Lebron James - 4 FMVPs - 2nd best Winner of all time

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[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14939065]Jordan's team won 55 games without him.[/QUOTE]

And Austin Reaves apparently could win 55 against sleeping opponents as well... :facepalm:

It wasn't remotely surprising that once opponents woke up in the playoffs, the Bulls were exposed and the "real" Bulls without MJ were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ returned.. It's intuitive that any team with Pippen as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty as we saw in 95'.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14939079]He might have 11 lol[/QUOTE]

Not 11 but I think he's probably got a good argument for 7-8.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14939020]Quick bump and reminder for the inbreds posting here.

No one has higher regular season achievements (4 MVPS) and Finals Achievements (4 FMVPs) than Lebron in his era, which is the modern era.

Lebron is the clear cut GOAT of the modern era.[/QUOTE]

Clear cut historical record.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14939074]He'd also have more than 6.....[/QUOTE]

Sure.

He had very subdued offensive series in 1957, 1964, and 1968. So I think he would have about 7.

[QUOTE=dankok8;14939248]Sure.

He had very subdued offensive series in 1957, 1964, and 1968. So I think he would have about 7.[/QUOTE]

Back then somehow the minds that analyzed basketball weren't stuck on ppg and knew Russell's impact. So worrying about his offense whenever that was just the cherry on top of his real impact is questionable.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14939266]Back then somehow the minds that analyzed basketball weren't stuck on ppg and knew Russell's impact. So worrying about his offense whenever that was just the cherry on top of his real impact is questionable.[/QUOTE]

When his teammates are scoring ~10 ppg more than him and also playmaking more then it's likely he doesn't get FMVP. It's not about being stuck on ppg. Defensive impact only takes you so far. Still ~7 FMVP's which he IMO gets is pretty insane.

[QUOTE=dankok8;14939320]When his teammates are scoring ~10 ppg more than him and also playmaking more then it's likely he doesn't get FMVP. It's not about being stuck on ppg. Defensive impact only takes you so far. Still ~7 FMVP's which he IMO gets is pretty insane.[/QUOTE]

Hate to tell you this, but he has 5 LEAGUE MVPS under those exact same circumstances. Cmon now.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14939331]Hate to tell you this, but he has 5 LEAGUE MVPS under those exact same circumstances. Cmon now.[/QUOTE]
Bro's scared he'd almost double his hero in FMVPs :lol

I remember I saw a comprehensive breakdown on FMVP's pre 1969, don't remember which site, and they came to the conclusion Russell would've won 7 FMVP's for his first 10 rings, which imo is a pretty fair estimate.

Where Russell really gets boned is not having DPOY in his era, he could've won almost every year of his career, I think that same site estimated he'd be at something ridiculous like 11 DPOY's.

Let me clarify that Bill Russell is basically included in this as well since we know he would've had a lot of FMVPs if the award existed.

So I am happy to rephrase the OP to only factor in the NBA post-1980 (3-point line).

When it comes to GOAT discussions, the players NEED the FMVP with the Ring. It's a requirement.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14939338]Let me clarify that Bill Russell is basically included in this as well since we know he would've had a lot of FMVPs if the award existed.

So I am happy to rephrase the OP to only factor in the NBA post-1980 (3-point line).

When it comes to GOAT discussions, the players NEED the FMVP with the Ring. It's a requirement.[/QUOTE]
3ball's real favorite player only won 2 FMVP's for his 5 rings :(

There's zero arguments whatsoever that Lebron is a bigger winner than Bill, the goat, or Kareem. Hell, he doesn't have much of a conversation being above Magic in that regard.

[QUOTE=hold this L;14939699]There's zero arguments whatsoever that Lebron is a bigger winner than Bill, the goat, or Kareem. Hell, he doesn't have much of a conversation being above Magic in that regard.[/QUOTE]
Kareem's last 2 titles are pretty weak for GOAT standards

19/7/2 on 60%TS in the '87 playoffs
14/6/2 on 50%TS in the '88 playoffs

Don't get me wrong, '87 is impressive for a 40 year old, but imo that shouldn't move the needle in GOAT discussions. Besides, people get WAY too caught up in rings in GOAT discussions, treating it like it's golf or tennis.

In regards to LeBron, he played GOAT tier basketball in several years he didn't win like '09, '17 & '18, his team not winning a championship doesn't invalidate how he performed, same could be said for several other players as well.

We all know that kong is probably the most ultimate carrying machine the league has ever seen who used to thrive so much with a roster full of scrubs. But let's face it. There wouldn't be tons of roster changes that happened on his teams throughout his career if he was more effective at winning the finals that way. :ohwell:

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14911931]Lebron won 3 chips in 5 years just like Duncan. Curry was the second option to Durant, so no one cares about Curry those years.

But yes, MJ is ahead of Lebron. Again we agree on that, but you are just too dumb. Lebron can't be the biggest loser in nba history because he literally has 4 FMVPs. You are just saying nonsense. Lebron is the clear 2nd place guy, quit crying about it :lol.[/QUOTE]

FMVPs are worthless. The FMVPs that Curry did not get that you say no one should care about are actually the FMVPs that show how worthless they are.

Curry won a championship before Durant came. Durant got two FMVPs. Which gives the more telling idea of what would happen in the future: the previous championship or the FMVPs? The championship Curry had before of course. That's why despite Durant forming a superteam and Curry being stuck with a team that was last in the league Curry was still the first to win another championship.