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Michael Jordan will always be the greatest in Basketball
Babe Ruth will always be the greatest in Baseball
Wayne Gretzky will always be the greatest in Hockey
Ali will always be the greatest in Boxing
Each of those player did too much for their respective sport. MJ has so much influence on the game that it is not even funny. People still wear his jumpman and air jordan headband and shoes.
Do you see anyone wearing a Kobe headband?
What I love about this threads is that the OP usually disappears after the first posts.
I wonder if they get scared after the masacre they get, or they are just trolls looking at how people will react.
[QUOTE=Manute for Ever!]To be our age and have seen it, it almost physically hurts to reads **** like that, it is so insulting. It is not a matter of being trapped in the past, more a matter of how much the younger fans will never know.[/QUOTE]
very true. :applause:
but I'm not that old. yes I was already watching the NBA when it was in the Jordan era, but i was young then. :D
[QUOTE]I've said that about Kobe a couple of times. Lebron once (in the playoffs). Wade never.[/QUOTE]
I remember John Salley claiming that Magic Johnson was the greatest player he's ever seen, and someone asked him "What about Jordan."
John Salley simply replied..."Magic!!!"
So is Salley stupid because he didn't pick your precious? Of course not, he was old enough to see other legends play the game...the rules were different back then, so looking at statistics as the sole analysis is completely misleading. Of course there are hundreds of memorable moments from Jordan's career, just like there are from those other legends...most of you just can't be bothered to actually do some research about them so you simply stick with the obvious choice, a player you grew up watching. I'm not really blaming you, hard to argue against his success and accolades...it's just not as one sided as some of you like to think.
I'd say there are about 3-4 other players in the same tier as Michael Jordan, but to think no one should be compared to him is bias at its best.
Elders in my life, I'd say about two of them consider Jordan to be the greatest...everyone else leans toward Bird or Magic or Kareem or Hakeem Olajuwon. So I mean everyone has an opinion, I just think if you ask an older generation who have seen guys like Baylor, West, Wilt and Russell play...their opinions will be somewhat different.
[QUOTE=bagelred]Jordan was the greatest competitor I've ever seen in any sport ever. Period.
To those who think Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc. are better than Jordan, they have never actually seen Jordan play and watch his playoff series. If you did, you'd realize this is a foolish thread....
This is not making players in the past better than they were. Jordan was UNBELIEVABLE...literally. Ever time you watched him in a game, you would say, "Is this guy for real?"
I've said that about Kobe a couple of times. Lebron once (in the playoffs). Wade never.[/QUOTE]
Let's make a hypothetical statement... Take a 15 year old fan, they were born when the Dream Team was playing in Barcelona, when basketball meant something. The greatest collection of sporting takent EVER. A current nineth grade kid proceeded a stain on the sheets when the greatest team ever assembled ever played. I still have my Jordan and Pippen Dream Team Jerseys. Being league Leader in this or that didn't matter, being the first athletic billionaire didn't matter, only winning mattered and that is all that should matter.
[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]
This right here shows that you have to be 8 years old. Come back when you learn some more about basketball and let grown folks talk. Run along now.[/QUOTE]
obviously you dont read too good. learn to read with both eyes and mind open son.
[QUOTE]
Well when someone gets 6 finals MVP, and the highest scoring average in all the season, playoffs and finals and the highest PER average along with the most seasons of 30+ PER then we can have a debate.[/QUOTE]
"It's his mentality and charisma that sets him apart. He spread the winning attitude amongst his teammates. I doubt his teammates would be as good as they were without him in the picture. People keep saying he has great teammates, that's why he won so much championship. Well, I think his teammates are great largely because of him."
Again, what MJ can do physically, Lebron or Kobe can do. They just doesn't have his mentality and charisma. At least not yet.
MJ's teammates are great because of his mental qualities. He just elevates everyone's game in the team. MJ's team was really good largely because of him --> his number was great largely because his team was really good. It was interconnected.
[QUOTE=kgisbigticket][B]Michael Jordan will always be the greatest in Basketball[/B]
Babe Ruth will always be the greatest in Baseball
Wayne Gretzky will always be the greatest in Hockey
Ali will always be the greatest in Boxing
Each of those player did too much for their respective sport. MJ has so much influence on the game that it is not even funny. People still wear his jumpman and air jordan headband and shoes.
Do you see anyone wearing a Kobe headband?[/QUOTE]
I agree with the comment in bold (at least for a long, long time)
But not with other three.
I think due to the fact of weight training, etc. (not steroids:( ) a player will come along, if he hasn't already, who will be better than The Babe.
Gretzky has the longevity records, but it is arguable that Lemieux at his peak was better. Much bigger and more dominant physically, defensively and very comparable in their best offensive seasons. I'd probably take Gretz, by a VERY slim margin, but I feel that a player will come along soon who will be better. The ceiling is very reachable. (I played hockey for 20 years, college, etc. for those with credibility issues)
Ali to me wasn't the greatest boxer. I think by most accounts from experts Sugar Ray Robinson was pound for pound. Yes, I would take the Liston version Ali over any heavyweight though. And would put him top 5 boxers ever. He was the greatest sports figure though as a personality IMO though.
Not likely to be topped there.
But yes, the gap between MJ and the rest in Basketball is greater than that of any other sport. (Golf would be second with Tiger IMO)
[QUOTE=BIZARRO]Truly.
I mean, I'm sure all generations go through it, where they favor players of the past they remember. I mean I'm sure some people from NY in the '50's still think Mickey Mantle was the greatest or that Jim Brown was the greatest in Cleveland.
That being said; just because I thought Joe Montana was the best QB I've ever seen for example, doesn't mean that Tom Brady isn't or won't be better. Or that Albert Pujols will be better than Lou Gehrig or whatever.
I mean, I feel most rational people are pretty open to players coming along who are better. It's only natural.
Except...
for Michael Jordan. To me, he is the exception. I will NEVER forget how great he was, because the whole time in the late '80's (and early '90's to an extent) I kept saying to myself and friends, don't EVER forget just how great this guy is and exactly what you are watching.
The scary thing about MJ is that the words on that statue outside the UC, with the best there ever was/will be, are kind of true.
I mean, I am almost positive some gentic freak will come along and be better. But it is going to take SO much to do it. I don't see it happening for the longest time.
I mean, MJ is just a couple cuts above any athlete I've ever seen. Physically, but even moreso mentally. :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
That piece you wrote a couple of days ago summed it up. Jordan games were an event. You summed it up perfectly and I want to personally thank you for bringing that feeling back for the few minutes it took to read your post.
[QUOTE=iamgine]obviously you dont read too good. learn to read with both eyes and mind open son.
"It's his mentality and charisma that sets him apart. He spread the winning attitude amongst his teammates. I doubt his teammates would be as good as they were without him in the picture. People keep saying he has great teammates, that's why he won so much championship. Well, I think his teammates are great largely because of him."
Again, what MJ can do physically, Lebron or Kobe can do. They just doesn't have his mentality and charisma. At least not yet.
MJ's teammates are great because of his mental qualities. He just elevates everyone's game in the team. MJ's team was really good largely because of him --> his number was great largely because his team was really good. It was interconnected.[/QUOTE]
Not only that, but MJ could win titles without a dominant big man because MJ had the efficiency of a dominant big man. In fact, his effiency was greater than Shaq and Wilt as indicated by him having the highest PER.
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/PER_career.html[/url]
1 Michael Jordan 27.91
2 Shaquille O'Neal 27.63
3 David Robinson 26.18
4 Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
5 Bob Pettit* 25.34
6 Tim Duncan 25.17
7 Charles Barkley* 24.63
8 Neil Johnston* 24.62
9 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
Your Top 9 are all big men except MJ. Just goes to show how good he really was.
[QUOTE=Phenomenon]I remember John Salley claiming that Magic Johnson was the greatest player he's ever seen, and someone asked him "What about Jordan."
John Salley simply replied..."Magic!!!"
So is Salley stupid because he didn't pick your precious? Of course not, he was old enough to see other legends play the game...the rules were different back then, so looking at statistics as the sole analysis is completely misleading. Of course there are hundreds of memorable moments from Jordan's career, just like there are from those other legends...most of you just can't be bothered to actually do some research about them so you simply stick with the obvious choice, a player you grew up watching. I'm not really blaming you, hard to argue against his success and accolades...it's just not as one sided as some of you like to think.
I'd say there are about 3-4 other players in the same tier as Michael Jordan, but to think no one should be compared to him is bias at its best.
Elders in my life, I'd say about two of them consider Jordan to be the greatest...everyone else leans toward Bird or Magic or Kareem or Hakeem Olajuwon. So I mean everyone has an opinion, I just think if you ask an older generation who have seen guys like Baylor, West, Wilt and Russell play...their opinions will be somewhat different.[/QUOTE]
Well, all you'd have to do is ask Magic, and he'd tell you Jordan.
[QUOTE]Well, all you'd have to do is ask Magic, and he'd tell you Jordan.[/QUOTE]
Well, really? :oldlol:
Because Magic Johnson more then once said Larry Bird was the greatest player he's ever seen. Either he's completely contradicting himself or you're just making stuff up.
But I'll gladly see a link from you to back that statement up.
funniest thing about these threads, which pop up all the time, is:
A - the overwhelming evidence that jordan at least has an equal argument to anybody else for goat being ignored by young posters who didn't really watch him using theories that they've concocted that fly in the face of every top sports analyst of the last decade, as though nobody on the planet is as smart as their 13 year old ass.
B - the bizarre way that it's almost always lakers fan who side against mike - and not kobe fans really, but honest to god lakers fans. magic fans especially. which is fine, but odd. i almost never hear celtics fan toting bird or russell or phili fans on wilt.
anyway. even if you never saw him play a game, if 10 scoring titles, 6 finals mvps, 9 all-d teams, and one title for every season in which he played with another all-star doesn't at least merit consideration against anybody else you can think of, then you're just being obtuse. i wholeheartedly agree with really looking into your selection as deeply as possible and not just riding the popular wave to a conculsion, but writing off the accepted goat because you want to be different is just as stupid as accepting him because you want to fit in.
[QUOTE=BIZARRO]Well, all you'd have to do is ask Magic, and he'd tell you Jordan.[/QUOTE]
That's not a slight at Magic, however, as he is in my top 3. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dupree-team_x.htm[/url]
[quote]Magic Johnson says there is no debate.
[B]"Michael is the greatest player ever[/B], and [B]Bill Russell is the greatest winner ever and always will be[/B]," says Johnson, who joins Jordan in the backcourt on the first team.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=iamgine]
Again, what MJ can do physically, Lebron or Kobe can do.[/quote]
Where do you get that idea? Jordan was pretty clearly superior to Kobe athletically, and has athletic advantages on Lebron as well (though Lebron has some on him, which makes the matchup as overall athletes a closer one than between MJ/Kobe). For example, Jordan was far quicker laterally, more explosive (first step, change of pace, acceleration etc.), and a better two footed leaper and leaper off a hop step. Far better body control/coordination in general than Lebron. Far better reflexes. Other stuff is arguable (for example, I think Jordan was faster end to end, but it's arguable either way), but the above is not.