SHAQisGOAT - I'm working on something now, but I should have time to type at least one quote up tonight, possibly more.
I'll do the Walton one first, and work from there.
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SHAQisGOAT - I'm working on something now, but I should have time to type at least one quote up tonight, possibly more.
I'll do the Walton one first, and work from there.
[QUOTE=stanlove1111]Haven't read it in a while but from what I remember.
He was annoyed at the media hype surrounding Walton. Said it wasn't Walton's fault but thought that because Walton was white the media used Walton to put Jabbar down. Complained that the media almost enjoyed saying Walton was better then himself. Especially was annoyed after playoff series when the media was saying that Walton outplayed him and was happy to say it.
He said that they both played a great series and if someone thought Walton was better he understood it, but thought they went overboard just to knock himself.
Said Walton was a great player and his intensity made him hard to play against. Also mentioned that Walton played ALOT of defense is they way he put it.
About Maravich..Don't remember and I would think there was really no point in spending much time talking about a guy who basically added nothing to a team in terms of value.[/QUOTE]
:cheers:
[B]I wouldn't go that far I think, but there's some truth to it. Anyways, in 1977 (at his peak) Kareem clearly outplayed Bill, not that Walton wasn't terrific himself and didn't do a great job but point still clearly stands, again Bill, as great as he was, had easily better teammates around (not really that hard when you look at Kareem's).
Just wanted to see where he stood in regards to Pistol. I've seen some players (of his time) praise him a lot, like he was never in the right situation and was born in the wrong era (Frazier, West, Tiny, some teammates...) and others criticizing him for not understanding team play and defense, from hot-dogging too much etc (Oscar, teammate Lou Hudson...).[/B]
[QUOTE=fpliii]SHAQisGOAT - I'm working on something now, but I should have time to type at least one quote up tonight, possibly more.
I'll do the Walton one first, and work from there.[/QUOTE]
:cheers:
As I said in the past, the media coverage of Kareem's teams and the infatuation with perimeter players are a BIG reason why he isn't held to w/ higher regard.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Julizaver, I was always a bit curious about how Magic and Wilt would be treated. Two guys that had the most impact on his legacy - and ironically two guys he went to for financial advice. The sexual reference to Wilt was a bit wild (have him any way I wanted) and a bit out of character. But his frankness otherwise in the book was really good in that book. Kareem is a bit sensitive about his legacy. He seemingly always had people problems and didn't know its extent on others.[/QUOTE]
Wilt was mentoring young Kareem, but in my opinion Magic was the one who help Kareem legacy the most.
I have not questioning his greatness, and he really had great games vs Wilt, no need to discuss it here. If Kareem was writing the book now he would have more balanced views.
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT]:cheers:
[B]I wouldn't go that far I think, but there's some truth to it. Anyways, in 1977 (at his peak) Kareem clearly outplayed Bill, not that Walton wasn't terrific himself and didn't do a great job but point still clearly stands, again Bill, as great as he was, had easily better teammates around (not really that hard when you look at Kareem's).
Just wanted to see where he stood in regards to Pistol. I've seen some players (of his time) praise him a lot, like he was never in the right situation and was born in the wrong era (Frazier, West, Tiny, some teammates...) and others criticizing him for not understanding team play and defense, from hot-dogging too much etc (Oscar, teammate Lou Hudson...).[/B]
:cheers:[/QUOTE]
lol still busy, Walton will have to wait until tomorrow night I think. Sorry guys.
:rockon:
Although with players like Kareem it's deserved, athletes egos are hilarious. No matter how intelligent they are it usually always leaks out :lol
Completely random but I'd love a round table discussion with Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, Russell, and a host of other HOF big men to talk about and watch footage of all of each other. Each generation has it's bias but it'd be interesting. I want to see Russell sit down and watch Hakeem and talk about him, to see Shaq watch prime Chamberlain footage and say how'd he'd match up....I'd imagine Shaq having his ego go wild, but then unlike how it usually goes, he'd have to hush and listen to Kareems and Russells retort if they had one to what he says. Haven't watched much of the show since Shaq came along but I hear he likes to use his ranking all time against the other hosts, which he simply couldn't do to some of those guys
Great post, as always. Gonna have to give this one a read. :applause:
[QUOTE=iamgine]:rockon:[/QUOTE]
lol sorry, I've been busy/lazy. Soon. :pimp:
I've added some more quotes. I might type a couple more short ones before I go to sleep, otherwise I'll finish another day.
Here's what's remaining:
p.209 (Oscar) (14 paragraphs)
p.266 (73-74 season and 74 playoffs) (12 paragraphs)
p.269 (74-75 season, injury, and changing teams) (5 paragraphs)
p.281 (Benson incident, Kermit Washington fight, and subsequent trade) (Benson 16 paragraphs, Kermit and trade 10 paragraphs)
p.309 (78-79 season) (5 paragraphs)
p.310 (becoming more outgoing, Magic, 79-80 season, 80 Finals) (28 paragraphs)
p.320 (82-83 playoffs, 83-84 season and the scoring record) (10 paragraphs)
If there's anything in particular of the above you guys want me to get to next, let me know. This is about everything of basketball relevance though (there's some stuff on drug use in the NBA and some brief comments of his on some players from other teams cracking jokes and trash-talking, but it'd too long to cover all of that, and it's not really on the court stuff).
good shit.
:cheers:
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT]:cheers:
[B]I wouldn't go that far I think, but there's some truth to it. Anyways, in 1977 (at his peak) Kareem clearly outplayed Bill, not that Walton wasn't terrific himself and didn't do a great job but point still clearly stands, again Bill, as great as he was, had easily better teammates around (not really that hard when you look at Kareem's).
:cheers:[/QUOTE]
I don't agree that Jabbar clearly outplayed him in 1977. Their roles were different and I judge the better player by who adds more to their team. Close between Walton and Jabbar, I know Walton's team sucked when he wasn't in the lineup.
[QUOTE=stanlove1111]I don't agree that Jabbar clearly outplayed him in 1977. Their roles were different and I judge the better player by who adds more to their team. Close between Walton and Jabbar, I know Walton's team sucked when he wasn't in the lineup.[/QUOTE]
[B]I'm not underrating Walton's impact here, it was incredible at his best, one of the best peaks for a center ever, shame for injuries. But Walton clearly had (considerably) better teammates around, plus Kareem's best teammates were Cazzie Russell, Lucius Allen and Kermit Washington, and Lucius and Kermit were injured in the playoffs.. no way they could've won, still the last 3 games were really close.
Look at the numbers too:
Kareem: 30.3 ppg, 16.0 rpg, 3.8 apg, 3.8 bpg on 60.8 %FG/66.0 %TS
Walton: 19.3 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 5.8 apg, 2.3 bpg on 50.7 %FG/51.7 %TS
[/B]
[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]I'm not underrating Walton's impact here, it was incredible at his best, one of the best peaks for a center ever, shame for injuries. But Walton clearly had (considerably) better teammates around, plus Kareem's best teammates were Cazzie Russell, Lucius Allen and Kermit Washington, and Lucius and Kermit were injured in the playoffs.. no way they could've won, still the last 3 games were really close.
Look at the numbers too:
Kareem: 30.3 ppg, 16.0 rpg, 3.8 apg, 3.8 bpg on 60.8 %FG/66.0 %TS
Walton: 19.3 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 5.8 apg, 2.3 bpg on 50.7 %FG/51.7 %TS
[/B][/QUOTE]
Those numbers don't lists defense. Walton was a better defender then Jabbar and I don't think anyone at the time would even argue about that.
Walton's passing was unreal at that time. Assists don't tell the whole story. His outlet passes led to many points that he didn't get assists for. He hit cutters to the basket constantly and many times he hit them for such easy layups that they had to be fouled. he doesn't get assists for that.
And if you watch the game 2 telecast they even talked about how the Lakers game plan was to stop Walton from hitting cutters constantly. In doing this you have to play off the guards which in turn gives them easier jump shots. There is no assist for that.
Rebounds you can't have it both ways. Walton had a better power forward who was a good rebounder which takes rebounds away from Walton.
I an not seeing either center outplayed the other..Thats pretty much how Jabbar saw it also.