I hate MJ but I have him at about #3 or #4. And that's impact on the court. Who I'd build around type of thing.
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I hate MJ but I have him at about #3 or #4. And that's impact on the court. Who I'd build around type of thing.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]People who say Jordan is not the GOAT, is the same thing as people who still say the earth is flat.[/QUOTE]
Nahhh.
I mean, are you gonna say Shakespeare is the best writer? Leonardo is the best artist? Einstein is the smartest man to live? That is what everyone says, but it's not true. It's true enough that you'd have to be kind of a douchebag to confront someone on it... but I think it's very arguable that MJ is on a tier above all other NBA players. Seriously, saying someone is GOAT is like saying you got... MJ tier then the rest and that's BS. MJ is top tier, sure, but it is indistinguishable when it comes to the greatest players.
Kareem, Bill Russell, and Larry Bird (lol sorry I still feel that way) all have an argument to be GOAT. Larry's argument is that he didn't have that dude who was a 1st or 2nd tier great on his squad and still played amazing in a stacked era.
Magic, IMO, doesn't... Wilt IMO doesn't.
What MJ has is the most modern dominance. Peerless dominance, but I saw you saying Shaq dominated a weak era. MJ's era was just as 'weak' as Shaq's if you look at when he was winning.
-Smak
[QUOTE=rmt]I've been watching the NBA since 1977 and IMO, MJ exceeds the gaudy stats. There's just something about the competitive spirit, the cockiness, the confidence - that no one else I've seen has. Combine the game with the mental and he's GOAT to me.
[/QUOTE]
may i ask how old you are
[QUOTE=rmt]I've been watching the NBA since 1977 and IMO, MJ exceeds the gaudy stats. There's just something about the competitive spirit, the cockiness, the confidence - that no one else I've seen has. Combine the game with the mental and he's GOAT to me.
[/QUOTE]
may i ask how old you are
[QUOTE=played0ut]may i ask how old you are[/QUOTE]
51. Why?
[QUOTE=rmt]51. Why?[/QUOTE]
Watching since '77 is a mighty long time. Wouldn't expect many ISH posters to be above 25, actually.
[QUOTE=Cousin Oliver]I think for him he treated it the way many do their favorite music. The music people fall in love with from 15-20 is often the music they think was the best when they're 50.
For him that was when he loved the game most, he probably associates that period with his coming of age as a man and a player. Like I said previously, it was a list based on nostalgia.[/QUOTE]
A lot of truth in this statement. Being 41 now, I reflect back on that 15-20 year old pocket of time where everything in life seemed to "click", and the music and culture from that era just coincided perfectly. However, using music as an example, the case can be made that the artist promoted back then had a bit more positive passion in what they were doing, when compared to today's "get paid at all cost" type of artists that we see today.
As for MJ, I give big props to the younger generation who actually take the time to do the research themselves about Jordan's game and coming to the same conclusion about him that us older cats did, without the benefit of nostalgia or media influence.
Greatness is greatness no matter what generation it comes from. The fact that we now have instant access to stats, data, full games and video to back up how great MJ was makes most of these haters look straight silly IMO. But hey, they're entertaining too so....
:cheers:
[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Who doesn't have MJ in their top 5?[/QUOTE]
I don't have MJ in my top 5, but rather my first tier. Includes 8 players.
MJ
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Oscar
Edit: I've considered moving Magic to the second tier. Done it a couple times and it felt weird.
[QUOTE=Graviton]I don't know how you can discredit...
10 Scoring titles
5 MVPs
1xDPOY
6/6 Rings and 6 FMVPs
14x All Star
10x All NBA 1st team
9x All D 1st team
2x Olympic Gold Medal
NCAA National Champion[/QUOTE]
I believe the haters call it "mythology". :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Graviton]I don't know how you can discredit...
10 Scoring titles
[B]5 MVPs[/B]
1xDPOY
[B]6/6 Rings and 6 FMVPs[/B]
14x All Star
10x All NBA 1st team
9x All D 1st team
[B]2x Olympic Gold Medal
NCAA National Champion[/B][/QUOTE]
Not trying to discredit Jordan; he's amazing. But the bolded are actually team accomplishments.
With all-star appearances... not sure when fan voting had an input there? But regardless, that's hardly a measure of greatness. Big deal. That means Jordan was a top 20 player 14 times. Show longevity of being great. But by no means does it show him as the GOAT.
[QUOTE=kshutts1]Not trying to discredit Jordan; he's amazing. But the bolded are actually team accomplishments.
With all-star appearances... not sure when fan voting had an input there? But regardless, that's hardly a measure of greatness. Big deal. That means Jordan was a top 20 player 14 times. Show longevity of being great. But by no means does it show him as the GOAT.[/QUOTE]
The stat sheet really only tells 1/3 of Jordan's story anyway.
Things like beating Magic for the first championship, winning the 4th on father's day after coming back, game winner to ice the Cavs in '89, sweeping the Pistons (finally) in '91, flu game, game winner to win the title as his last shot with the Bulls ... stuff like that is probably what makes his career that much more memorable.
[QUOTE=kshutts1]Not trying to discredit Jordan; he's amazing. [B]But the bolded are actually team accomplishments.[/B]
With all-star appearances... not sure when fan voting had an input there? But regardless, that's hardly a measure of greatness. Big deal. That means Jordan was a top 20 player 14 times. Show longevity of being great. But by no means does it show him as the GOAT.[/QUOTE]
Remind us again how many rings the bulls won before and after Jordan played for them? :rolleyes:
Dominated weak era
if he's GOAT then Mikan is top 3 :facepalm
[QUOTE=dubeta]Dominated weak era
if he's GOAT then Mikan is top 3 :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Says the guy who looks up to Bran, who adamantly says Jordan is GOAT and wears no.23 because Jordan (Bran's words here) "is the greatest". :lol
[QUOTE=dubeta]Dominated weak era
if he's GOAT then Mikan is top 3 :facepalm[/QUOTE]
And lebron is [B][SIZE="7"]2/5[/SIZE][/B]. :banana: