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[QUOTE]So why does Jokic have a better RPM in spite of playing over 600 more minutes?[/QUOTE]
Thats one of those questions im not sure what the expected response is.
Why someone has a better advanced stat rating than someone else is a question that depends entirely on both people accepting it as something that matters.
I dont think you have that at the moment.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Thats one of those questions im not sure what the expected response is.
Why someone has a better advanced stat rating than someone else is a question that depends entirely on both people accepting it as something that matters.
I dont think you have that at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Does box +/- matters? Jokic is ranked higher than both Davis and Embid.
Do winshares matter? Jokic is ranked higher than Davis and Embid.
Does VORP matter? Jokic is ranked higher than Davis and Embid.
[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019_leaders.html[/url]
So the real questions are, do availability and advanced stats matter?
[QUOTE=tontoz]Does box +/- matters? Jokic is ranked higher than both Davis and Embid.
Do winshares matter? Jokic is ranked higher than Davis and Embid.
Does VORP matter? Jokic is ranked higher than Davis and Embid.
[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019_leaders.html[/url]
So the real questions are, do availability and advanced stats matter?[/QUOTE]
Depends...Montrezl Harrell ranked the same as Embiid according to those advanced stats.
[QUOTE=iamgine]Depends...Montrezl Harrell ranked the same as Embiid according to those advanced stats.[/QUOTE]
Harrell ranked 20th in +/- and winshares, didn't make the top 20 in VORP. He had a huge year and is a big reason the Clippers were able to make the playoffs and take two games for GS.
Harrell played only 26 minutes per game off the bench so fatigue wasn't as much of an issue for him as it would be for starters. I think that he probably takes the regular season a lot more seriously than many stars do. Some stars are pacing themselves during the regular season.
Kawhi and Durant for example seems like they were coasting during the regular season, relative to what they are doing in the playoffs.
I think it is noteworthy that Embid didn't make the top 20 in any of those stats.
[QUOTE=tontoz]Harrell ranked 20th in +/- and winshares, didn't make the top 20 in VORP. He had a huge year and is a big reason the Clippers were able to make the playoffs and take two games for GS.
Harrell played only 26 minutes per game off the bench so fatigue wasn't as much of an issue for him as it would be for starters. I think that he probably takes the regular season a lot more seriously than many stars do. Some stars are pacing themselves during the regular season.
Kawhi and Durant for example seems like they were coasting during the regular season, relative to what they are doing in the playoffs.
I think it is noteworthy that Embid didn't make the top 20 in any of those stats.[/QUOTE]
And your question was...do those advanced stats matter? Jimmy Butler was ranked way way lower on those stats than Harrell. So did D'angelo Russell. On that basis, I don't think we can conclude it matters.
[QUOTE=iamgine]And your question was...do those advanced stats matter? Jimmy Butler was ranked way way lower on those stats than Harrell. So did D'angelo Russell. On that basis, I don't think we can conclude it matters.[/QUOTE]
That is idiotic. You are comparing a guy playing limited minutes off the bench to starters. Apples to oranges. Harrell is the only bench player on the lists, so you latch onto him.
Harrell could play all out all the time because he didn't play big minutes.
Also this was an off year for Butler, his lowest scoring year since he averaged 13 in his 3rd season.
Lets look at the top 20 in each stat.
Box +/-
1. James Harden
[QUOTE=iamgine]And your question was...do those advanced stats matter? Jimmy Butler was ranked way way lower on those stats than Harrell. So did D'angelo Russell. On that basis, I don't think we can conclude it matters.[/QUOTE]
Harell came off the bench and didn't play big minutes... That right there would explain it you can't compare bench minutes to starter minutes 1 for 1.
[QUOTE=tontoz]That is idiotic. You are comparing a guy playing limited minutes off the bench to starters. Apples to oranges. Harrell is the only bench player on the lists, so you latch onto him.
Harrell could play all out all the time because he didn't play big minutes.
Also this was an off year for Butler, his lowest scoring year since he averaged 13 in his 3rd season.
Lets look at the top 20 in each stat.
Box +/-
1. James Harden
[QUOTE=iamgine]Of course they are represented, but what you asked was using it for comparing players. If you want starter, can we really say Gobert is a top 2-5 player? KAT is a top 7 player?[/QUOTE]
No one stat is going to give a complete picture of a player. If you just look at rebounding but ignore scoring or defense then obviously you won't get a complete picture of a player's value. That doesn't mean rebounding doesn't matter.
Kat averaged 24/12 with a TS of 62%. He had a huge year which doesn't get much credit because the team around him is weak. They got rid of Butler during the season. Minny fans seem to hate Wiggins.
Gobert averaged 16/13 with a TS of 68%. He is a DPOY candidate every year and won it last year. Again his season gets discounted because Utah gets so little attention.
If the advanced stats don't matter, then what stats actually do matter?
[QUOTE=tontoz]No one stat is going to give a complete picture of a player. If you just look at rebounding but ignore scoring or defense then obviously you won't get a complete picture of a player's value. That doesn't mean rebounding doesn't matter.
Kat averaged 24/12 with a TS of 62%. He had a huge year which doesn't get much credit because the team around him is weak. They got rid of Butler during the season. Minny fans seem to hate Wiggins.
Gobert averaged 16/13 with a TS of 68%. He is a DPOY candidate every year and won it last year. Again his season gets discounted because Utah gets so little attention.
If the advanced stats don't matter, then what stats actually do matter?[/QUOTE]
Advanced stat matters, just not in the way you used them. It's not very useful in that context.
[QUOTE=iamgine]Advanced stat matters, just not in the way you used them. It's not very useful in that context.[/QUOTE]
So showing that one player outranks another player in not just one but several advanced stats isn't useful when comparing players?
OK
I think the real story is that advanced stats don't like Embiid. I think his usage rate is too high for a big who isnt a good playmaker.
Usage Pct
1. James Harden
Advanced stats now? Sheesh. Read my last reply in here for where I stand.
[QUOTE=tontoz]So showing that one player outranks another player in not just one but several advanced stats isn't useful when comparing players?
[/QUOTE]
Well, as shown by Gobert being top 2-5 player and KAT being top 7 player.
[QUOTE=iamgine]Well, as shown by Gobert being top 2-5 player and KAT being top 7 player.[/QUOTE]
So what? If they were in LA or NY people would be going nuts over them. Advanced stats don't care where a player plays.
[QUOTE=GOBB]Advanced stats now? Sheesh. Read my last reply in here for where I stand.[/QUOTE]
We know where you stand. Missing games doesn't matter and advanced stats don't matter. Only the eye test matters.