[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14427018]Gotta say, I'm surprised at all the love Wilt has gotten so far. I vote LeBron.[/QUOTE]
Gotta say I agree #2 is LeBron at this stage and the list is solid so far
#1Jordan
#2 LeBron
#3 Kareem ( he will win next slot @ #3 )
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[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14427018]Gotta say, I'm surprised at all the love Wilt has gotten so far. I vote LeBron.[/QUOTE]
Gotta say I agree #2 is LeBron at this stage and the list is solid so far
#1Jordan
#2 LeBron
#3 Kareem ( he will win next slot @ #3 )
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14426996]Well if you are going to say he was unlucky with having teammate injuries…he’s gonna have inflated counting stats. You didn’t mention fg% either. So he is gonna have a tougher time winning but he’s gonna put up better stats when he’s team is injured. You are trying to play it both ways a little there. 2016 he was shut down before all of golden state’s best defenders got taken out of the series. 2017 and beyond he literally stopped playing defense all together and was stat padding quite a bit. They are great numbers but we still need to apply context to them.[/QUOTE]
Iggy was injured that entire finals series in 2016. Draymond was only out for one game. And Bogut, while a key player defensively, wasn't playing long enough to be a key reason for LeBron's struggles (even though it did help LeBron have better starts to the games). Guys like Thompson and Barnes were still there the entire series and fully healthy. One of the main reasons LeBron was able to have back to back 40 point performances is due to his jump shot coming back in form. Before game 5 he was struggling to consistently hit his jumper and had to rely more on scoring inside. That was difficult to do against Golden State. For games 5 and 6, LeBron was almost impossible to guard, it didn't really matter who you were.
And I don't know where you're getting this idea that LeBron was shut down before game 5 (I'm assuming the first four games are what you're referring to). LeBron's only underwhelming performances scoring wise were in the first two games of that series. After that, LeBron didn't really have much difficulty scoring on a decent efficiency. Hell, game 7 was arguably his worst performance of the series in terms of efficiency, but he was dominant in other aspects of the game so he easily made up for it.
[QUOTE=coastalmarker99;14426964]Here are 40 games that Wilt played in the postseason that he had a triple-double in
3/18/62... 28 pts, 26 rebs, 12 blks
3/22/62... 56 pts, 35 rebs, 12 blks Game 5 of 5 game series
4/5/62... 22 pts, 22 rebs, 14 blks Game 7
3/4/64... 28 pts, 27 rebs, 15 blks
4/16/64... 39 pts, 30 rebs, 12 blks. Game 7
3/26/65... 30 pts, 15 rebs, 10 asts
3/31/65... 38 pts, 26 rebs, 10 blks Clincher
4/4/65.... 33 pts, 31 rebs, 11 blks
4/13/65... 30 pts, 26 rebs, 13 blks
4/15/65... 30 pts, 32 rebs, 12 blks Game 7
3/22/67... 37 pts, 27 rebs, 11 asts
3/24/67... 16 pts, 30 rebs, 19 asts
3/31/67... 24 pts, 32 rebs, 13 asts, 12 blks (quad-double)
4/2/67... 15 pts, 29 rebs, 10 blks
4/9/67.... 20 pts, 22 rebs, 10 asts
4/11/67...29 pts, 36 rebs, 13 asts Clincher
4/14/67... 16 pts, 33 rebs, 10 asts
4/16/67... 10 pts, 38 rebs, 10 asts, 10 blks (quad-double)
3/22/68... 37 pts 29 rebs 7 asts 10 blks
3/23/68 24 pts 17 rebs 8 asts 12 blks
3/27/68 18 pts 24 rebs 8 asts 11 blks
3/31/68 26 pts 21 rebs 7 asts 14 blks
4/1/68 25 pts 27 rebs 3 asts 10 blks
4/19/68 14 pts 34 rebs 5 asts 12 blks Game 7
4/5/69... 11 pts, 25 rebs, 15 blks
4/13/69... 23 pts, 29 rebs, 10 blks
4/17/69... 25 pts, 19 rebs, 13 blks
4/19/70... 11 pts, 21 rebs, 10 blks
4/20/69... 16 pts, 29 rebs, 16 blks 4/23/69... 15 pts, 23 rebs, 14 blks
5/5/69... 18 pts, 27 rebs, 10 blks Game 7
4/5/70.... 36 pts, 14 rebs, 10 blks
4/7/70.... 12 pts, 26 rebs, 11 asts, 11 blks (quad-double)
4/9/70.... 30 pts, 27 rebs, 12 blks Game 7
4/19/70... 11 pts, 21 rebs, 10 blks Clincher
3/26/71... 26 pts, 20 rebs, 10 blks
3/30/71... 12 pts, 23 rebs, 10 blks
4/18/72... 12 pts, 26 rebs, 11 blks
4/22/72... 20 pts, 24 rebs, 10 blks Clincher (and against KAJ)
5/7/72.... 24 pts, 29 rebs, 10 blks * (CavsFTW with 8) Clincher
4/8/73... 11 pts, 30 rebs, 12 blks
Wilt had eight
20-20 post-seasons?
Wilt had six
25-20 post-seasons
Wilt had four
30-20 post-seasons
Wilt had three
30-25 post-seasons
Wilt had one
35-25 post-season
Narrowing it down even further:
Wilt had six
28-20 post-seasons
Wilt had five
28-25 post-seasons
Wilt had one
28-30 post-season[/QUOTE]
No one is ignoring the numbers Wilt put up. I just don't see how they are justifiable enough to put him over LeBron here. Again, Wilt's numbers come with a bit of an asterisk. He played in an era where only a (literally) couple of people were capable of stopping him. He had physical attributes that would be considered out of this world in today's NBA, and even then there's a lot more people now who could at least attempt to give Wilt fits. Back then there was basically nothing you could do to stop Wilt from doing whatever he wanted.
Let's compare that to LeBron for a second. LeBron's stats are pretty insane when you look at them career wise. But tell me: what do you think LeBron's numbers would look like if he actually gave a shit about stats? Let's say for the sake of argument that he spent his entire career being a legitimate stat hound like, say, Russell Westbrook. Could you even begin to fathom what LeBron's numbers would look like? Remember in the 2020 season, when he FINALLY took on the role of being not only the main playmaker, but the main distributor as well? There were no ball sharing responsibilities in the starting line up. He was going to be the PG, period. The result was him leading the league in assists and having the average be in the double digits for the first time in his career. Imagine if he did that all the time? Imagine if he completely disregarded team defense and constantly gambled on defense like he did in his second season in the league (where he averaged a career high 2.2 SPG). Remember when we saw an angry and determined LeBron dismantle the Celtics in game 6 of the 2012 playoffs? He scored 45 points on 70% shooting from the field. The crazy thing about this is that he could have easily scored 50 if he wanted to. He already had 41 points by the end of the third quarter. Remember game 1 of the 2018 NBA Finals where he took it upon himself to be the leading scorer and do everything he can to give his team a chance to win? Dropped 51 points on one of the most stacked teams of all time and almost pulled it off. Imagine if LeBron decided he wanted to be the main scorer at a much more frequent rate? Keep in mind, he has two full seasons of averaging 30 PPG under his belt where he DIDN'T have this mentality. The man was literally so good that he won a scoring title without even trying.
Imagine if he did that for his entire career.
The numbers obviously would not be anywhere close to Wilts, but then again, no one's would. But my point is that as impressive as Wilt's numbers are, LeBron's to me stand out a lot more, because he spent mostly his entire career still playing a relatively passive role compared to the rest of the top ten all time greats. Now just imagine if he wasn't as passive as he was. I don't think any of us can comprehend just how good his career numbers would be.
LeBron all the way. He has like ten votes now, onto #3 OP.
[QUOTE=SaintzFury13;14427100]No one is ignoring the numbers Wilt put up. I just don't see how they are justifiable enough to put him over LeBron here. Again, Wilt's numbers come with a bit of an asterisk. He played in an era where only a (literally) couple of people were capable of stopping him. He had physical attributes that would be considered out of this world in today's NBA, and even then there's a lot more people now who could at least attempt to give Wilt fits. Back then there was basically nothing you could do to stop Wilt from doing whatever he wanted.
[B]Let's compare that to LeBron for a second. LeBron's stats are pretty insane when you look at them career wise. But tell me: what do you think LeBron's numbers would look like if he actually gave a shit about stats? Let's say for the sake of argument that he spent his entire career being a legitimate stat hound like, say, Russell Westbrook.[/B] [B]Could you even begin to fathom what LeBron's numbers would look like? [/B]Remember in the 2020 season, when he FINALLY took on the role of being not only the main playmaker, but the main distributor as well? There were no ball sharing responsibilities in the starting line up. He was going to be the PG, period. The result was him leading the league in assists and having the average be in the double digits for the first time in his career. Imagine if he did that all the time? Imagine if he completely disregarded team defense and constantly gambled on defense like he did in his second season in the league (where he averaged a career high 2.2 SPG). Remember when we saw an angry and determined LeBron dismantle the Celtics in game 6 of the 2012 playoffs? He scored 45 points on 70% shooting from the field. The crazy thing about this is that he could have easily scored 50 if he wanted to. He already had 41 points by the end of the third quarter. Remember game 1 of the 2018 NBA Finals where he took it upon himself to be the leading scorer and do everything he can to give his team a chance to win? Dropped 51 points on one of the most stacked teams of all time and almost pulled it off. Imagine if LeBron decided he wanted to be the main scorer at a much more frequent rate? Keep in mind, he has two full seasons of averaging 30 PPG under his belt where he DIDN'T have this mentality. The man was literally so good that he won a scoring title without even trying.
Imagine if he did that for his entire career.
The numbers obviously would not be anywhere close to Wilts, but then again, no one's would. But my point is that as impressive as Wilt's numbers are, LeBron's to me stand out a lot more, because he spent mostly his entire career still playing a relatively passive role compared to the rest of the top ten all time greats. Now just imagine if he wasn't as passive as he was. I don't think any of us can comprehend just how good his career numbers would be.[/QUOTE]
LeBron is no stranger to stat-padding, and he's on record that he intends to do just that, as early as 2013 with Miami. He made it known, he's trying to get every point, rebound, and assist, and he wasn't going to come out until he gets whatever his mark was. I mean, he does this in the playoffs, too.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14427301]LeBron is no stranger to stat-padding, and he's on record that he intends to do just that, as early as 2013 with Miami. He made it known, he's trying to get every point, rebound, and assist, and he wasn't going to come out until he gets whatever his mark was. I mean, he does this in the playoffs, too.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
We know that Lebron is obsessed with his stats and records such as his 10 point game streak.
[QUOTE=SaintzFury13;14427100]No one is ignoring the numbers Wilt put up. I just don't see how they are justifiable enough to put him over LeBron here. Again, Wilt's numbers come with a bit of an asterisk. He played in an era where only a (literally) couple of people were capable of stopping him. He had physical attributes that would be considered out of this world in today's NBA, and even then there's a lot more people now who could at least attempt to give Wilt fits. Back then there was basically nothing you could do to stop Wilt from doing whatever he wanted.
Let's compare that to LeBron for a second. LeBron's stats are pretty insane when you look at them career-wise. But tell me: what do you think LeBron's numbers would look like if he actually gave a shit about stats? Let's say for the sake of argument that he spent his entire career being a legitimate stat hound-like, say, Russell Westbrook.
Could you even begin to fathom what LeBron's numbers would look like? Remember in the 2020 season, when he FINALLY took on the role of being not only the main playmaker but the main distributor as well? There were no ball sharing responsibilities in the starting lineup.
He was going to be the PG, period. The result was him leading the league in assists and having the average be in the double digits for the first time in his career. Imagine if he did that all the time?
Imagine if he completely disregarded team defence and constantly gambled on defence as he did in his second season in the league (where he averaged a career-high 2.2 SPG).
Remember when we saw an angry and determined LeBron dismantle the Celtics in game 6 of the 2012 playoffs? He scored 45 points on 70% shooting from the field.
The crazy thing about this is that he could have easily scored 50 if he wanted to.
He already had 41 points by the end of the third quarter. Remember game 1 of the 2018 NBA Finals where he took it upon himself to be the leading scorer and do everything he can to give his team a chance to win? Dropped 51 points on one of the most stacked teams of all time and almost pulled it off.
Imagine if LeBron decided he wanted to be the main scorer at a much more frequent rate? Keep in mind, he has two full seasons of averaging 30 PPG under his belt where he DIDN'T have this mentality. The man was literally so good that he won a scoring title without even trying.
Imagine if he did that for his entire career.
The numbers obviously would not be anywhere close to Wilts, but then again, no one's would. But my point is that as impressive as Wilt's numbers are, LeBron's to me stand out a lot more, because he spent mostly his entire career still playing a relatively passive role compared to the rest of the top ten all time greats. Now just imagine if he wasn't as passive as he was. I don't think any of us can comprehend just how good his career numbers would be.[/QUOTE]
Brian Scalabrine says LeBron “Stat Pads”
[video=youtube;idjY85oAR2I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idjY85oAR2I[/video]
Lebron says check my stats.
[video=youtube;peje347EHOk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peje347EHOk[/video]
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14427301]LeBron is no stranger to stat-padding, and he's on record that he intends to do just that, as early as 2013 with Miami. He made it known, he's trying to get every point, rebound, and assist, and he wasn't going to come out until he gets whatever his mark was. I mean, he does this in the playoffs, too.[/QUOTE]
You can literally tell by the way that he plays that he doesn't stat pad on a regular basis. He's stated that he does it before, but you can tell which games he does and which ones he doesn't. And in the ones that he does? It happens very, VERY rarely.
[QUOTE=coastalmarker99;14427302]:applause:
We know that Lebron is obsessed with his stats and records such as his 10 point game streak.[/QUOTE]
If LeBron cared that much about stats and accolades he would have more all defensive team selections. He would have been the scoring champion more than once. He would have led the league in assists a long time ago. He could really care less about them. Anyone who regularly watches him knows that.
[QUOTE=SaintzFury13;14427308]You can literally tell by the way that he plays that he doesn't stat pad on a regular basis. He's stated that he does it before, but you can tell which games he does and which ones he doesn't. And in the ones that he does? It happens very, VERY rarely.[/QUOTE]
Is it as extreme as Westbrook? No. But is he pretty adamant about it? Absolutely. I wouldn't say it happens "very very" rarely. If that were the case, it wouldn't be so widely accepted. Here's LeBron on record talking about his triple doubles:
[QUOTE]"I was going to stay out there until I got it," James said. "I wasn't going to let this one slip away. I've had too many games where I was one assist, one rebound away. I wasn't coming out."
[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=400278546"]https://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=400278546[/URL]
[QUOTE=coastalmarker99;14427302]:applause:
We know that Lebron is obsessed with his stats and records such as his 10 point game streak.[/QUOTE]
Yea this is another blatant example. That was pretty embarrassing. I mean, he looks at his stats as some sort of validation. It's why when he was being questioned about his ability concerning his age, he took to Twitter to praise a third straight triple-double, against the Bulls, lol.
[URL="https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2019-11-07-lebron-james-is-the-nbas-best-stat-padder-not-the-nbas-best-player/"]https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2019-11-07-lebron-james-is-the-nbas-best-stat-padder-not-the-nbas-best-player/[/URL]
It's obvious that his stats are his way of validating his progress, and running up totals (including rings), is the way that he thinks his legacy is validated. That's fine. It is what it is. It's just cringeworthy to see a poster as Saint deny it as if it didn't happen. I mean, IIRC, LeBron stayed in when his team was up by 20+ against GS in the finals to make sure he matched Kyrie's 40. There are just too many examples to mention.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14427311]Is it as extreme as Westbrook? No. But is he pretty adamant about it? Absolutely. I wouldn't say it happens "very very" rarely. If that were the case, it wouldn't be so widely accepted. Here's LeBron on record talking about his triple doubles:
[URL="https://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=400278546"]https://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=400278546[/URL][/QUOTE]
You just posted something confirming he does not stat pad because he "let so many slip away." I bet he probably has the most 10+, 10+, 9 games meaning he does NOT go for them. Are you that dense coach?
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14427311]Is it as extreme as Westbrook? No. But is he pretty adamant about it? Absolutely. I wouldn't say it happens "very very" rarely. If that were the case, it wouldn't be so widely accepted. Here's LeBron on record talking about his triple doubles:
[URL="https://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=400278546"]https://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=400278546[/URL][/QUOTE]
First off, you just gave me an interview where he outright admits that he had many games where was one assist and one rebound away from getting a triple double and he let them go. How does that not prove my point? Second, that's the best proof you have of him being adamant about it? One game? And how many games has LeBron played in his career? And the best you could find me was one game, and the Madison Square Garden games (because it's a well known fact that he went all out whenever he played there back in the first stint with Cleveland and early Miami days). That to me qualifies as "very rarely".
Poor Laz :oldlol:
Chokerlain isn't even top 5, give it up bud
[QUOTE=Manny98;14427432]Poor Laz :oldlol:
Chokerlain isn't even top 5, give it up bud[/QUOTE]
Wilt usually for the past 50 years has been ranked as a top 5 player of all-time.
AP Basketball Player of the Century (1999)
Michael Jordan (49)
Oscar Robertson (44)
Wilt Chamberlain (42)
Selection Panel of Marv Albert, Chick Hearn, Fuzzy Levane, Harvey Pollack, Bill Russell, and Lenny Wilkens
SLAM Magazine Top 75 NBA Players of All-Time (2003)
Michael Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Jerry West
Shaquille O'Neal
Julius Erving
Slam Magazine's Top 50 NBA Players Of All-Time (2009)
1) Michael Jordan
2) Wilt Chamberlain
3) Bill Russell
4) Shaquille O'Neal
5) Oscar Robertson
6) Magic Johnson
Inside Hoops Top 50 NBA Players Of All-Time (2007)
1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Earvin 'Magic' Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
Real GM's Top 50 NBA Players Of All-Time (June 2014)
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. LeBron
8. Magic
9. Hakeem
10. Bird
Pro Sports Daily (July 2014)
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Magic
5. Shaq
6. Duncan
7. Hakeem
8. LeBron
9. Bird
10. Kobe
ESPN's All-Time Rankings (2016)
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. LeBron James
4. Magic Johnson
5. Wilt Chamberlain
Top 10 NBA Player Peaks of All-Time According to ISH 2012)
#1 Michael Jordan 90-93
#2 Shaquille O'Neal 99-02
#3 Wilt Chamberlain 65-68
Wilt was ranked No. 13 in the ESPN list "Top North American Athletes of the Century" in 1999.
And was also voted the second-best center of all-time by ESPN behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in 2007.