The biggest LeBron hater on YouTube just put Kobe #2 on his top 10 list

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038429]No player was better than LeBron from 2009-2018.

2019 goes to Kawhi. LeBron got injured that year. 2020 goes to LeBron.

Curry was better than LeBron in 2021, but LeBron wasn't at his best anymore. He was 36 years old by then.

Hakeem was in his late 20's when Ewing had surpassed him as a player for a bit.[/QUOTE]

Curry was the better player from 2015 to the end of LeBron's prime.

In that period there was a stretch Curry was the MVP, a champion, then a unanimous MVP. LeBron was not better during that time. After that there was the 2016 finals when Curry wasn't at his best and then the Durant years where all sorts of stories were concocted to obscure Curry's continued greatness.

We can even benchmark LeBron's performance against a fairly similar common opponent to arrive at the same conclusion. 2018 LeBron is considered by some of his supporters to be as great as he had ever been. Those fans wax lyrical of his 2018 playoffs campaign which culminated with him taking down the 2018 Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals in 7 games before getting throttled by the Warriors in the Finals. Okay great. So what do we make of Curry taking down a more mature version of those Celtics in 6 games in the 2022 Finals? By 2022 Curry was about the same age LeBron was in 2018 and yet he ripped up a likely better version of those Celtics in the Finals in less games.

There isn't much evidence for LeBron's superiority. It's pretty much just loud opinion.

Says Curry was better than LeBron from 2015-2020, yet Curry didn't even win FMVP over KD in back to back years.:oldlol:

Hell, LeBron got more FMVP votes than Curry in 2015 despite losing.

I think everyone had Curry over LeBron during the 2016 season until the Finals happened. LeBron had a historic series while Curry layed an egg. 2017 & 2018 are easily LeBron. Especially in 2018 when LeBron had one of the best individual playoffs runs ever, we had not seen a player dominate the playoffs like that since peak Shaq.

Fact is LeBron outplayed Curry in every series they matched up against each other from 2015-2018

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038816]Says Curry was better than LeBron from 2015-2020, yet Curry didn't even win FMVP over KD in back to back years.:oldlol:

Hell, LeBron got more FMVP votes than Curry in 2015 despite losing.

[B]I think everyone had Curry over LeBron during the 2016 season until the Finals happened. LeBron had a historic series while Curry layed an egg.[/B] 2017 & 2018 are easily LeBron. Especially in 2018 when LeBron had one of the best individual playoffs runs ever, we had not seen a player dominate the playoffs like that since peak Shaq.

Fact is LeBron outplayed Curry in every series they matched up against each other from 2015-2018[/QUOTE]

Well, if that's how we're determining it, then I guess we have to say Dirk was better than Lebron in 2011.

And how do you come off saying that Lebron was the best in 2020 when he wasn't even the best player on his team?

Can't wait to hear this one. :lol

[QUOTE=Full Court;15038820]Well, if that's how we're determining it, then I guess we have to say Dirk was better than Lebron in 2011.

And how do you come off saying that Lebron was the best in 2020 when he wasn't even the best player on his team?

Can't wait to hear this one. :lol[/QUOTE]

2011 is the only year I would consider giving it to Dirk over LeBron.

The only push back would be that Dirk during the regular season arguably wasn't even top 5 level, he had better regular seasons years prior, '05-'07 was really his peak. But he did have a historic playoff run which gives him an argument.

The other years from 2009-2018 & 2020? Easily LeBron and it's not close.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038824]2011 is the only year I would consider giving it to Dirk over LeBron.

The only push back would be that Dirk during the regular season arguably wasn't even top 5 level, he had better regular seasons years prior, '05-'07 was really his peak. But he did have a historic playoff run which gives him an argument.

The other years from 2009-2018 & 2020? Easily LeBron and it's not close.[/QUOTE]

An argument can be made for 2009-2018, even though I disagree with it. You're out of your mind though if you actually think he was the best in 2020. AD carried him that year.

[QUOTE=Full Court;15038858]An argument can be made for 2009-2018, even though I disagree with it. You're out of your mind though if you actually think he was the best in 2020. AD carried him that year.[/QUOTE]

Is that why LeBron finished ahead of AD in MVP voting that year and won FMVP over him as well?

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038864]Is that why LeBron finished ahead of AD in MVP voting that year and won FMVP over him as well?[/QUOTE]

The MVP voting was nostalgia. Just like the Olympic MVP thing. Getting some votes doesn't mean it's actually deserved.


But back to 2011, since we're going by the finals and all, not only was Dirk better in 2011, but so was Wade, and so was Jason Terry.

Can't deny it. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Full Court;15038877]The MVP voting was nostalgia. Just like the Olympic MVP thing. Getting some votes doesn't mean it's actually deserved.


But back to 2011, since we're going by the finals and all, not only was Dirk better in 2011, but so was Wade, and so was Jason Terry.

Can't deny it. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

You always change subjects when I prove your points wrong. :oldlol:

Even Skip Bayless thought LeBron should have won MVP in 2020.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038880]You always change subjects when I prove your points wrong. :oldlol:

Even Skip Bayless thought LeBron should have won MVP in 2020.[/QUOTE]

You haven't proven anything. Bringing up a fellow Bronie fluffer's opinion is not "proof". Anyone who understands basketball knows AD carried the Lakers in 2020. Did you know that without AD, Bronie couldn't even make the playoffs? Truth.

And no matter how much you try to ignore it, my point about Jason Terry remains. No other all time great has ever had even close to as epic of a choke job as Lebron's in 2011. Which is why you ranking him #1 merely shows your bias.

If it helps you sleep at night.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15038782]Public polls mean absolutely jack shit. Jordan was voted the best college player of all-time and even as an ardent Jordan stan, that was ludicrous. You definitely can't even trust ex players these days so I dont want to hear about "guys who played against him said xxx". They've all got scores to settle or undue biases. Zeke calling Kareem the GOAT, Paul Pierce not having LeBron top 10, KG the same. Shaq having Kobe #2. The analysts also are full of it. Skip Bayless having LeBron 9th or Nick Wright putting Jordan 3rd.

Basically, you can't trust anyone or anything. People don't even believe what they say. But what is fact is that if you have Kobe #2 you're either a deranged stan, some casual who knows nothing about ball, trolling period, or influenced by some other bias. No exceptions.[/QUOTE]

This is the issue right here. You point out that people have a bias, we all do. You don't need to get that upset about it. He won about as much as anyone else and was arguably the most entertaining player to watch ever, so by default a lot of people will have him very high on their list. There is no objective all-time list. EVERYONE has a bias. The people that post on basketball forums might know more/have consumed more NBA and thus have more data to go off, but they will be biased one way or another. For people in my generation Kobe is easily top 5 when you factor in the entertainment aspect of his game if we look at the general public.

Skip Bayless and Nick Wright's job is to bait engagement. They say things they know will get the people riled up. Skip was onto this and did it before "ragebaiting" spread across the internet and the sports' world in general. It's ok for people to have Kobe as their #2 or even their #1 if that's how they feel about it.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038884]If it helps you sleep at night.[/QUOTE]

Great counterargument. :roll: That's what we call tapping out.

:lebronamazed:

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15038789]This is exactly the kind of deranged stuff I was talking about. I didnt even say where I rank Kobe and you're already frothing at the mouth. It isn't "splitting hairs" to say someone's top 15 as opposed to top 5. It's no exact science either. If someone has Magic 4th or 7th, I'm not mad. I can see the argument either way. But when someone puts Hakeem top 5 or LeBron outside the top 10, that's when someone loses all credibility. All I said was Kobe isnt #2. Not even close. There's no argument for him being top 5. But that's not disrespect. That's the problem, you put a guy 7th and someone's offended that you dared to say only 6 guys ever are better than him. Which is crazy.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't put Kobe 2nd all time, but I get why some might. Basketball is circumstantial. He ran the gauntlet for almost a full decade in the toughest conference arguably in league history with half of it coming in the height of the defensive era. In addition, he did it with good efficiency relative to his peers, against the best competition given his position (Wade, AI, Allen, TMac, Pierce, Vince, Rip, etc).

The game is a series of what ifs and context that almost always gets left out of the conversation but is always important to note.

Shaq is always placed higher than Hakeem but prime/peak Shaq got to play with peak Penny, Kobe, and Wade. That's context. Give Hakeem a triangle system with shooters like BJ, Paxson, Kerr, or Hodges, with a point forward in Pippen. He wins 6 rings too in that situation.

Gasol was gifted the triangle system alongside a top 10 player of all-time. If Gasol isn't traded to LA, we probably wouldn't remember him. That's context.

If Kareem doesn't play alongside two top 12-13 guards of all-time, where does he rank? Does he win a single title? KD has 2 titles, but on the strength of a superteam. How does his legacy look without that move, similarly LeBron to Miami? And how do other superstar players look if they did the same? Context almost always has to be factored in.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038816]Says Curry was better than LeBron from 2015-2020, yet Curry didn't even win FMVP over KD in back to back years.:oldlol:

Hell, LeBron got more FMVP votes than Curry in 2015 despite losing.

I think everyone had Curry over LeBron during the 2016 season until the Finals happened. LeBron had a historic series while Curry layed an egg. 2017 & 2018 are easily LeBron. Especially in 2018 when LeBron had one of the best individual playoffs runs ever, we had not seen a player dominate the playoffs like that since peak Shaq.

Fact is LeBron outplayed Curry in every series they matched up against each other from 2015-2018[/QUOTE]

Eh....this completely overlooks the defensive attention that Steph got during the 2017 and 2018 finals. It was one of the reasons KD was able to feast as much as he did.

This is why context matters.

[QUOTE=Full Court;15038920]Great counterargument. :roll: That's what we call tapping out.

:lebronamazed:[/QUOTE]

You never back up anything you say, "I'm right because I say so", that is basically you. I gave you reasons/facts for my arguments, you on the hand never do. It's the same old story.