How is it even questionable that MJ is GOAT?

[QUOTE=Soundwave]To me Kareem has a reasonable case. The other guys ... there's just too many holes in the case.

Jordan and Kareem have the most complete overall resumes.

But Jordan has such an incredible career, I often couldn't even believe how things would turn out sometimes, you would hope for one thing and something like 5x better would happen. It was just ridiculous.

After 95, I had hoped the Bulls could maybe win one more title, but to win 72 games the very next season and the title on top of another threepeat? Never would've crossed my mind.[/QUOTE]
I hear ya, and I agree. His career was almost too good to be true and just happened to occur at the perfect place and the perfect time for it to all come together the way it did. There's russell who will always have his case and wilt as well. It just depends on what holds the most eeight to each individual.

Edit** hell even magic and bird had their cases before Mj's rise.

[QUOTE=JT123]Someone is projecting hard core. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol[/QUOTE]

^ looks like we found our guy. Go log onto another one of your 4 alts since this one has been figured out.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]I hear ya, and I agree. His career was almost too good to be true and just happened to occur at the perfect place and the perfect time for it to all come together the way it did. There's russell who will always have his case and wilt as well. It just depends on what holds the most eeight to each individual.

Edit** hell even magic and bird had their cases before Mj's rise.[/QUOTE]

Beyond that I think Jordan is the most complete basketball talent ever.

Incredible scorer, but also a very high end defender.

Elite competitive player, probably the greatest clutch player ever to play. Greatest playoff performer. The intangibles are off the chart. I appreciate that stuff more than just the numbers, the numbers are great, sure, but they don't tell the story fully.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]Beyond that I think Jordan is the most complete basketball talent ever.

Incredible scorer, but also a very high end defender.

Elite competitive player, probably the greatest clutch player ever to play. Greatest playoff performer. The intangibles are off the chart.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention going against elite competition. I mean shit, Bron couldn't even beat old man Duncan! :lol

Even though most would pick him first the amount of people who say he's GOAT seems to be a lot more than the people who'd take him 1st in an all time draft over a GOAT center. Anyone else notice this?

[QUOTE=jongib369]Even though most would pick him first the amount of people who say he's GOAT seems to be a lot more than the people who'd take him 1st in an all time draft over a GOAT center. Anyone else notice this?[/QUOTE]

I think it's just basketball logic though you always build around a center. It's a safety blanket complex.

Even for me, outside of Jordan I would take Shaq coming out of college over any other player. Jordan is the exception to this rule, he's like Neo in the Matrix, he bent/changed some of the rules.

Traditionally great teams have a great center, even up until the 1990s a lot of people said it was impossible to win a championship without a very good center and that's why the Bulls were supposedly never going to win (that and a scoring champion apparently never wins the championship).

That said if there's a big game and my life depended on it, gimme a Jordan or Bird 10/10 over a Shaq or Wilt or even Kareem. I want someone with ice in their veins.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]Beyond that I think Jordan is the most complete basketball talent ever.

Incredible scorer, but also a very high end defender.

Elite competitive player, probably the greatest clutch player ever to play. Greatest playoff performer. The intangibles are off the chart.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Preaching to the choir. My whole thing is just don't sleep on these other legends, they were amazing as well. Kareem dominated every level of basketball for basically 25 yrs. Wilt dominated at a level never seen and never to be seen again. His numbers look pencil whipped lol. Bird and Magic were able to play the game at the highest level the way most feel it was meant to be played. Russell the ultimate winner, period. And of course Mj the one I feel succeeded doing it the way they all said couldn't be done. There's a reason this has been a never ending topic.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]Yep. Preaching to the choir. My whole thing is just don't sleep on these other legends, they were amazing as well. Kareem dominated every level of basketball for basically 25 yrs. Wilt dominated at a level never seen and never to be seen again. His nunbers look pencil whipped lol. Bird and Magic were able to play the game at the highest level the way most feel it was meant to be played. Russell the ultimate winner, period. And of course Mj the one I feel succeeded doing it the way they all said couldn't be done. There's a reason this has been a never ending topic.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I've always felt MJ is basically the intersection of the great Wilt Vs. Russell debate ... he has Wilt's flair/offensive dominance but he combines that with Russell's hyper-competitiveness and winning persona.

Of the three "GOATs", in terms of "wanting" to win, I think Jordan, Russell, and Bird are basically on a tier above the rest.

Wilt wanted badly for people to like him and to fit in, Russell didn't give a f*ck about fitting in or apologizing for success.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]I think it's just basketball logic though you always build around a center. It's a safety blanket complex.

Even for me, outside of Jordan I would take Shaq coming out of college over any other player. Jordan is the exception to this rule, he's like Neo in the Matrix, he bent/changed some of the rules.

Traditionally great teams have a great center, even up until the 1990s a lot of people said it was impossible to win a championship without a very good center and that's why the Bulls were supposedly never going to win (that and a scoring champion apparently never wins the championship).

That said if there's a big game and my life depended on it, gimme a Jordan or Bird 10/10 over a Shaq or Wilt or even Kareem. I want someone with ice in their veins.[/QUOTE]
I can understand and respect that...What makes you rank Jordan over GOAT centers? To be specific, the ones I said being Kareem and Wilt and then Shaq which you mentioned

[QUOTE=jongib369]I can understand and respect that...What makes you rank Jordan over GOAT centers? To be specific, the ones I said being Kareem and Wilt and then Shaq which you mentioned[/QUOTE]

Wilt see above.

I think part of it really is mentality. Jordan and Russell were stone cold killers on a basketball court. If you're going to war these are the guys you want as generals. They just have that attitude.

Wilt I'm finding was a pretty fascinating guy, but I don't think he had that "nothing but death is going to beat me today" attitude. For Wilt if he scored his quota of points/rebounds, he basically had done his job and if they won, great, if not, well tough.

That said though I do think a lot of it was bad luck too ... Wilt played on some bad teams.

To be honest a lot of tall people are actually very reserved on a personal level. Wilt and Shaq should be the no.1/2 GOATs, but there's just something missing there.

Kareem/Russell/Wilt have cases.

The rest don't.

Do we need to beat this dead horse?

Because Kareem has a better resume?

Because Russell has twice the rings?

Because Wilt owns almost every record in the record books?



There are plenty of reasons why MJ isn't the undisputed GOAT... and I was raised on Michael Jordan.

If Kareem, Magic and Kobe didnt exist then it is not even questionable to say MJ is GOAT..

[quote=jt123]1-9[/quote]
6/6

Tbh after the stunning revelation that MJ was 1-9, i'm seriously questioning his GOAT status