed them as well.
He was a solid/good defender but never a Defensive Player Player of the Year candidate (was he even ever in the running?).
[QUOTE=andgar923]He was a reserve for almost all of them was he not? that's "barely" making it.
Yeah... go look at HOFers and compare them to Marion.
Do not solely judge them by their stats, but by their accomplishments and contributions.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's what I did too. Also, I went by how they were regarded at their respective time. Marion's best production came in a span of years was from... 01-02 to 05-06. Was ever regarded as a Top 10 player ? Or the best at his position ? Top 5 at his position perhaps ? And even then, it didn't last very long.
Like I said before, he's not HOF according to the standards I see it. The HOF should be for the very elite level of players. The ones that were consistently up there as perennial all-stars, number of all-nba/defensive teams, MVP voting, memorable and very high level of playoff runs, etc... Marion just doesn't meet that requirement. But obviously, as there have been worse player who have made it in, I wouldn't be surprised if he went in.
Out of the 'active' HOF probability players he ranks at no.21.
Now those are for players that are active. He's eligible after he retires (forgot the number of seasons). Not only that, he has to go up against other players that haven't been inducted yet that have been in the ballot in the past. On top of that, he has to go up against international and college players. Those are just players, that's not including coaches, and other people that made a contribution to the game of basketball.
And even then, his numbers are misleading like hitman explained above.
Nobody that's seen him play will think "he's a HOF player!!!"
Not a 1st ballot, not a 2nd, not a 3rd, not a 4th, not a 5th.
[QUOTE=andgar923]Out of the 'active' HOF probability players he ranks at no.21.
Now those are for players that are active. He's eligible after he retires (forgot the number of seasons). Not only that, he has to go up against other players that haven't been inducted yet that have been in the ballot in the past. On top of that, he has to go up against international and college players. Those are just players, that's not including coaches, and other people that made a contribution to the game of basketball.
And even then, his numbers are misleading like hitman explained above.
[B]Nobody that's seen him play will think "he's a HOF player!!!"[/B]
Not a 1st ballot, not a 2nd, not a 3rd, not a 4th, not a 5th.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree, but I think he's likely going to make it in based on some of the selections in the past. I do think you're underrating his chances somewhat given how the HOF selects guys, but I'm more of a small hall guy personally. A lot of players who have been enshrined have had no business making it in, but Naismith is very inclusive (compared to Cooperstown for instance...the voters there are misguided, but I like a more exclusive hall).