SF Comparison: 2014 vs. 1990

[QUOTE=Element]

Bigs lacking offense today? How?

[/QUOTE]
It's not that 2014 doesn't have solid offensive bigs, there just AREN'T AS MANY OF THEM AS THERE WERE IN 1990....

Did you read the post where I listed [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10524465&postcount=20][u]all the go-to offensive bigs from 1990 and 2014[/u][/url]?... There are simply less offensively skilled bigs capable of being go-to guys in 2014 than 1990.

[QUOTE]

SFs in 2014 take a huge dump on 1990 SFs

Melo, Bron, KD, George>

[/QUOTE]
First of all, Paul George is done - I only put him on the list out of charity to the lacking 2014 SF's.

And of course we know that Melo, Bron and KD compare to Bird, Pippen, and Dominique - they are all great great players.

But you can't combat All-NBA, Hall of Famers like Chris Mullin, James Worthy, Bernard King, Adrian Dantley and Alex English with role players like Parsons, Hayward, Leonard and Ariza... These guys haven't even been all-stars, let alone All-NBA... :confusedshrug:
.

[QUOTE=dubeta]Wow, sensational thread but [B]LeBron >> Jordan[/B] so your argument is invalid[/QUOTE]

DID JORDAN EVER LOSE IN THE FINLAS TO THE SAME TEAM TWICE :lol

[QUOTE=yungtyrekeevans]dats cuz u setting the match ups. aint nobody consider bron a damn PF.

bron>bird
durant>nique
george>worthy[/QUOTE]

BRON >>>>>> BIRD :wtf:

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]next level cherrypicking:lol[/QUOTE]

U GOT OWNED AGAIN KID :lol
HOW OLD ARE ACTUALLY ????????? 12 YEARS OLD KID :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Element]Bigs lacking offense today? How?

Kevin Love
Blake Griffin
Demarcus Cousins
Brook Lopez
LaMarcus Aldridge
Dirk Nowitzki

and, for you:

Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James


that's great offensive talent right there. What you're trying to get at is today's crop of C's, which everyone knows is wack. But the PF position is looking pretty good with Davis, Love and Blake entering their primes in the near future.

SFs in 2014 take a huge dump on 1990 SFs

Melo, Bron, KD, George>

Sorry, 1990 Bird was not that great. This is bad back Bird we're talking about here. Not to mention this is a version of Pippen prior to his prime, too.[/QUOTE]

THEY CAN'T EVEN SCORES IN THE POST :lol
dun compare loser like lebron,melo,PG24 to a winner Bird plz

Came in here expecting Heavy D (Derrick McKey) not to be listed so props to the OP for having him.

[QUOTE=Paul George 24]THEY CAN'T EVEN SCORES IN THE POST :lol
dun compare loser like lebron,melo,PG24 to a winner Bird plz[/QUOTE]

Houston holding D-Mo on the bench :facepalm

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWAmWxDT5Ws[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBCqHiCw7IA[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eudytPihd9U[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-vBcKuYwWQ[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clqHrGiojIo[/url]

[QUOTE=3ball][B]It's not that 2014 doesn't have solid offensive bigs, there just AREN'T AS MANY OF THEM AS THERE WERE IN 1990....
[/B]
Did you read the post where I listed [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10524465&postcount=20][u]all the go-to offensive bigs from 1990 and 2014[/u][/url]?... There are simply less offensively skilled bigs capable of being go-to guys in 2014 than 1990.

.[/QUOTE]

Ah, so todays bigs are weaker, the SF position is weaker, and the guard position is weaker. Today is just an all around shitty league compared to the juggernaut 90s.

Is that what you are trying to say?

[QUOTE=3ball][B]Here are the bigs from 1990 and 2014 that have go-to offensive capability... They must have true offensive skill where you can run offense through them.... They can't just be guys that finish plays (i.e. Ibaka, Tyson Chandler, etc.)
[/B]

[B][U]Go-To Centers[/U][/B]

[B]2014 Centers[/B] - Demarcus Cousins.. Brook Lopez.. Tim Duncan.. Pau Gasol.. Chris Bosh.. Marc Gasol.. Andrew Bogut.. Anthony Davis (although he mostly just finishes plays right now)

Total: 8


[B]1990 Centers[/B] - Robinson... Ewing... Olajuwon... Moses Malone... Robert Parish... Rik Smits... Vlade Divac.. Brad Daughtery... Sam Bowie... Rony Seikaly.

Total: 10



[B][U]Go-To Power Forwards[/U][/B]

[B]2014 PF's[/B] - Bron.. Melo.. Kevin Love... Nowitski... Aldridge... David Lee... Zach Randolph... Paul Milsap... David West.. Nene Hilario

Total: 10


[B]1990 PF's[/B] - Karl Malone.. Charles Barkely... Tom Chambers... Kevin McHale... Terry Cummings... Larry Nance... Roy Tarpley... Detlef Schrempf... Armen Gilliam... Danny Manning... Otis Thorpe.. Shawn Kemp.

Total: 12


[B]:confusedshrug: ... Clearly, if you take Lebron and Melo out of the PF category and put them in SF, there are only 8 PF's with real offensive games (and of course only 8 Centers).

ditto for the centers, where even a cursory glance shows vast inferiority in 2014 compared to 1990

the lower number of go-to bigs in 2014 is due to the spacing in today's game that reduces the need to score ON defenders as often, which produces a lot of [I][U]non-shot-creating bigs[/U][/I] whose only job is to dunk/finish plays and move their feet well defensively.
.[/B][/QUOTE]

Blake griffin? Ryan Anderson?
You keep making these threads for every position and letting you nostalgia flag fly. How can every position be weaker? When you can't accept that there's any aspect of today's game that is better, how can we accept any of your opinions?

[QUOTE=3ball]It's wouldn't be a fair or objective to go through every player and do a [I]subjective[/I] analysis of how they play.

[B]I have to go with the information bballref puts out.. which IS accurate and based on the position that player started at all year[/B]... I can't cherry-pick here and there or that reduces the integrity of the analysis..

The list in the OP includes all the starters with over a 15.0 PER... I think these are feasible and fair parameters to get a good idea about the quality of SF's in a given era.
.[/QUOTE]
How accurate can it be if they're listing J.R Smith as a SF?

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]Blake griffin? Ryan Anderson?
You keep making these threads for every position and letting you nostalgia flag fly. How can every position be weaker? When you can't accept that there's any aspect of today's game that is better, how can we accept any of your opinions?[/QUOTE]

:applause:

Exactly. It's laughable what OP is insinuating. The game is weaker at EVERY position, sometimes considerably so, according to OP.

Bird was an old f[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]ck by 1990 :hammerhead:

the small forwards now are better

[QUOTE=3ball]The remarkable thing is that on the original lists, 1990 was SO far ahead with their 8 HOF's, that they STILL had a material edge on 2014 even after I included Lebron and Melo as SF's instead of the position they played all year (PF).[/QUOTE]


i'm 99% sure that this is what you look like in real life

[URL=http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/MATW88/media/untitled_zps7a01a6e5.png.html][IMG]http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/MATW88/untitled_zps7a01a6e5.png[/IMG][/URL]

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]

Blake griffin? Ryan Anderson?

You keep making these threads for every position and letting you nostalgia flag fly. How can every position be weaker? When you can't accept that there's any aspect of today's game that is better, how can we accept any of your opinions?

[/QUOTE]
The hypocritical thing is that you guys complain about the SF list because Lebron and Melo are not on it and classified as PF's on bballref, but then complain about the PF list THAT INCLUDES Lebron and Melo.. :banghead:

Blake was a legit omission (corrected below), but even WITH Blake, Lebron and Melo as PF's, the 2014 total of go-to PF's is only 11, and shy of 1990's 12.. With Lebron and Melo as SF's, the 2014 is only 9.

Ryan Anderson is not an omission - he is a play-finisher... he hits threes... he doesn't create shots for himself or create offense for the team on any consistent basis.



[B][SIZE="3"]Revised list of PF's and C's from 1990 & 2014 that have Go-To Capability[/SIZE][/B]

[QUOTE=3ball]

[B][U]Go-To Centers[/U][/B]

[B]2014 Centers[/B] - Demarcus Cousins.. Brook Lopez.. Tim Duncan.. Pau Gasol.. Chris Bosh.. Marc Gasol.. Andrew Bogut.. Anthony Davis (although he mostly just finishes plays right now)

Total: 8


[B]1990 Centers[/B] - Robinson... Ewing... Olajuwon... Moses Malone... Robert Parish... Rik Smits... Vlade Divac.. Brad Daughtery... Sam Bowie... Rony Seikaly.

Total: 10



[B][U]Go-To Power Forwards[/U][/B]

[B]2014 PF's[/B] - LeBron.. Melo.. Kevin Love... [B]Blake Griffin[/B]... Nowitski... Aldridge... David Lee... Zach Randolph... Paul Milsap... David West.. Nene Hilario

Total: 11


[B]1990 PF's[/B] - Karl Malone.. Charles Barkely... Tom Chambers... Kevin McHale... Terry Cummings... Larry Nance... Roy Tarpley... Detlef Schrempf... Armen Gilliam... Danny Manning... Otis Thorpe.. Shawn Kemp.

Total: 12


:confusedshrug: ... Then, if you want to put Lebron and Melo in TWO categories and put them in the SF category too, the SF category still gets beat because it is not deep - can you really compare role players like Ariza, Iguodala, Hayward, Leonard, and Parsons, to HOF's Dantley, English, King and Mullin? (below)

[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR][B][U]2014 SF's[/U][/B][COLOR="White"].................................[/COLOR][B][U]1990 SF's[/U][/B]

Lebron James*...................... Larry Bird*
Kevin Durant*....................... Dominique Wilkins*
Carmelo Anthony*................. James Worthy*
Paul George.......................... Scottie Pippen*
Gordon Hayward................... Chris Mullin*
Kawhi Leonard...................... Bernard King*
Trevor Ariza.......................... Alex English*
Andre Iguodala..................... Adrian Dantley*
Nicholas Batum..................... Derrick McKey
Luol Deng............................ Reggie Lewis
Josh Smith........................... Orlando Woolridge
Chandler Parsons.................. Mark Aguirre
Rudy Gay............................. Jerome Kersey

HOF (*)

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]

You keep making these threads for every position and letting you nostalgia flag fly.

[/QUOTE]
I'm not letting my nostalgia fly - I'm just certain that previous eras had better basketball players.

[QUOTE]

How can every position be weaker?

[/QUOTE]
I never said every position was weaker - I conceded that the 1990 crop of PG's was inferior to 2014's.

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]

When you can't accept that there's any aspect of today's game that is better, how can we accept any of your opinions?

[/QUOTE]
You can accept my opinions, because i did concede the 1990 PG crop was not as good.