Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen's as a leader

[QUOTE=LeBird]:lol can you imagine it though? Some Internet poster harassing Phil Jackson to not make statements about Pippen being the leader because they know it was Jordan. When will you nutters ever grow up? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Man, I hope the Knicks get some extra security at MSG because you never know with these stans.

[QUOTE]R_R can't 'make' Pippen anything. All he's done is post quotes from notable people around that time. If you have a problem, go tell Phil Jackson.[/QUOTE]

Exactly--and it is telling all they are doing is throwing a big temper tantrum. None of them are actually disputing what Jackson said. So if they know it is true why are they getting their Bugs Bunny panties in a wad?

Pippen was a leader in Chicago. He was a leader in Portland. What is the problem?

Pippen was probably best at analyzing Jordan from his action and the way he lead. And because of that, he was able to analyze and interpret them for the other teammates and help them understand what Jordan needed.

This concept could even applied to Bill Russell to a certain extense probably. His ability to analyze opponents, instead of just his teammates, consistently help give his team an edge, while Red Auerbach coached the team to help support them in everything else from strategy/emotional support etc.

This doesn't prove a lot. Phil Jackson is smartass and naturally prefers to take the opposite of the general opinion.

[QUOTE=04mzwach]This doesn't prove a lot. Phil Jackson is smartass and naturally prefers to take the opposite of the general opinion.[/QUOTE]

Why is general opinion relevant? There were only a handful of people who were on the team. What does general opinion know about what goes on in the locker room, in the huddle, what is said on the court, in practice, etc. Moreover, note the Rosen comments. Those are obviously from private conversations with his friend Jackson. There is no conspiracy here.

I do agree, though, that there are limits into how much you can read into one data source, even if it is the greatest source possible in that case. This is why I will later post quotes from Pippen's teammates and other reporters who covered him. The thing is what people say about Pippen in Chicago is what they also say about him in Portland. Is it all one giant conspiracy or was Pippen just a natural leader?

This is why I love reading books about the inner workings of various presidential administrations. There is a lot on the inside that the public does not know, both in terms of substance and internal dynamics among staff.

[QUOTE=LeBird]The thread is about Pippen and the Jordan revolutionary guard are here with their batons. If you couldn't criticise Jordan before, now know that you can't even praise one of his teammates.

Honestly, these posters are sick in the head - they're not trolling, this is how they think. It's like they've tied their own personal self-esteem to the Jordan brand and take it as a personal insult if anything in any way, shape or form detracts from it - even if that is just their own loony projection and not really intended.[/QUOTE]

OP is a notorious Lebron stan who masquerades as a Bulls fan to prop up Pippen and seem impartial in his efforts to diminish Jordan. He's posted this exact message 10+ times already in various threads. That's why most people aren't taking this seriously. Personally I have no interest in discussing Pippen with someone who obviously has no interest whatsoever in Pippen and is just using him as a means to further his Lebron agenda.

Anyone who's done any research on this subject already knows full well that Pippen and Jordan were both great leaders on that team. Pippen was the guy that most of the younger guys went to for leadership or advice, Jordan was the guy who set the championship tone and pushed everyone in practice to get better.

Jordan was great, probably the greatest. He didn't win 6 straight titles though, the Bulls did.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]OP is a notorious Lebron stan who masquerades as a Bulls fan to prop up Pippen and seem impartial in his efforts to diminish Jordan. He's posted this exact message 10+ times already in various threads. That's why most people aren't taking this seriously. Personally I have no interest in discussing Pippen with someone who obviously has no interest whatsoever in Pippen and is just using him as a means to further his Lebron agenda.

Anyone who's done any research on this subject already knows full well that Pippen and Jordan were both great leaders on that team. Pippen was the guy that most of the younger guys went to for leadership or advice, Jordan was the guy who set the championship tone and pushed everyone in practice to get better.[/QUOTE]

:applause:

But don't mind Lebird, good poster, but he is known to ride in the back pockets of these exact type of posters.

It is funny, MJ stans were ripping Pippen's leadership just yesterday and now are mad when evidence to refute them has been presented.

[QUOTE]OP is a notorious Lebron stan[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] 06-14-2009, 06:52 PM #151
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Default Re: You can make a case that LeBron's 2009 Playoff run was Jordanesque!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
This. He has had two golden opportunities to live up to the hype and failed both times. Do you think any real top 10 player would lose with a 66 win team? Dirk doing it is one thing but the alleged future GOAT Lebron???
Show me a 66 win team that couldn't beat the Lakers in the regular season and was basically owned by the Magic in the regular season. Show me a 66 win team with a worse supporting cast. Show me a 66 win team that has everyone but the best player lower their level of play in the playoffs.

Mo Williams, his "sidekick" went straight into the tank in the playoffs, this is common knowledge to anyone who actually watched the games, but Roundball Rock somehow has found a way to blame LeBron.


You are a certifiable idiot.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]06-14-2009, 06:54 PM #153
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Default Re: You can make a case that LeBron's 2009 Playoff run was Jordanesque!
Hey Roundball Rock, you might want to turn over a new leaf and become a real basketball fan instead of a Scottie Pippen/Kobe Bryant apostle....

LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers fell six wins short of their ultimate goal but that should not obscure the fact that James put together one of the greatest individual performances in playoff history. He became the only player to ever average at least 35 ppg, 7 apg and 7 rpg for an entire playoff season; James final numbers in 14 playoff games were 35.3 ppg, 9.1 rpg and 7.3 apg while shooting .510 from the field, .333 from three point range and .749 from the free throw line. There have only been four other 30-7-7 playoff seasons in NBA/ABA playoff history:[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135543&page=11[/url]

[QUOTE] 06-13-2011, 05:11 PM #13
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Default Re: Steve Kerr says LeBron James is Scottie Pippen, not Michael Jordan
Quote:

Originally Posted by Soothing Layup
MJ never scored less then 23 ppg in the finals, pippen was there strictly for his defense/passing. everyone on that bulls team knew their place, and their role. Not the same with this heat team..

Pippen scored over 20 ppg in 4 of his 6 NBA finals and was above 20 ppg in a fifth finals before he injured his back.

Kerr is right in terms of preferred playing style. The two big differences are Lebron is more talented but Pippen had heart. Pippen always gave it 100% in the NBA finals--see Game 1 of the 97' finals as a good example.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226938[/url]

Do you want to me to post my posts in Bulls game threads?

Owning MJ stans is so easy. :pimp:

[QUOTE] Jordan was the guy who set the championship tone and pushed everyone in practice to get better[/QUOTE]

Yeah--it was Jordan AND Pippen who did that. I'll show that when I post his teammates' comments.

[QUOTE=LeBird]The thread is about Pippen and the Jordan revolutionary guard are here with their batons. If you couldn't criticise Jordan before, now know that you can't even praise one of his teammates.

Honestly, these posters are sick in the head - they're not trolling, this is how they think. It's like they've tied their own personal self-esteem to the Jordan brand and take it as a personal insult if anything in any way, shape or form detracts from it - even if that is just their own loony projection and not really intended.[/QUOTE]

Also, there are real Pippen fans on this forum(Smoke117, Da_Realist, 97 Bulls) that had they posted this thread, you'd be seeing more legitimate responses.

More LeBron stanning from me here: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146752[/url]

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock] Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 3.67 average.
Old 09-14-2009, 10:37 PM #1
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Default Perception is reality? Lebron vs. Dirk in the playoffs
Dirk is perceived by many as as a playoff choker but let's compare his playoff record to the man we are all "witnesses to" who is considered to be a good/great playoff performer.

At the outset it has to be stated that, despite the Dirk being a former MVP and a consistent top 5 player, Lebron is the superior player. Therefore it is not surprising his stats are better. What you have to look at is how much each player raises his game during the playoffs.

Dirk in the regular season: 23/9/3 47%/87%/38%
Dirk in the playoffs: 26/11/3 45%/88%/37%
Difference: +3 ppg, +2 rpg, = apg -2% FG, +1 FT, -1 3pt

Dirk raises his game substantially in scoring and rebounding and his shooting decline is insignificant given the fact that defenses are tougher in the playoffs.

Lebron in the regular season: 28/7/7 47%/74%/33%
Lebron in the playoffs: 29/8/7 45%/74%/30%
Difference: +1 ppg, +1 rpg, =apg -2% FG, =FT, -3% 3pt

Lebron improves as well, but not nearly as much as Dirk.

Note: I rounded all numbers. Dirk's regular season ppg is 22.4, his playoff ppg 25.5. Lebron's regular season average is 27.5, in the playoffs he averages 29.4. Dirk still improves more than Lebron in scoring.

In the NBA finals

Dirk: 23/11/3 39% FG, 25% 3's, 89% FT
Lebron: 22/7/7 36% FG, 20% 3's, 69% FT

Both players are the only superstars in NBA history to lead 65+ win teams and never win a ring (Dave Cowens also lost with a 65+ win team but won a ring during his career).

Given the above facts how can one be condemned as a choker and not the other? One is a demigod we are all "witnesses" to while the other is a choker even though his finals numbers are better and he raises his game more in the playoffs vis-a-vis his regular season production?

Last edited by Roundball_Rock : 09-14-2009 at 11:07 PM.[/QUOTE]

Why are MJ stans so dumb?

Pippen is an all-time great and I have no doubts about his leadership abilities and the impact he had on the Bulls' dynasty. However, an obvious agenda is obvious.

[QUOTE=GrapeApe]Pippen is an all-time great and I have no doubts about his leadership abilities and the impact he had on the Bulls' dynasty. However, an obvious agenda is obvious.[/QUOTE]

Was it obvious when MJ stans were saying Pippen was not a leader just yesterday? :lol

[QUOTE]Anyone who's done any research on this subject already knows full well that Pippen and Jordan were both great leaders on that team. Pippen was the guy that most of the younger guys went to for leadership or advice,[B] Jordan was the guy who set the championship tone and pushed everyone in practice to get better.[/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bill Wennington]As for Pippen’s leadership, he became a team captain for the first time in his career and [B]regularly worked with all players, most notably during practice. Wennington said those kinds of actions went a long way, especially with the team’s reserves.[/B]

“He was very helpful and never derogatory,” recalled Wennington. “I was a new guy. I wasn’t even supposed to be on the team. But [B]he was willing to help me out in practice when we were learning plays or working on the best way to cover a guy. He was able to talk to me without giving the impression like I was below him. He really wanted me to succeed and do well because that made him better.”[/B]

[B]Speaking of practice, Wennington said that was where Pippen made his mark, along with Jordan, of course. Both players came in each and every day and gave the same level of effort that you would see on a game night.[/B] It was that kind of consistency that allowed them to be great and lead in the way they did.

“Scottie wanted to win basketball games and he understood that the harder you work in practice, the easier the games are for you,” said Wennington. “He really put his heart and soul into practice and left it all out on the floor.[B] When you have guys of that talent level who are working that hard, it makes practice fun. You have to compete. There were no off days in practice.”[/B]
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Ask any former Chicago Bulls teammate of Scottie Pippen, [B]right down to the man whose NBA career he nearly destroyed before it started in Toni Kukoc, and they'll tell you that he was unequivocally their favorite teammate. Pippen's mix of all-around brilliance on both sides of the ball, coupled with his calm and steady on-court and practice court demeanor, make him the ideal leader.[/B] [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=B.J. Armstrong][B]Where Pippen really made his mark was practice, Armstrong said, where he and Jordan set a standard in which teammates had no choice but to follow.[/B]

“As good as he was in games—and he was terrific—he was that much better in practice,” recalled Armstrong.[B] “He and Michael were the best practice players I’ve ever seen. [/B]I have no idea why they loved it so much or what their reasoning was, but they enjoyed practice. Scottie never complained about practice; he always showed up with that smile on his face. He was a great practice player and the ultimate professional in that regard.”

“If your best players are taking a shortcut, they’re going to have problems holding everyone else accountable and responsible. [B]B[/B][B]oth Michael and Scottie were very accountable and responsible young men to their team, the franchise and themselves. They took their jobs very seriously and that made everyone else hold themselves accountable.”[/B]
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bill Wennington]"He was accountable for his actions on the floor," Wennington said. "Usually, other players get blamed for stars' mistakes. Scottie wasn't like that. He worked hard at practice every day, even if he was banged up."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]
This is why I love reading books about the inner workings of various presidential administrations. There is a lot on the inside that the public does not know, both in terms of substance and internal dynamics among staff.[/QUOTE]

I generally fall into the fallacy that when I look at something bad, I think, well, that's so obvious. But when I look at something good, I know for certain that I can't replicate that success with the same formula

I think Scottie Pippen is severely underrated as a contributor to the Bulls 6 rings.

[QUOTE=Dragic4Life]I think Scottie Pippen is severely underrated as a contributor to the Bulls 6 rings.[/QUOTE]

I actually agree with you for once. :cheers: