Top 10 most overrated list which exists just to farm engagement.

What if Larry Nance was top 30 all-time? Wouldn't he be on the list?

Because that's what Pippen was - a Larry Nance-level player that was inflated to top 30 all-time by the winning spotlight

And Pippen developed into a Larry Nance-level player - he didn't enter the league anywhere near that and needed to be in the perfect situation to grow into that player - this makes him even more overrated

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14845682]Easy to say now. At the time Stockton was growing up point guards looked to pass to the open man. That's how I played the game. They weren't expected to score points. If he was coming into the league now he'd likely be a different player or he'd be playing in Spain.

Not a fan of Kidd or Iverson. I know it's difficult for you but that's just the way it's always been and it's not going to change[/QUOTE]

I’m not a fan of Karl Malone, but you won’t catch me saying he couldn’t run the floor which is pretty equivalent to you talking about Jason Kidds basketball IQ as a problem. It’s like not liking Stockton because he wasn’t a good enough playmaker.

if you don’t like a guy just don’t like him. You don’t need to act like his celebrated primary attribute is a weakness.

The extreme extreme vast majority of his career he was not leading his team in shots, and when he did briefly it was the most successful that franchise ever was.

Acting like he wasn’t a smart player because of it is just being contrarian.

everybody is allowed to hate whoever they want. But youre acting like a guy hating on Vince Carter because of a lack of athleticism. What you’re saying just doesn’t compute.

Oh, and the greatest point guards before the time of Stockton were Bob Cousy who led the NBA in shot attempts on worse shooting than Jason Kidd, Oscar who scored over 30 points a game, Tiny Archibald who scored 34 points a game, Walt Frazier who was a 22/6 combo guard type, and then Magic and Isiah. And Magic was a wing before Stockton came along. The only elite points pre Stockton who were not prone to shoot a lot were…Lenny Wilkens aaaaand…who? Dave Bing was a 27ppg guy. I know you know all about Pistol Pete. Earl Monroe sure as shit wasn’t passing.

The idea that old-school point guards weren’t prone to shoot a lot is nothing but a myth born of a lack of information. Cousy was the prototype and he was first or second in the league in field goal attempts for 4 years in a row.

The great non-shooting Stockton like traditional point guard, people romanticize never actually existed. Every great point guard before Stockton, who wad as talented as he was….scored a great deal. He broke the trend of great point guards the scorers. He wasn’t following some trend.

The points who didn’t score…were the bad ones and role players.

Stockton isn’t a traditional great point. He’s a great point who pioneered playing like he wasn’t.

He isn’t anything close to the old school great points. He’s the better version of old school middling points who couldn’t score. Those who could always did. Because it was the right thing to do.

There is no group of all time elite points before Stockton who didn’t shoot a lot. There is a group of guys like Kevin Porter.

The greats were all bigtime scorers. The other guys were the tier or two below.

Stockton was a tier 1 all time talent who played like a tier 3 Mark Jackson, Rondo, or Kevin Porter and his team would’ve been better if he didn’t.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14845693]I’m not a fan of Karl Malone, but you won’t catch me saying he couldn’t run the floor which is pretty equivalent to you talking about Jason Kidds basketball IQ as a problem. It’s like not liking Stockton because he wasn’t a good enough playmaker.

if you don’t like a guy just don’t like him. You don’t need to act like his celebrated primary attribute is a weakness.

The extreme extreme vast majority of his career he was not leading his team in shots, and when he did briefly it was the most successful that franchise ever was.

Acting like he wasn’t a smart player because of it is just being contrarian.

everybody is allowed to hate whoever they want. But youre acting like a guy hating on Vince Carter because of a lack of athleticism. What you’re saying just doesn’t compute.[/QUOTE]

He shot too much for a guy that couldn't shoot. No amount of triple doubles changes that

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14845700]He shot too much for a guy that couldn't shoot. No amount of triple doubles changes that[/QUOTE]


so if he shoots less a team whos first option is Keith Vanhorn is going to defeat a team that has both Shaq and Kobe in their primes? No. Of course not. So what is the tangible real world result of him playing the way you suggest he should have?

I don’t think you actually have anything. I think you just don’t like him. And that I can get behind. He was kind of an asshole. But let’s just leave it at that because you’re complaining about bullshit that I don’t believe even you thinks would’ve changed any significant result.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14845702]so if he shoots less a team whos first option is Keith Vanhorn is going to defeat a team that has both Shaq and Kobe in their primes? No. Of course not. So what is the tangible real world result of him playing the way you suggest he should have?

I don’t think you actually have anything. I think you just don’t like him. And that I can get behind. He was kind of an asshole. But let’s just leave it at that because you’re complaining about bullshit that I don’t believe even you thinks would’ve changed any significant result.[/QUOTE]

they didn't beat Shaq and Kobe with him shooting under 40%. I don't like him or the way he played. If you can't shoot pass. Pretty simple. Would work for The Bum but he can't pass either

Even melting down about Clarkson in non related threads. :biggums:

Nobody was gonna do it passing to Van Horn. Luckily for Stockton he had an all timer to drop it off to for like 1200 games in a row. Kidd didn’t play with anyone better than him till he was approaching washed. Hell he didn’t play with as good a scorer as Thurl Bailey from like 96 to 05. Bit tougher to pull a champion caliber offense out of Kerry Kittles and KVH instead of Hornacek and Karl Malone.

Kidd absolutely maximized the one team he did the thing you’re most critical of on. It’s clearly just personal. Which as I said is fine. But let’s leave out any basketball based explanations about the intelligence of one of the best basketball minds the game has ever seen.

38 % on 16 shots says otherwise

Kidd is definitely an overrated scorer. Him taking his team to the Finals and dominating bad teams when the East was at its alltime worst doesnt change that.

Funny thing is if his Nets team were in the West they probably lose in the first round both times because they wouldnt have home court advantage.

[QUOTE=Reggie43;14845732]Kidd is definitely an overrated scorer. Him taking his team to the Finals and dominating bad teams when the East was at its alltime worst doesnt change that.

Funny thing is if his Nets team were in the West they probably lose in the first round both times because they wouldnt have home court advantage.[/QUOTE]

probably don't make the playoffs in the west

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14845597]Being great in any era under any coach with any teammates is a problem?[/QUOTE]

No, playing the same way and putting up a 13/11 on 55 statline on let's say the Nets doesn't yield the same team results. At some point the best player has to take over.

Stockton being efficient, but having no take over mentality would've been an issue on teams without a top dog scorer.

I love the disrespect to a guy that gave great numbers to Jeff Malone, Thurl Bailey, and Jeff Hornacek. The fact that people still can't deal with John Stockton's greatest 25 years later is a testament to how underrated he was.

Anywho...top ten overrated players in my eyes

1. Shaq
2. Kevin Durant
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Robert Parish
5. Steve Nash
6. Ray Allen
7. Paul Pierce
8. Paul George
9. Yao Ming
10. Scottie Pippen

Paul george.

[QUOTE=John8204;14845859]I love the disrespect to a guy that gave great numbers to Jeff Malone, Thurl Bailey, and Jeff Hornacek. The fact that people still can't deal with John Stockton's greatest 25 years later is a testament to how underrated he was.

Anywho...top ten overrated players in my eyes

1. Shaq
2. Kevin Durant
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Robert Parish
5. Steve Nash
6. Ray Allen
7. Paul Pierce
8. Paul George
9. Yao Ming
10. Scottie Pippen[/QUOTE]

no better than the Bum. Efficiency means nothing!