Prime MJ was the greatest perimeter defender of all time

What separates MJ from other great defenders is, MJ also had to carry a huge offensive load that other top defenders didn't come close to.

And while i'm sure teams tried to tire out other wing defenders as they played defense, in an attempt to stop MJ they tried very hard to punish him as a defender as well. They ran his man throuh multiple hard screens, they grabbed him, elbowed him andwere more physical on MJ when he played defense.

But if we want to compare MJ to other star players and not simply defensive specialists, MJ was the most consistent.

Unlike most stars that save their energy for offense, he saved energy on offense FOR defense.

One of the most important defensive aspects is consistency, and that's where MJ kills the other stars. Any and every player is capable of playing good defense, but how many possessions can they do it for?

MJ is a very strong contender to having the GOAT perimeter defender based on all metrics.

GOAT gonna GOAT

1992 Bulls with Jordan: 4th in DRTG, -3.7 relative to league average
1993 Bulls with Jordan: 7th in DRTG, -1.9 relative to league average
1994 Bulls after replacing Jordan with the legendary Pete Myers: 6th in DRTG, -3.6 relative to league average

1995 Bulls pre-Jordan: 105.0 DRTG, -3.3 relative to league average
1995 Bulls after Jordan returned: 105.3 DRTG, -3.0 relative to league average


Guy leaves and his team gets better defensively.

He comes back and they get worse.

Truly the type of impact you'd expect from the GOAT perimeter defender.

Boy he was a real difference maker on the defensive side of the ball.

:bowdown:

[QUOTE=Jacks3]1992 Bulls with Jordan: 4th in DRTG, -3.7 relative to league average
1993 Bulls with Jordan: 7th in DRTG, -1.9 relative to league average
1994 Bulls after replacing Jordan with the legendary Pete Myers: 6th in DRTG, -3.6 relative to league average

1995 Bulls pre-Jordan: 105.0 DRTG, -3.3 relative to league average
1995 Bulls after Jordan returned: 105.3 DRTG, -3.0 relative to league average


Guy leaves and his team gets better defensively.

He comes back and they get worse.

Truly the type of impact you'd expect from the GOAT perimeter defender.

Boy he was a real difference maker on the defensive side of the ball.

:bowdown:[/QUOTE]
i've always said jordan is one of the greatest scorers, but that his defense was terribly overrated. like, pippen was the guy who led the bulls in net impact on that end from 1991-98.

btw, where do you rate pippen's defense all-time?

[B]That would be Pippen. Jordan is clearly one of the best perimeter defenders at the 2 spot but Pippen could guard 1-4 and had more defensive versatility. Pippen usually was the one guarding the other teams best offensive player. Jordan was physically and skill wise at a total advantage over the rest of the players at the 2 spot. Not so for Pippen.[/B]

[QUOTE=Jacks3]

1994 Bulls after replacing Jordan with the legendary Pete Myers: 6th in DRTG, -3.6 relative to league average
1995 Bulls pre-Jordan: 105.0 DRTG, -3.3 relative to league average

1995 Bulls after Jordan returned: 105.3 DRTG, -3.0 relative to league average

[/QUOTE]
The game isn't that simple.. You're forgetting how a team's offensive capability and output affects their defense.

It's amazing that the Bulls' offense went from 16th in the league WITHOUT Jordan, to #1 WITH Jordan, while essentially maintaining their same defensive rating and capability, as your own stats demonstrate.

Specifically, the Bulls' offense went from 106 ORtg in 1994 (16th in the league, and 15,874th all time) to 115.2 in 1996 (#1 in league, #1 all time), DESPITE the offense being bogged down by Rodman's 3 PPG.

Btw, the Bulls defense in 1993 regular season was understandably slightly down, because they rested a ton in the regular season so they could 3-peat, just like the Heat tried to do in 2014.
.

[QUOTE=3ball]Not sure exactly what one you are talking about - it might be one of the plays in these two three-minute clips that show defensive highlights in succession.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCbp-e7e100&t=33m08s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gCMWuCdsGQ&t=15m46s[/url]


btw, mj was probably the best blocker of center's shots... he blocked shaq, hakeem, robinson, ewing SOOOO many times.. that's why he's one of the best shot-blocking wing players ever - the only player to ever record 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season.. he averaged 1.5 and 1.6 blocks in 87' and 88'.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't in there. I think it was later on in his career. If I remember correctly, he was fighting over a screen, fake like he was going one way, and while he was behind one of the players he went the other way with his arms out, somehow knowing that his opponent was going to pass the ball. I really can't explain it.

[QUOTE=bizil]U could certainly argue MJ as the GOAT perimeter defender. But for me, the most [B]UNIQUE perimeter defenders are the ones like Pippen, Rodman, Bobby Jones, Kirilenko, and Lebron. Those are the guys that could defend damn near any position on the court.[/B] So even though MJ was obviously a lockdown defender and arguably the best, I might lean to Pippen on this one. The versatility aspects of defending swing it Pip's way.[/QUOTE]
And what does that have to do with being a great [I]perimeter[/I] defender?

Versatile defender, sure, but you can't separate perimeter and post defense and then say 'this guys is a more impressive perimeter defender because he's also a great post defender' - that is irrelevant to the discussion.

[IMG]https://i.imgflip.com/kgiw3.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://gamedayr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/tony-allen-karaoke-.jpg[/IMG]

3ball, im curious... do you think anybody was better than Jordan at anything?

[QUOTE=pauk]3ball, im curious... do you think anybody was better than Jordan at anything?[/QUOTE]
I mean, its not like this is far fetched or something. He has just as good a case for goat perimeter defender as anybody.

[QUOTE=Jacks3]1992 Bulls with Jordan: 4th in DRTG, -3.7 relative to league average
1993 Bulls with Jordan: 7th in DRTG, -1.9 relative to league average
1994 Bulls after replacing Jordan with the legendary Pete Myers: 6th in DRTG, -3.6 relative to league average

1995 Bulls pre-Jordan: 105.0 DRTG, -3.3 relative to league average
1995 Bulls after Jordan returned: 105.3 DRTG, -3.0 relative to league average


Guy leaves and his team gets better defensively.

He comes back and they get worse.

Truly the type of impact you'd expect from the GOAT perimeter defender.

Boy he was a real difference maker on the defensive side of the ball.

:bowdown:[/QUOTE]


[IMG]http://www.gifbin.com/bin/012012/1329414634_dog_slap.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=pauk]3ball, im curious... do you think anybody was better than Jordan at anything?[/QUOTE]
Tony Gwynn is better at hitting a curve ball I suppose.


Uhhhh....... That's all I got.:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Jacks3]1992 Bulls with Jordan: 4th in DRTG, -3.7 relative to league average
1993 Bulls with Jordan: 7th in DRTG, -1.9 relative to league average
1994 Bulls after replacing Jordan with the legendary Pete Myers: 6th in DRTG, -3.6 relative to league average

1995 Bulls pre-Jordan: 105.0 DRTG, -3.3 relative to league average
1995 Bulls after Jordan returned: 105.3 DRTG, -3.0 relative to league average


Guy leaves and his team gets better defensively.

He comes back and they get worse.

Truly the type of impact you'd expect from the GOAT perimeter defender.

Boy he was a real difference maker on the defensive side of the ball.

:bowdown:[/QUOTE]
The Bulls best defensive rating out of all the chips came when Pollen missed half the season.

[QUOTE=pauk]3ball, im curious... do you think anybody was better than Jordan at anything?[/QUOTE]

Isaac Newton may be a slightly better scientist but that's debatable because he's from a weak era of scientists. Newton discovered gravity but Jordan defies it. 23>9.81