Jordan also had a team that could win 55 games without him (the team wasn't even fully healthy). FACT
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Jordan also had a team that could win 55 games without him (the team wasn't even fully healthy). FACT
[QUOTE=sportjames23]Never lost with HCA, undefeated in the NBA Finals, never lost in the Olympics, undefeated in championship games/series (NCAA, Olympics, NBA Finals).
GOAT. Straight up GOAT.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
Never made the second round without Pippen :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
itt, jordan fans crediting their guy with team accolades. :lol
reminds me of a thread months back, where jordan fans huff and puffed after i reminded them having "the most fmvps" was another trite fact (bill russell, had the award existed, would've had more).
jordan fans are literally the kings of bullshit, inconsequential facts.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]An off-game is 7-26 or 6-27
Only registering 8FGA in the biggest playoff game of your career sounds more like he quit or gave up before the game even started.
So in short, the Bulls DID really have a chance. Could have went up 3-2 in the series with game 6 in Chicago, but MJ had other plans.[/QUOTE]
Only registering 11 FGA in the biggest playoff game of your career sounds more like he quit or gave up before the game started.
So in short, the Heat DID really have a chance. Could have went up 3-1 in the series with games 6 & 7 in Miami, but LeBron had other plans.
Bottomline, if you believe that about Jordan, same exact thing applies to LeBron for Game 4 of the 2011 Finals. Yet you blame Wade for that one. Makes you a huge hypocrite. If Jordan quit, then LeBron did too
[QUOTE=GrapeApe][B]I don't think there's any debate that Jordan wasn't fully himself in 1995. You cannot have a 2 year absence and return to top form in 17 games. Not at the highest level of basketball.[/B] More importantly, it's impossible to establish (or reestablish) championship level chemistry in that short a time frame. He was certainly capable of a dominant single game performance, he could do that on talent alone, but it takes time to fine-tune all the nuances of the game.[/QUOTE]
So if he didn't choose to quit those 2yrs, he would have scored 91 instead of 55 that night?
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]itt, jordan fans crediting their guy with team accolades. :lol
reminds me of a thread months back, where jordan fans huff and puffed after i reminded them having "the most fmvps" was another trite fact (bill russell, had the award existed, would've had more).
jordan fans are literally the kings of bullshit, inconsequential facts.[/QUOTE]
Wait, so team accolades are no longer part of a player's legacy? You're saying that being the best player on a championship team is irrelevant?
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]itt, jordan fans crediting their guy with team accolades. :lol
reminds me of a thread months back, where jordan fans huff and puffed after i reminded them having "the most fmvps" was another trite fact (bill russell, had the award existed, would've had more).
[B]jordan fans are literally the kings of bullshit, inconsequential facts.[/B][/QUOTE]
Pretty much.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]So if he didn't choose to quit those 2yrs, he would have scored 91 instead of 55 that night?[/QUOTE]
So you completely ignore everthing else I said in that post?
What the hell? :oldlol:
[QUOTE=GrapeApe]Wait, so team accolades are no longer part of a player's legacy? You're saying that being the best player on a championship team is irrelevant?[/QUOTE]
not when you credit jordan to the extent his fans have.
most of them think scottie pippen was a mediocre all star, and could've easily been replaced by some one-dimensional scorer.
they don't really value rebounding, playmaking, defense and other aspects that make an otherwise adequate scorer, ATG.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Only registering 11 FGA in the biggest playoff game of your career sounds more like he quit or gave up before the game started.
So in short, the Heat DID really have a chance. Could have went up 3-1 in the series with games 6 & 7 in Miami, but LeBron had other plans.
Bottomline, if you believe that about Jordan, same exact thing applies to LeBron for Game 4 of the 2011 Finals. Yet you blame Wade for that one. Makes you a huge hypocrite. If Jordan quit, then LeBron did too[/QUOTE]
You're forgetting the part where MJ was the clear cut captain/ leader, FG attempter (no, not a word) ball handler/scoring machine for the Bulls in 89
Once the 2011 Finals started we were shown it was still Wade's team in which he let the media and fans know by handing the reigns off to LeBron later that summer.
OP said MJ had no real chance against Detroit and other stacked teams. I showed him where MJ did and asked what happened.
I never said LeBron had no real chance against Dallas.
No hypocrite here, chico
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]:facepalm I'm a Laker fan. I saw that game like 10 times. Gasol was the MVP of game 7 along with Artest.[/QUOTE]
give him credit, the little guy was trying his best drum up the Kobe hate.. :oldlol: :oldlol:
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]1984-85 - Bulls 38-44 - Lost to Milwaukee (59-23)
1985-86 - Bulls 30-52 - Lost to Celtics (67-15) - [B]Champs[/B]
1986-87 - Bulls 40-42 - Lost to Celtics (59-23) - Lost Finals
1987-88 - Bulls 50-32 - Lost to Pistons (54-28) - Lost Finals
1988-89 - Bulls 47-35 - Lost to Pistons (63-19) - [B]Champs[/B]
1989-90 - Bulls 55-27 - Lost to Pistons (59-23) - [B]Champs[/B]
MJs numbers from this period (first 6 seasons):
Reg season: [B]32.8 PPG, 29.9 PER, 6.3 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.8 spg[/B]
Playoffs: [B]35.8 PPG, 29.7 PER, 6.9 rpg, 6.7 apg, 2.5 spg[/B]
We all know what he did starting the 1990-91 season. But this gives you a perspective on what type of help MJ had and what type of teams he had to go up against. All-time great, legendary teams. He really had no chance. It wasn't until Pippen and Grant matured along with PJ coming on board as coach when MJ had enough firepower to start beating elite teams. But look at his individual numbers during this time, just dominant from the get go. This is what the GOAT does.
Drop the mic.[/QUOTE]
If we're to make excuses that he only lost to All-time great legendary teams, we should also note that he never faced All-time great legendary teams once he started winning.
[QUOTE=livinglegend]Jordan also had a team that could win 55 games without him (the team wasn't even fully healthy). FACT[/QUOTE]
They also were 34-31 without him the next year before he came back
Did you know that son?
Okay...so that would just mean that he did worse than we mighta expected on the road. :confusedshrug:
He's great and he is the GOAT, but weird stats like this are irrelevant. Just as you might think its good that he took care of business when he had HCA, someone else can say that this is not a good thing because it means he was rattled when he didn't have HCA.
[QUOTE=ballinhun8]They also were 34-31 without him the next year before he came back
Did you know that son?[/QUOTE]
They also had lost GRANT, too. Based on their 55-27 record in '94 WITH Grant, they likely would have gone at least 12-5 in those same games that they went 13-4 with Jordan. And the reality was, that 55-27 record was deceptive, as well. Pippen and Grant missed a combined 22 games in that '94 season. Had those two been relatively healthy all season, and they probably would have won 60+ games. Which would have been huge. Why? Because they lost to the 56-26 Knicks in a close seven game series...BUT, they went 3-0 at home. Had they had HCA, and they likely would have won that series. And given the fact that they owned Indiana during the regular season, they probably would have dispatched the Pacers in the ECF's. And since we know that the Knicks gave the 58-24 Rockets all they could handle in the Finals (losing a close game seven, and outscoring Houston in that series), they might very well have won a title without Jordan.
Did you know that son?
So, here was Pippen basically carrying a team without BOTH MJ and Grant, to a 34-31 record.
Find me a season in which Jordan had a winning record without Pippen and Grant, or Pippen and Rodman.