Distance traveled per 48 minutes - Lebron's is a league-bottom 3.0 miles

[QUOTE=KellhitEmup15]Lol at this fake ass scientist. Thinking he's smart.[/QUOTE]


The guy is a stupid gimmick account by a veteran poster in this forum.

Allthough I am a huge LeBron fan I got to admit that we took another L in here.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]Nothing to do with greatness, everything to do with being way over the top with the hyperbole.

You can't present arguments as educated when you half ass the education part on your end. It's hilarious because dude presents his shit as grand discoveries that get ripped apart by the end of the 1st page usually. If he actually took more time to solidify these "findings" they'd endure longer. But he's just a repeat troll, Banned from every other forum I've seen him on. About. The. Same. Shit.[/QUOTE]

Initially his earlier posts were well educated and accepted as irrefutable fact. Then once his work was done and things slowed down, Jeff had him ante up his game and so he started posting all those vids about Jordan and defenses that he went up against. It's still hilarious how he finds new and innovative ways to compare Jordan to whoever. I look forward to the next new criteria that he uses as a comparison.

[QUOTE=Straight_Ballin]Initially his earlier posts were well educated and accepted as irrefutable fact. Then once his work was done and things slowed down, Jeff had him ante up his game and so he started posting all those vids about Jordan and defenses that he went up against. It's still hilarious how he finds new and innovative ways to compare Jordan to whoever. I look forward to the next new criteria that he uses as a comparison.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Straight_Ballin]He moves around the court less than a non dominate ball player so essentially he is holding onto the ball way more than he should. Same with CP3. It's wasted time of possession at the expense of the team. He is causing his team to work harder and take more steps per game than they should in order to get the win.[/QUOTE]
That would be true if Kawhi, Green, and TP are among the league leaders in distance travelled per game. Who's holding onto the ball on the Spurs and making them run?

Also, Cleveland was the 3rd best offense last seasons and the Clips were #1. They must be doing something right...:confused shrug:

...

[QUOTE=Straight_Ballin]


Initially his earlier posts were well educated and accepted as irrefutable fact. Then once his work was done and things slowed down, Jeff had him ante up his game and [B][SIZE="3"]so he started posting all those vids about Jordan and defenses that he went up against[/SIZE][/B]. It's still hilarious how he finds new and innovative ways to compare Jordan to whoever. I look forward to the next new criteria that he uses as a comparison.


[/QUOTE]

So wait, you think this defense:


[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/uAh_p8.gif[/IMG]




Is tougher than this defense below?... :wtf:


[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif[/IMG]


[I]The paint and entire strongside is wide open for Lebron, but completely packed for Jordan.. This was [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11709076&postcount=19]normal[/url]. [/I]

Here's the reality - the need for today's defenses to guard the weakside makes their strongside defense worse and more porous than previous eras (who didn't have to guard the weakside, so all 10 guys were bunched up on the strongside and help defenders always in much closer proximity than today's spaced out defenses).

[QUOTE=3ball]So wait, you think I'm bullshitting about the defense?[/QUOTE]

No, I agree with you I'm just saying that you posted those videos so many times (what else can you really do to educate these kids?) that I look forward to the new material and new ways that you continue to educate about Jordan's dominance. The fact that you have to spend ANY time educating those about Jordan's greatness over Lebron and Kobe is sad because these kids don't have fathers to teach them right from wrong.

The whole "well Lebron is the best because I never saw Kobe play, or Kobe is best because I never saw Jordan play" is just complete nonsense.

To those posters, no one cares if you never saw Jordan play live. That doesn't mean that he's not the GOAT.

[QUOTE=Straight_Ballin]No, I agree with you I'm just saying that you posted those videos so many times (what else can you really do to educate these kids?) that I look forward to the new material and new ways that you continue to educate about Jordan's dominance. The fact that you have to spend ANY time educating those about Jordan's greatness over Lebron and Kobe is sad because these kids don't have fathers to teach them right from wrong.

The whole "well Lebron is the best because I never saw Kobe play, or Kobe is best because I never saw Jordan play" is just complete nonsense.

To those posters, no one cares if you never saw Jordan play live. That doesn't mean that he's not the GOAT.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11709095&postcount=49[/url]

[QUOTE=3ball]0.5 miles is a ton - it's 20% more than Lebron every game..

And it isn't just Curry - it's ALL off-ball players - Korver, Danny Green, Kawhi, etc.. Off-ball players travel about 20% further in games than ball-dominators like Lebron, Harden, CP3, etc.

So the notion that Lebron expended so much energy "running the show" for Cleveland is proven wrong by the stats... The stats also prove that even though ball-dominators travel the least distances in games, they still have the highest time of possession, which proves they stand around a lot.[/QUOTE]

have you ever played basketball?

handling the ball takes up energy, so pgs that travel 3 miles per game, but spend a lot of that time protecting the ball, and driving to the basket are gonna expend a lot more energy than off-ball guys that dont have to expend energy protecting the ball.

they might be travelling more distance, but its still a lot less work.

anyone who has played basketball knows this from experience.

handling the ball against pressure is one of the more exhausting parts of basketball.

[QUOTE=3ball]Again, Kawhi does all the things you say Lebron does, AND he runs an extra 1/2 mile per game.

And as you can see from the gifs above, scoring off-ball uses more energy than just running a longer distance. [/QUOTE]

kawhi does them, but not with nearly as heavy a workload, his usage rate is far lower than lebron's, so he can afford to pace himself more, and work harder on defense (which he is rightly commended for)

and two gifs dont prove anything. 90% off-ball scores are just spot up jumpers, or cuts to the hoop, and dont take that much effort

[QUOTE]The stat measures PER 48 MINUTES - so playing time has nothing to do with it.. Stop being biased and turning a blind eye to the facts.[/QUOTE]
you ought to think before you post.

i could play in an nba game, log 5 mins, run half a mile, and per 48 mins i'd have covered 4.8 miles, leading the league by far. and by your logic, I would be doing more work than lebron/westbrook/etc.

those heavy usage, high minutes players have to pace themselves far more than low usage, low minute players have to.

[QUOTE=chips93]have you ever played basketball?

handling the ball takes up energy, so pgs that travel 3 miles per game, but spend a lot of that time protecting the ball, and driving to the basket are gonna expend a lot more energy than off-ball guys that dont have to expend energy protecting the ball.

they might be travelling more distance, but its still a lot less work.

anyone who has played basketball knows this from experience.

handling the ball against pressure is one of the more exhausting parts of basketball.[/QUOTE]
Ball-handling isn't any more taxing than running off screens or battling for position in the paint or on the post.. And when you're handling the ball, your adrenaline is up, so you don't even notice any fatigue until after.

The rest of the time (the time when you're not making a move or driving), you're just holding the ball and resting, while off-ball players are still moving and/or battling for position in paint or on post.. It's a statistical fact that ball-dominators have the highest [i]time of possession[/i] in addition to traveling the shortest distances - this proves they are standing around a lot and waiting/holding the ball.

But again - the main point is that off-ball players run almost 20% further every game - about a half a mile further - this offsets any additional muscle burn you perceive occurs to these guys from dribbling..

Most importantly, ball-dominance doesn't require the same level of skill sophistication - ball-domination is the aau/playground, grade-school-level approach to offense.. It's made for guys to rack up stats, whether it's the playground or the NBA - it's much more impressive to get those same or better stats within an optimal offense - equal-opportunity offense, which ball-dominance prevents.

How come LeBron's teams are always near the league lead in offensive efficiency then?

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]

How come LeBron's teams are always near the league lead in offensive efficiency then?

[/quote]
So all teams that are "[I]near the league lead in offensive efficiency[/I]" like you stated above, should be given chamionship rings?.. :oldlol:

The issue is that Lebron's ball-dominance doesn't allow his teams to run equal-opportunity offenses.. Since his ball-dominance prevents equal-opportunity, opponents can overcome lesser talent by playing equal opportunity themselves - essentially, since his ball-dominance doesn't allow the best brand of basketball, equal or less-talented teams can pull upsets by playing a [I]better[/I] brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014).

Otoh, MJ's highly-assisted, off-ball game increased the assist capacity of the team and allowed the team to employ the best brand of basketball (equal-opportunity) - by playing the best brand of basketball possible, MJ's teams weren't susceptible to less talented opponents pulling upsets by playing a [I]better[/I] brand of basketball.. MJ's teams never got beat by equal or less talented teams.. Ever.

[I]Furthermore, it takes more ability to achieve all-time stats within an equal-opportunity, winning framework, than the grade school-level, clearout/playground style that ball-dominators like Lebron need to put up numbers. [/I]

3ball toe taggin em.

[QUOTE=chips93]have you ever played basketball?

handling the ball takes up energy, so pgs that travel 3 miles per game, but spend a lot of that time protecting the ball, and driving to the basket are gonna expend a lot more energy than off-ball guys that dont have to expend energy protecting the ball.

they might be travelling more distance, but its still a lot less work.

anyone who has played basketball knows this from experience.

handling the ball against pressure is one of the more exhausting parts of basketball.[/QUOTE]

Yup. Sort of a layman argument by OP. Guys who run through picks cover a lot more distance with much less resistance. A guy like JJ Redick runs about as much as anyone and on one possession, he can run a few hundred feet, running through picks. But he's seldom planting hard and exploding, which is extremely taxing. Guys like him run at slight angles through picks, which is much less taxing. Sure, he has to change directions sometimes but not constantly. The ball handler can move 50 feet and exert more energy because he has to worry about the defender, doubles and the contact when driving to the basket and also the contact through picks. Much easier and less taxing to move without the ball. This isn't even a debate.

[QUOTE=3ball]So all teams that are "[I]near the league lead in offensive efficiency[/I]" like you stated above, should be given chamionship rings?.. :oldlol:

The issue is that Lebron's ball-dominance doesn't allow his teams to run equal-opportunity offenses.. Since his ball-dominance prevents equal-opportunity, opponents can overcome lesser talent by playing equal opportunity themselves - essentially, since his ball-dominance doesn't allow the best brand of basketball, equal or less-talented teams can pull upsets by playing a [I]better[/I] brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014).

Otoh, MJ's highly-assisted, off-ball game increased the assist capacity of the team and allowed the team to employ the best brand of basketball (equal-opportunity) - by playing the best brand of basketball possible, MJ's teams weren't susceptible to less talented opponents pulling upsets by playing a [I]better[/I] brand of basketball.. MJ's teams never got beat by equal or less talented teams.. Ever.

[I]Furthermore, it takes more ability to achieve all-time stats within an equal-opportunity, winning framework, than the grade school-level, clearout/playground style that ball-dominators like Lebron need to put up numbers. [/I][/QUOTE]

Makes me wonder if you even watched Bron prior to the 2015 finals. For most of his career, he played more like Magic than a ball dominator. He almost always tried to make the right basketball play and was seen as too unselfish. Yes, he ran isos when needed but that wasn't his fortay. He enjoyed playing unselfish basketball.

His numbers from 2008-2013 (6 years) is matched by only 1 other perimeter player and that's MJ. 6 straight seasons leading in PER with a whooping 30.2 and giving you 28.2 ppg on only 19.6 fga while shooting .511%.

I am an MJ fan like you but when you continue to unfairly bash Bron, I have to call you for it.