When did Lebron elevate a team of unestablished/young players to a championship?

When did MJ win a playoff series without Pippen, does anyone know?

[QUOTE=Manny98]When did MJ win a playoff series without Pippen, does anyone know?[/QUOTE]

Wait so he didn't need an established star (or multiple established stars for that matter) to win? (6 times). He just needed a raw unproven rookie?

When did Bran do that again?

Thanks.

Jordan didn't win until Pippen became an all star...

[QUOTE=Manny98]

When did MJ win a playoff series without Pippen, does anyone know?

[/QUOTE]
Pippen arrived at the right time - MJ was graduating from his 'lottery' stage, where lottery picks like MJ, Lebron, Durant, Curry, etc. typically miss the playoffs their first few seasons before elevating the team to playoff and contender status.

So the Bulls' playoff advance was due to the improvement of MJ to MVP/DPOY in 1988, aka GOAT, and not Pippen's 9 ppg in the 1st Round against Cleveland (MJ 45 ppg).

Ultimately, Lebron took 4 years to get the Cavs to the 07' Finals

But he didn't win the Finals - so he never elevated unestablished players to a championship, like the OP says

Whereas MJ elevated a group of raw, single-digit rookies to a three-peat, and is therefore "far" superior, like Hakeem said.

Ultimately, MJ dominated the league like lebron dominates the East because his skill allowed the best brand of ball movement basketball that yields the best teams.. So it didn't matter who MJ faced in the Finals - his Finals teams were juggernauts that would never be 3/9 regardless of opponent

Otoh, guys like Lebron/Nash/CP3 can't play the ball movement brand because they lack an adequate skillset to score or assist quickly in the midst of the ball moving... So they must dominate the ball to produce, which puts a lower ceiling on their teams.. This is why I rank players like Nash, CP3, and Lebron behind guys like MJ, Bird, and Kobe (the top 3 perimeter players of all time)

[QUOTE=3ball]Pippen arrived at the right time - MJ was graduating from his 'lottery' stage, where lottery picks like MJ, Lebron, Durant, Curry, etc. typically miss the playoffs their first few seasons before elevating the team to playoff and contender status.

So the Bulls' playoff advance was due to the improvement of MJ to MVP/DPOY in 1988, aka GOAT, and not Pippen's 9 ppg in the 1st Round against Cleveland (MJ 45 ppg).

Ultimately, Lebron took 4 years to get the Cavs to the 07' Finals

But he didn't win the Finals - so he never elevated unestablished players to a championship, like the OP says

Whereas MJ elevated a group of raw, single-digit rookies to a three-peat, and is therefore "far" superior, like Hakeem said.

Ultimately, MJ dominated the league like lebron dominates the East because his skill allowed the best brand of ball movement basketball that yields the best teams.. So it didn't matter who MJ faced in the Finals - his Finals teams were juggernauts that would never be 3/9 regardless of opponent

Otoh, guys like Lebron/Nash/CP3 can't play the ball movement brand because they lack an adequate skillset to score or assist quickly in the midst of the ball moving... So they must dominate the ball to produce, which puts a lower ceiling on their teams.. This is why I rank players like Nash, CP3, and Lebron behind guys like MJ, Bird, and Kobe (the top 3 perimeter players of all time)[/QUOTE]
the question was
When did MJ win a playoff series without Pippen, does anyone know?
give the f*cking answer

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]You asked about elevation of a young team, well smart fella Mj was adding top 10 picks for damn near 5 years. Lebron just one. Let that sink in.[/QUOTE]
In addition to the other [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13784633&postcount=39]slay[/url] I gave to your quote above:

Lebron already had the East two-time all-star center on his team when he entered the league, and also a 14/10 PF, which more than offsets the negligible, immaterial gap in draft positioning that you posted.

[QUOTE=zeerghit]the question was
When did MJ win a playoff series without Pippen, does anyone know?
give the f*cking answer[/QUOTE]
When did Lebron make the playoffs before Larry Hughes' arrival in 06', along with coaching change to COY Mike Brown?

I hope you didn't think the Cavs' improvement from 9-seed lottery in 05', to 4-seed frontrunner in 06' was due to anything other than that

Lebron's stats remained the same from 05' to 08' - they were worse actually on the 2-seeded Finals team in 07' compared to his 05' lottery team.. So apparently it was the addition of a 1st team all-league defender and steals champ (Hughes), along with a coaching change to the COY that turned the Cavs from lottery (05') to contenders (06').

[QUOTE=3ball]Lebron took 4 years to get that team to the Finals in 07'

And he didn't win the Finals - so he never elevated unestablished players to a championship, like the OP says

Whereas MJ elevated a group of raw, single-digit rookies to a three-peat.. two three-peats

So a pretty big difference[/QUOTE]
The timeframe has absolutely nothing to do with my statement. Who has elevated a team like the 07 cavs to the finals? Not 4 years down the road. That year. Mj elevated a team with 4 lotto picks in 5 years to a championship caliber squad. It's 2 completely different situations. But keeping on trying to square peg that round hole fella, it suits you.

edit
[QUOTE=3ball]In addition to the other [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13784633&postcount=39]slay[/url] I gave to your quote above:

Lebron already had the East two-time all-star center on his team when he entered the league, and also a 14/10 PF, which more than offsets the negligible, immaterial gap in draft positioning that you posted.[/QUOTE]
oh wow just saw this ""slay"":roll: you're going to keep answering stupidly and i could continue to match your stupidity but no thanks "slayer":roll:

[QUOTE=3ball]When did Lebron make the playoffs before Larry Hughes' arrival in 06', along with coaching change to COY Mike Brown?

I hope you didn't think the Cavs' improvement from 9-seed lottery in 05', to 4-seed frontrunner in 06' was due to anything other than that

Lebron's stats remained the same from 05' to 08' - they were worse actually on the 2-seeded Finals team in 07' compared to his 05' lottery team.. So apparently it was the addition of a 1st team all-league defender and steals champ (Hughes), along with a coaching change to the COY that turned the Cavs from lottery (05') to contenders (06').[/QUOTE]
i will hellp you
the answer is 0 same amount u played games in d1

.
[U]Stats needed to make Finals:[/U]


[Url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01/gamelog/2001/#19-35-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs]01' Iverson Rounds 1-3[/url]... 32.3.... 4.5.. 6.8.. 38.9 fg
[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog/2007#14-29-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs]07' Lebron' Rounds 1-3[/url]... 25.8.... 8.3.. 8.3.. 43 4 fg
[Url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01/gamelog/2009/#15-32-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs]09' Dwight' Rounds 1-3[/url]... 21.7.. 15.4.. 1.8.. 62.2 fg.
[Url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kiddja01/gamelog/2003/#43-56-sum:pgl_basic_playoffs]03' J Kidd Rounds 1-3[/url]..... 20.3.... 8.4.. 8.3.. 42.3 fg



[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]

Who has elevated a team like the 07 cavs to the finals?

[/Quote]
Dwight in 09'

AI in 01'

Kidd in 02 and 03


So everyone was doing it in the 00"s decade, not just Lebron..

But even though weak casts were routinely winning the East, Lebron couldn't win in 09/10, so he stacked the deck from 11-18'.. Again - he needed established players because his skillset doesn't elevate unestablished ones


[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]

Who has elevated a team like the 07 cavs?

[/Quote]
Lebron had a 2 seed that got swept by the Spurs - that's weaker elevation than the 6th seeded bulls going 6 games versus the Bad Boys' in the 89' ECF

Lebron never took a low seed deep in the playoffs, while his high seeds are swept and destroyed by record amount

(bulls were the only team to win 2 games off the 89' bad boys.. whereas the 07' Spurs only swept lebron)


[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]

Who has elevated a team like the 07 cavs?

[/Quote]
89' Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
07' Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.


1st Round Jordan: CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron: WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 42.5% FG)

2nd Round Jordan: NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 55.0% FG)
2nd Round Lebron: NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 42.3% FG)

Conf. Finals Jordan: DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron: DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 44.9% FG)



[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]

MJ elevated a team with 4 lotto picks in 5 years to a championship caliber squad.

[/QUOTE]
MJ elevated raw rookies, while Lebron couldn't elevate a 2-time all-star center or a 22/5/5 steals champ and 1st team all-league defender.. :confusedshrug:

In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8.. So that was a LOTTERY roster without Jordan that MJ elevated to 3-peat caliber by 91'

3-peat > getting swept in the Finals in 07'
.

MJ didn't elevate shit, Pippen,Grant were top picks in the draft who were gonna develop into all star level players by their 3rd/4th seasons regardless of MJs input

They got Cartwright as well who averaged 20/8 per 36 prior to joining MJ

LeBron never had a bunch of lottery talent handed to him on a silver platter like MJ did

[QUOTE=Manny98]MJ didn't elevate shit, Pippen,Grant were top picks in the draft who were gonna develop into all star level players by their 3rd/4th seasons regardless of MJs input

They got Cartwright as well who averaged 20/8 per 36 prior to joining MJ

[B][COLOR="Navy"]LeBron never had a bunch of lottery talent handed to him on a silver platter like MJ did[/COLOR][/B]

[/QUOTE]
Lebron just missed the playoffs with more lottery talent than MJ ever had

But unfortunately, lebron never developed players - he needed established guys gifted to him, like 05' Zydrunas > any version of Grant.... and 05' Hughes > 88-89' pip

Lebron did less with more

Then he gets HOF's Wade/Bosh and loses with them... Twice... And by record amount... :facepalm... Otoh, MJ never lost in a full season once Pippen was established... :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=RRR3]3ball,


1. Why did you lie about retiring?

2. Why are you constantly changing your GOAT list? And not even minor changes either.[/QUOTE]

he is mentall ill leave him alone ...

why are you arguing with manny 3ball?

that guys dumber than wheels which is incredible

There