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Maybe I was wrong saying he was hated all over Europe. But he was very hated across the whole Yugoslavia for sure. The rivalry against USSR was strong and Sabonis was both dominating and also pretty dirty (most of the players were these days), arguing referees and a lot of stuff I normally hate when a player on the opposing team does it. I think he also got some Shaq treatment from the refs in his Real Madrid years.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]To be honest, Sabonis is one of the most over-rated players on this forum.
I could come up with a LONG list of NBA centers, and in their primes, that I would take over a prime Arvydas.[/QUOTE]
A Sabonis with 0 mobility was guarding prime Shaq better than any center in the league. Shaq was having some truly awful games against Portland in the WCFs. Shaq wasn't doing much in game 7 until Sabonis got in foul trouble.
One game 23 points, one game 17 points.
Held Shaq to 17 points in game 7 of the WCFs in 2000. Sabonis fouled out at the 33:00 mark while Shaq played 47 minutes. Imagine if Sabonis had played more minutes. Sabonis was a problem.
Sabonis might have been the greatest center ever in Europe, but as far as the NBA is concerned, he was just a decent to good big man. A step up from guys like Rik Smits but many tiers below the likes of Shaq and Robinson.
And I watched him play.
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]A Sabonis with 0 mobility was guarding prime Shaq better than any center in the league. Shaq was having some truly awful games against Portland in the WCFs. Shaq wasn't doing much in game 7 until Sabonis got in foul trouble.
One game 23 points, one game 17 points.
Held Shaq to 17 points in game 7 of the WCFs in 2000. Sabonis fouled out at the 33:00 mark while Shaq played 47 minutes. Imagine if Sabonis had played more minutes. Sabonis was a problem.[/QUOTE]
Not sure what your point is here.
Sure Sabonis, and with a TON of help, gave Shaq some problems. Did he ever come close to outplaying him? Hell no.
BTW, in game one, Shaq also played 47 minutes, and Sabonis also played 33 minutes:
Sabonis: 0 points, 0-4 FG/FGA, 1 reb, 2 ast, 0 blks, 4 PFs.
Shaq: 41 points, 14-25 FG/FGA, 11 rebs, 7 ast, 5 blks, 2 PFs.
After that game, Portland pretty much went to a Hack-a-Shaq because they knew they had no way of handling Shaq.
And in their career matchups, Shaq had several 40+ point games against Sabonis, including a high of 46.
I realize that this was an old Sabonis, but we don't have any evidence to suggest that he could have ever outplayed Shaq. The two went at H2H in a total of 21 regular season games, and another 18 playoff games from 1996 to 2003, and Sabonis never even once outscored O'Neal. And the vast majority were one-sided beatdowns, and in virtually every major category.
In their very first meeting in 1996, Shaq poured in 41 points. And in their very first playoff H2H in 1997 O'Neal shelled him with 46 points.
I have absolutely no reason to believe that Sabonis was ever a better center than the many I already mentioned. Possibly more skilled in at least some areas? Sure. But not in enough for me to believe that he was a better center than any of them.
As a sidenote...unless my center is consistently hitting 35-40+% of his 3pt attempts, he is almost useless to me as a three-point shooter (maybe late in a close game.) The average center is going to shoot 50% from the floor, and the better one's are at .550-600+. And standing 25 ft out pretty much eliminates any offensive rebounding.
That is why I think Thon Maker's high school coach needs to have his head examined. He has a seven-footer who is shooting 29% from the arc. Instead of developing his post-up skills, he has the kid dribbling around from 30 feet.
[QUOTE=KungFuJoe]Sabonis might have been the greatest center ever in Europe, but as far as the NBA is concerned, he was just a decent to good big man. A step up from guys like Rik Smits but many tiers below the likes of Shaq and Robinson.
And I watched him play.[/QUOTE]
There you go.
:applause:
That has been my point all along.
As for Walton, and in his prime (short as it was), he was skilled an all-around center as there has ever been.
And again, we have footage, articles, and statistical breakdowns which prove that he was among the best to have ever played the center position.
From the limited footage we have of Sabonis, I don't see Walton having any problems with Arvydas.
Interesting too, that Walton easily outplayed the 7-2 Tommy Burleson in their historic meeting in the '73-74 NCAA semis. And Burleson was a solid player in his college career. He was a 19-13 .520 player, who had a 38 point tournament game. In fact, he was the ACC tournament MVP in both '73 and '74...and keep in mind that he had a teammate by the name of David Thompon. In their H2H in the semi's, Walton outscored Burleson, 29-20; outrebounded Burleson, 18-14; and outshot him from the floor, 13-21 to 9-20.
And before anyone scoffs at Burleson's NBA career, it was quickly cut short by injuries. Still, in his two playoff runs, he averaged 21-10 .542.
In any case, I don't have any reason to believe that Sabonis' height would have been a major problem for Walton.
Sabonis dunking all over Robinson: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik[/url]
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]There you go.
:applause:
That has been my point all along.[/QUOTE]
ignoring the fact that PRIME Sabonis didnt play in the NBA
Honestly, he looks like a bit of a monster; Lazerus clearly downplaying the guy to prop up his idols from the 60s, as per.
[QUOTE=Dresta]Honestly, he looks like a bit of a monster; Lazerus clearly downplaying the guy to prop up his idols from the 60s, as per.[/QUOTE]
And as usual, you provide zero research or knowledge in your response, ... as per.
[QUOTE=Dresta]Honestly, he looks like a bit of a monster; Lazerus clearly downplaying the guy to prop up his idols from the 60s, as per.[/QUOTE]
but why does he have these idols?
He's clearly not very old, since he still carries the child insecurities that force him to make these threads, if only to reinforce his obscure opinions about american centers playing in the NBA in the 60s...
there are a million things he could have chosen to try and find that identiy of his he struggles so much with. Why such a weird one? Why not just run with a favorite player, pokemon and music type like other kids do?
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]And as usual, you provide zero research or knowledge in your response, ... as per.[/QUOTE]
I just watched the video dipshit. Why would i provide research or knowledge when i neither know or care about Sabonis? All i know is that you're continuously plugging an agenda, and using selective statistics and correlations to do so - all your use of statistics is biased in favour of that agenda. Your bias is so instilled that you don't even notice it despite it being so blatantly obvious to everyone else on this site.
You are a tiresome bore who has some serious obsession with the 1960s, and can't make a single post not somehow marred by this idiotic nostalgia.
[QUOTE=Dresta]I just watched the video dipshit. Why would i provide research or knowledge when i neither know or care about Sabonis? All i know is that you're continuously plugging an agenda, and using selective statistics and correlations to do so - all your use of statistics is biased in favour of that agenda. Your bias is so instilled that you don't even notice it despite it being so blatantly obvious to everyone else on this site.
You are a tiresome bore who has some serious obsession with the 1960s, and can't make a single post not somehow marred by this idiotic nostalgia.[/QUOTE]
Coming from you this means nothing to me. You are a worthless POS poster who provides nothing to this forum.
[QUOTE=SpanishACB]but why does he have these idols?
He's clearly not very old, since he still carries the child insecurities that force him to make these threads, if only to reinforce his obscure opinions about american centers playing in the NBA in the 60s...
there are a million things he could have chosen to try and find that identiy of his he struggles so much with. Why such a weird one? Why not just run with a favorite player, pokemon and music type like other kids do?[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't know whether he's a kid with too much time on his hands or an old man who forgot to get himself a life of his own; i hope it's not the latter as that'd just be hella sad.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]And as usual, you provide zero research or knowledge in your response, ... as per.[/QUOTE]
Why not just admit your bias? Are you trying to deny that you're not biased towards the players from that era?