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[QUOTE=3ba11;14475331][B]We're all adults here and know the facts
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Kukoc was HOF for his euro career, so you're the one lying and stretching the truth
and Jordan 3-peated from 91-93' with 1 HOF and a 1st time, nobody coach - Phil was a 1st time, nobody coach in 90/91, while Jordan was already a goat candidate.
Those are the facts[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=dankok8;14475370]I don't think Worthy or McHale are capable of winning titles as #1 options either. I have Pippen over both of them on my all-time list. And over Nique who was basically just a scorer.
I am fair. I just honestly don't see Pippen as a #1 option type of player. You probably have to score more than 22 ppg OR be a defensive anchor i.e. defensive big like Garnett to win titles as the clear-cut best player. [B]There are a few exceptions but generally best players on title teams are either elite offensive players or elite two-way big men. Pippen fits into neither of those molds. Pippen at his peak in 1994 in terms of impact still falls well short of guys like Robinson, Barkley, Malone, Shaq and Hakeem.[/B]Pippen and Ewing are comparable around 1994 but 1990 peak Ewing was a bit better than any version of Pippen. Ewing was so good offensively that season and couldn't really sustain it as he got older.[/QUOTE]
Magic on the Lakers, Isiah Thomas of the Bad Boy Pistons, the 08 Celtics, Tim Duncan on the Spurs, the 04 Pistons, that's 14 Championships We're the teams best player was scoring at roughly the same level as Scottie Pippen. The best player on the winningest NBA team ever wasn't a great scorer in Bill Russell. Pippen proved he could be just as effective at anchoring a defense as a great center when he led the Bulls to the 2nd best defense, led the league in steals, and led the league in defensive rating. What he didn't have was a bunch of opportunities and a top 3 team in his prime. Now I'm not saying Pippen is a top 10 level talent, but I put him in that 2nd tier with guys like Wade, Robinson, Nowitzki etc.
[QUOTE=outofstomach;14475354]are you actually ****ing serious?[/QUOTE]
WTF is wrong with you? You think his father dying and playing a game 7 against a violent team had nothing to do with him being under stress and pressure? What is Pippen a robot?
[QUOTE=97 bulls;14475385]WTF is wrong with you? You think his father dying and playing a game 7 against a violent team had nothing to do with him being under stress and pressure? What is Pippen a robot?[/QUOTE]
moreso the pistons roughing up Pippen somehow induces a magical migraine, you’re definitely a moron :lol
[QUOTE=outofstomach;14475388]moreso the pistons roughing up Pippen somehow induces a magical migraine, you’re definitely a moron :lol[/QUOTE]
Not just that asshole, his father dying a few weeks prior as well
[QUOTE=97 bulls;14475381]Magic on the Lakers, Isiah Thomas of the Bad Boy Pistons, the 08 Celtics, Tim Duncan on the Spurs, the 04 Pistons, that's 14 Championships We're the teams best player was scoring at roughly the same level as Scottie Pippen. The best player on the winningest NBA team ever wasn't a great scorer in Bill Russell. Pippen proved he could be just as effective at anchoring a defense as a great center when he led the Bulls to the 2nd best defense, led the league in steals, and led the league in defensive rating. What he didn't have was a bunch of opportunities and a top 3 team in his prime. Now I'm not saying Pippen is a top 10 level talent, but I put him in that 2nd tier with guys like Wade, Robinson, Nowitzki etc.[/QUOTE]
Magic was an elite offensive player. He obviously didn't score a lot but he was the greatest playmaking machine in history. Garnett, Duncan and Russell were elite two-way big men that I mentioned as the other lead dog archetype. It's a big offensive star or a two-way big man. Other kinds of players very rarely lead teams to titles as clear cut best players.
The Bad Boy Pistons are a good counterexample you gave. Isiah in 89 and 90 doesn't fit either of the two archetypes but then again he isn't a big megastar. I could see Pippen winning a ring on such a team as the best player (Isiah and Pippen are the same tier) but those teams are tougher to construct. You typically need really good depth of 3-4 borderline all-stars around the lead player and it's a very delicate balance of egos. And I'm not even sure Pippen could even carry a load offensively to pull it off. Isiah didn't score more than Pippen but he did so in key games and key moments. And if another player is carrying the offense then Pippen isn't the clear-cut best player any more and the argument falls apart. Pippen is an impactful defender but he isn't an anchor like the two-way big men. Pippen's defensive impact is small compared to someone like Garnett or Robinson so if someone else carries a lot of offensive load Pippen won't be clearly the best player any more.
[QUOTE=outofstomach;14475388]moreso the pistons roughing up Pippen somehow induces a magical migraine, you’re definitely a moron :lol[/QUOTE]
You're literally arguing with a Pippen's chief of advertising here so don't waste it :lol
#NEVERFORGET:
Averaged 37.1 points per game. Fully healthy, played 82 games.
Had a teammate who averaged 14.5 points, 13.1 rebounds and 3.6 assists - numbers which were averaged only by Charles Barkley, Shaq, Garnett, Giannis and Embiid since. Fully healthy, played 82 games.
Still failed to do as well as an all-star-less team led by a rookie version of this guy:
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Then this happened:
[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/sxQfmm9F/23has-Asavior-PIP.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Reggie43;14474951]This is pretty much Jordan's only real weakness. While it could be effective and necessary, that in your face leadership style needed Phil and Pippen to balance things out. It is also true the other way around, you wont win trying to please everybody on the team and telling them things they wanna hear. Somebody needs to be the asshole and tell them what they need to hear to make the team better and tougher.[/QUOTE]
Being critical does not mean berating teammates. Berating teammates does not elevate a team
[QUOTE=Bawkish;14475550]You're literally arguing with a Pippen's chief of advertising here so don't waste it :lol[/QUOTE]
So basically the same applies with you and Jordan. Gotcha
is Pippen broke? I see he wants to make some money throwing such statements.
[QUOTE=theman93;14474805]And do you not blame Lebron's supporting cast for all the Finals he's lost?[/QUOTE]
Yes 8ball does.
[QUOTE=SATAN;14474946]Pippen is one of the best players of all time and Horance Grant was an all star. Cartwright threatened to beat the shit out of MJ. He should have.[/QUOTE]
LOLing at Grant's 1 All-Star appearance.
[QUOTE=97 bulls;14475328]Context is everything. How do you know he wasn't good enough? The context has to be applied. Did he have the team? How many times did Pippen have top tier talent around him while in his prime to say what he couldn't do? Did he have a fair chance?
That's what's funny. See guys like Worthy, McHale, are ways looked at as being good enough to be the best player on a championship team, even though they never got remotely close to doing so. Pippen did.
So how are you quantifying Pippen nor being able to win a championship? Because the teams he led weren't as good as the teams Jordan led. Why didn't Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, Malone, Wilkins to name a few not win a championship or win championship as the teams best player as in the case with Robinson.
You don't get to say Pippen wasn't good enough and then excuse the players I listed for not doing what Pippen wasn't able to do when those players had a whole career to win as the best player where Pippen only had 1. Truth be told, Pippen faired as well as anybody else. The only reason the 20 players you alluded to have rings is because they had one of the top 3 teams that year. Typically players aren't expected to win unless they have the most talent. Unless you're Scottie Pippen.
I mean let's be fair.[/QUOTE]
There was only one year the Bulls lost to the Knicks in the playoffs in the 90's...
[QUOTE=hateraid;14475668]Being critical does not mean berating teammates. Berating teammates does not elevate a team[/QUOTE]
You must have missed the part when I called it a weakness?