Pippen was a worse 2nd option than...

[QUOTE=3ball]Every 2nd option I listed in the OP is better than 1st three-peat Pippen..

The only guys you'll disagree with are Drexler, Stockton and Gasol.

[I]So basically, Pippen was decent, but a worse 2nd option than a TON of guys - THAT'S the point of the thread.
[/I]


2nd three-peat Pippen was aids and doesn't deserve that much "due"... His stats during 1996-1998 playoffs were 17/7/5 on 40.8%.

THAT'S A THREE-YEAR PERIOD OF AIDS.... This includes 15 ppg on 34% in 1996 Finals.... and 15 ppg on 41% in 1998 Finals (8 and 6 points in final two games).

[I]There were a lot of THIRD options better than 2nd three-peat Pippen.. See the [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393882]Horace Grant thread[/url] for some of those...

Infact, there's FOURTH options that were better - see the [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393894]BJ Armstrong thread[/url] for some of those.
[/I][/QUOTE]

[I]On the flipside, you have your MJ haters who blindly scream 1-9 and 57 vs 55 wins to discredit MJ. The only MJ fan I see who goes out of his way to discredit Pip is 3ball. The rest of the MJ/Bulls fans I feel respect what Pippen brought to the table, even while acknowledging MJ as the catalyst for those squads. It is possible to give the two of them their just due.[/I]

[QUOTE=livinglegend]

That's an assumption made by you

[/QUOTE]
The Bulls were exposed in the playoffs - 3-peat chemistry could only get them to the 2nd Round - they simply lacked talent.

Furthermore, the 94' Bulls weren't going to rebound from their 2nd Round defeat and do better the next year - they were a 2nd Round team PERMANENTLY without Jordan, after being a 3-peat dynasty with him.

Now if we were running an experiment to see if MJ's impact was truly 3-peat to 2nd Round, we would have him come back and see if he could 3-peat again.... VIOLA!!!!... Done and done.. Confirmed 2nd Round to 3-peat impact.

please 3ball, stop posting.
As much as i like MJ who is the GOAT, you have the same impact on this boat that all those kobe sluts and lebrun bitches.

Do you understand ? of course not :oldlol:

[QUOTE=3ball].
[I]All these players were better 2nd options in general - but specific years have been provided for easier analysis:[/I]


Shaq (2005 and 2006)
Magic (1979)
Kareem (nearly every year)
McHale (nearly every year)
Kobe (every year except 2000)
Dr. J (1983)
Duncan (since 2008)
Durant or Westbrook (every year)
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12000670&postcount=12]Shawn Kemp[/url] (1996 - look it up - RS, PO and Finals - not close at all)
Lebron (2011)
Wade (2012)
Penny (1995 and 1996)
Stockton (every year)
David Robinson (1998)
Drexler (1995)
Gasol (2009 and 2010)


[I]Don't make me put Pip's numbers side-by-side with these bosses[/I]
.[/QUOTE]

Once again, in regard to 3ball's posts...

[IMG]https://media4.giphy.com/media/SEp6Zq6ZkzUNW/200.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Pippen is so overrated. He is a hustling defender type of guy that was gifted in being a cog in the triangle next to MJ.[/QUOTE]

Pippen was the greatest and most versatile man defender to ever play pro basketball. He was also an incredible team defender. He could man up and lock down at the 1-3 positions on defense, and he could shut down a lot of power forwards also. Today, he would be shutting down guys from Chris Paul to Kevin Durant.

He was a great ball handler and play maker also. In the open court on the break, he was as scary as any player in NBA history, except maybe LeBron.

He was a vastly superior player to guys like Antetokounmpo or Batum today. I mean by leaps and bounds he was country miles better than guys like that.

[B]Pippen is easily one of the most UNDERRATED players ever at ISH.[/B]

People here shit on MJ too now?? Wtf? :biggums: What's this 1-9 bullshit? He's the greatest player of all time :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Inferno]People here shit on MJ too now?? Wtf? :biggums: What's this 1-9 bullshit? He's the greatest player of all time :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

It's just to keep in perspective that even the almighty Jordan needed great teammates/coaching to win too

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]

even the almighty [B]Jordan needed great teammates/coaching to win too
[/B]
[/QUOTE]
He needed a 2nd option that was worse than the 2nd options of other all-time greats.. Don't try to tell me Pippen was a better 2nd option than Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, McHale, Lebron in 2011 (or Wade), and on and on and on and on and on.

He needed a 3rd option (Horace Grant) that was worse than half the league's 3rd options - seriously - there's far too many superior 3rd options to even begin naming them.

He needed a worse 4th option (BJ Armstrong) than Magic's Byron Scott/Cooper/AC Green... Bird's Dennis Johnson... Lebron's Ray Allen... Kobe's Bynum/Ron Artest... Duncan's Kawhi or Manu... and on and on and on and on and on.... It's not even CLOSE

No one said MJ went 1 on 5 - but his peers simply had better supporting casts.. That's why MJ needed to score 10 ppg more than his 2nd option for every playoff series in his career, and [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392376]50%[/url] of his team's 4th quarter points in playoffs and Finals (while he was on the floor)... No other #1 option had to do anywhere NEAR this.


[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]

It's just to keep in perspective that even the almighty Jordan needed great teammates/coaching to win too

[/QUOTE]
Nah it's pure bullshit that no one intelligent even considers..

1-9 in the playoffs with no all-stars

>

lebron missing the playoffs twice with one of the best bigs in the conference (a 2-time all-star)

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]

First 3peat Pippen was easily better than

'87-'89 Kareem
'81-'84 McHale
'11-'12 & '14-'15 Duncan

And you could argue first 3peat Pippen was either better than, or just as good as

'06 Shaq
'00 Kobe
'83 Dr. J
'13 Duncan
'12 Wade
'95 Drexler
'09-'10 Gasol
Stockton

[/QUOTE]

[B]Awesome - so based on your list above, here are the guys you agree are better 2nd options than 1st three-peat Pippen:[/B]


Shaq (2005)
Magic (1979)
Kareem (most years)
McHale (nearly every year)
Kobe (nearly every year)
Duncan (2008-2012)
Durant or Westbrook (every year)
Lebron (2011)
Penny (1995 and 1996)
Stockton (every year)
David Robinson or Duncan (1998)
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12000670&postcount=12]Shawn Kemp[/url] (1996 for sure, and likely other years if we look)



Of course the guys listed above are the ones you think are better than FIRST 3-peat Pippen.. The SECOND 3-peat Pippen was aids.. His stats during 1996-1998 playoffs were 17/7/5 on 40.8%.

THAT'S A THREE-YEAR PERIOD OF AIDS.... This includes 15 ppg on 34% in 1996 Finals.... and 15 ppg on 41% in 1998 Finals (8 and 6 points in final two games).

There were a lot of THIRD options better than 2nd three-peat Pippen.. See the [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393882]Horace Grant thread[/url] for some of those...

Infact, there's FOURTH options that were better - see the [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393894]BJ Armstrong thread[/url] for some of those.

Pippen in 96...5th in MVP voting, 2nd in DPOY voting, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defensive team (and the only unanimous pick by the coaches) = aids. :yaohappy:

And before you bring up his finals stats...he was injured. He was at 75% capacity throughout the playoffs with his ankle, knee, and wrist problems, but still managed to be the most dominant defensive player in the league in that 96 playoffs.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]

Pippen in 96...5th in MVP voting, 2nd in DPOY voting, 1st team all nba, 1st team all defensive team (and the only unanimous pick by the coaches) = aids.

[/QUOTE]

[B]Pippen in 1996 Playoffs[/B]: [B][COLOR="Red"]16.9 ppg on 39.0% fg[/COLOR][/B]
[B]Pippen in 1996 [COLOR="White"].[/COLOR]Finals:[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B][COLOR="Red"]15.1 ppg on 34.1% fg[/COLOR][/B]


[I][COLOR="Navy"]Yup... That's AIDS... WOAT actually[/COLOR][/I]... There's never been a 2nd option that horrific on a championship team.

And it wasn't just 1996... Pippen averaged 17/7/5 on 40.8% for the ENTIRE 2nd three-peat (1996-1998 playoffs) - that's the worst 2nd option performance for any winning championship team, ever.

And why were the Bulls still able to win?... It's because Jordan scored a higher proportion of his team's points than anyone ever has, including [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392376]50%[/url] of his team's 4th quarter points in playoffs and Finals (while he was on the floor).. He also scored at least 10 ppg more than Pippen in every playoff series of their CAREERS (except two, when MJ scored 8 ppg and 5 ppg more).

No one in history was required to do these things - only Jordan - because Pippen was AIDS, and the remaining supporting cast was also lesser than what other greats had...

Btw, in addition to scoring a higher proportion of his team's points than anyone ever has, MJ also led his team in passing by assisting on the highest proportion of teammate FG's (MJ led his team in assist percentage [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49]for both 3-peats[/url])
.

[QUOTE=3ball][B]Pippen in 1996 Playoffs[/B]: [B][COLOR="Red"]16.9 ppg on 39.0% fg[/COLOR][/B]
[B]Pippen in 1996 [COLOR="White"].[/COLOR]Finals:[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B][COLOR="Red"]15.1 ppg on 34.1% fg[/COLOR][/B]


[I][COLOR="Navy"]Yup... That's AIDS... WOAT actually[/COLOR][/I]... There's never been a 2nd option that horrific on a championship team.

And it wasn't just 1996... Pippen averaged 17/7/5 on 40.8% for the ENTIRE 2nd three-peat (1996-1998 playoffs) - that's the worst 2nd option performance for any winning championship team, ever.

And why were the Bulls still able to win?... It's because Jordan scored a higher proportion of his team's points than anyone ever has, including [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392376]50%[/url] of his team's 4th quarter points in playoffs and Finals (while he was on the floor).. He also scored at least 10 ppg more than Pippen in every playoff series of their CAREERS (except two, when MJ scored 8 ppg and 5 ppg more).

No one in history was required to do these things - only Jordan - because Pippen was AIDS, and the remaining supporting cast was also lesser than what other greats had...

Btw, in addition to scoring a higher proportion of his team's points than anyone ever has, MJ also led his team in passing by assisting on the highest proportion of teammate FG's (MJ led his team in assist percentage [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49]for both 3-peats[/url])
.[/QUOTE]

Why is it so ****ing hard for you admit a simple fact? PIPPEN WAS HURT DURING THE ENTIRE 96 PLAYOFFS AND NOT AT FULL CAPACITY. Jordan is already the consensus GOAT...are you this much a dick sucker and looney tune that you can't give any of his teammates any credit at all? What the hell is wrong with you? Seriously...I want to know what hell is going wrong in your goddamn brain? Are the pins not firing off properly? Did someone drop you on your ****ing head as a baby?

Scottie was hurt during every playoff run 96-98...you want to talk shit on his durability...fine...more power to you, but don't try and play it off like he was ever at full capacity. He almost didn't even play in game 1 vs the Jazz in the 97 finals because of the foot injury...you know...the injury that he had surgery on and caused him to miss half the 98 season? Why isn't it your ****ing post never mention any of this shit?...because it doesn't fit your agenda that Jordan carried six historically weak teams to 6 championships and a 72-10 record, right? Yeah I Guess Scottie had nothing to do with that either? He was only the best perimeter player in the league in 94 and 95 when Jordan was gone...but Jordan came back and boom...they won 72 games. You call yourself some big shit basketball fan while talking shit on one of the highest IQ and greatest all around basketball players ever? You aren't a fan of basketball...I'm sick of you and your tiresome nonsense you stupid ****ing mongoloid. Get a life bitch.