Jordan 69 pt game vs Kobe 81 point game

"Well the NBA is in great hands, but if I had to pick the single greatest player on the planet, I take Kobe Bryant, without hesitation."

MJ knows what's up!!!!!!

[QUOTE=millencolin735]Now it's true that era of basketball was far more difficult to score in but Jordan was absolutely not being abused, I've seen the game quite a few times and they played straight up on MJ with Ehlo (who he always abused) and Mark Price. Even with the handchecking rules players of today would have theyre way with those players.

Now obviously Jordan had the better allaround game but c'mon it's 8 freakin 1 points, to many of you guys act like it's just a walk in the park. I think it's a shame how so many people try to discredit it when they should just sit back and admire it for what it is, a damn great accomplishment.[/QUOTE]

It's because people have the need to take things away from Kobe.

If I got a nickle for every time someone said that any other star guard could win rings with Shaq I'd be a rich man. However, you don't hear the same about Wade for example.
It's just that. People hate Kobe so they use double standards and what if excuses. It's utterly pathetic.

I'm a huge Jordan fan...

And I know the 81 point game is a way bigger accomplishment. Kobe wasn't playing chopped liver. But he was MAKING them look like chopped liver, but the defense wasn't THAT bad. He wasn't playing pre-schoolers. He was facing the same caliber defense, that Mike faced to notch 69 (in overtime), against guards that weren't even close enough to contend with Michael's jumper, or athletic ability. Kobe went up against people who were of similar athletic ability, quickness, and length. These were modern PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYERS. No excuse in the world can be made for that accomplishment. If you try to diminish that, you simply aren't a fan of the game of basketball. And you are just hating on a player, and a ridiculous all-time performance, for the sake of hating.

The scary part is, 62 in 33 minutes is a better accomplishment than both of those. Kobe had 51 in 3 quarters, the game he scored 81. Kobe had 62 points, outscoring the entire Mavericks roster, through 3 quarters of play. That is disgusting its so good. Imagine if he played the fourth, and had another 30 point quarter or more? He could've exceeded 90 points. His effeciency in both games was ri-god damn-diculous. Inside. Outside. Beyond area code range. It's all there. Seriously, both performances out due Jordan's 69.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6l7MHr4Wag[/url]

This is the video of Jordan's 69 points.

As far as the comparison goes, I think it's clear that Kobe's 81 in 42 minutes were more impressive than Jordan's 69 in 50. Jordan, OTOH, had the better all-around performance, with 10 rebounds and 4 assists more than Kobe. If you adjust playing times, Kobe's performance comes closer, but I don't really like these specific adjustments, so I won't assume things.

IMO, the best individual Reg.Season performance since 1990 was that Karl Malone's game against the Bucks in 1990, where he had 61 points on 21/26 shots and 19/23 FT's, 18 rebounds and 3 steals in 33 minutes.

Im too lazy to look it up, but I think in like 2001 or so Shaq had a 61 and 20 game on his birthday. I would probably give that the best single all around game ever.

[QUOTE=KillaBee]Im too lazy to look it up, but I think in like 2001 or so Shaq had a 61 and 20 game on his birthday. I would probably give that the best single all around game ever.[/QUOTE]

It was agaisnt the then hopeless clippers and he got infinite passes from his teammates because it was "on his birthday". It was kinda watered-down just like how D-Rob edged him in ppg by scoring 71 points in that one last game of season 95.

[quote]Kobe went up against people who were of similar athletic ability, quickness, and length. These were modern PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYERS. No excuse in the world can be made for that accomplishment.[/quote]
Um Kobe went against MoPete for maybe like 15 minutes of the game cause he was always in foul trouble. you know who was guarding him for most of that? Nobody good, I'll tell you that much. He was rarely doubleteamed. It's a difference of 12 points while Jordan wasn't statpadding at the end; the game went down to the wire, and Jordan had the 18 boards and 6 assists to boot.

I can't speak to whether the Cavs defense was better than the Raptors defense but I'm betting it was. The Cavs were a playoff team; the Raps were near the bottom of the league.

[quote]OMG, a PLAYOFF team guys...a PLAYOFF team, I recall Kobe dropping 62 points in THREE quarters on the western conference championsions last season...that's more impressive then 81 or 69 by Jordan to me.[/quote]
I agree with this. 62 in 3 quarters against the best team in the West is absolutely phenominal. The Mavs had/have one of the best defenses in the league, and unlike the Raps, had 2 very good shotblockers in the middle. Kobe was on pace for over 80 in that one too, but had already outscored the conference champs BY HIMSELF after 3 quarters so he didn't even need to play.

[QUOTE=04mzwach]Jordan is better than Kobe. Seriously, how many times do we have to go through this Kobe 81 and Jordan 69 business? We all know that Jordan would have 200 points in a game or something like that compared to Kobe's measley 81 points in a game with versus one of the ****tiest teams in the entire universe on top of that and with Jordan facing the best team with basketball abilities in equivilance to God.
[/QUOTE]

yes, jordan is the greatest player ever. but wtf does jordan being better than kobe have to do with who had the better game?

If mj had gotten his stats in regulation I would agree it was a better overall game. However he had 5 EXTRA MINUTES to further increase them. Can we find kobe's stats per minute, extrapolate what he would done had the game gone into overtime, and then compare them to mj's game? :rolleyes:

michael jordan's performance is more empressive.... Kobe's just number (stat) impressive

handcheck rules...

if MJ played with handchecks today, he'll average 40ppg

rules changed now cause lotta these new young cats cant score, the young players get convinced by the money-making agents that thy can turn pro, but the fact is they're not ready, many dunno how to shoot a jumper and too skinny for the pros

the points scored every game is lower n lower by the season, so they made the handcheck rules to rise the points scored in games...

sh!t, i think 0 points and 18 rebounds is already impressive enough for a 6'6" guard.

[QUOTE=ManUtd]"Well the NBA is in great hands, but if I had to pick the single greatest player on the planet, I take Kobe Bryant, without hesitation."

MJ knows what's up!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Except he never said "Well the NBA is in great hands" or "without hesitation" in fact you got the whole god damn quote wrong.

[quote]Kobe's just number (stat) impressive[/quote]
I'm more impressed by 69/18/6 in a nailbiting overtime game against a playoff team than I am 81/nothing/nothing with about 15 of those points coming when the game was long over against a cellar dweller with some of the worst D in the nation.

Hell, a guard getting 18 rebounds and 6 assists, without the points, is one of the most impressive things that can happen IMO. how many guards have gotten 18 boards? SFs even?

[QUOTE=geeWiz15]
I can't speak to whether the Cavs defense was better than the Raptors defense but I'm betting it was. The Cavs were a playoff team; the Raps were near the bottom of the league.[/QUOTE]
Umm, the defenders Kobe actually faced were better than the defenders Jordan faced. The Cavs were a playoff team at that time, but that doesn't mean Jordan faced better caliber defenders. Jordan was guarded that game by Ehlo (whom he routinely torched, and couldn't match up physically), he was guarded by little / un-athletic Mark Price. Think about that. In today's league, that would be like Kobe getting iso's all game + overtime agains Steve Nash and Bobby Sura. Instead Kobe faced Mo Pete, Jalen Rose, and combos with other athletic players, splitting double teams with behind the back dribbles like it was his job. Kobe's 81 is far more impressive. Not as complete, all-around, but 81 points, and single handedly leading a team back from a deficit and scoring 55 in ONE HALF is a more amazing game than 69 and 18 in 50 minutes of play.

[QUOTE=Money 23]Umm, the defenders Kobe actually faced were better than the defenders Jordan faced. The Cavs were a playoff team at that time, but that doesn't mean Jordan faced better caliber defenders. Jordan was guarded that game by Ehlo (whom he routinely torched, and couldn't match up physically), he was guarded by little / un-athletic Mark Price. [/QUOTE]

Jordan was guarded by Mark Price on a switch for approximately one possession in that game. He was primarily guarded by Ehlo (6'7") and Winston Bennett (6'7"). You've said this twice, and I'm not sure why you're repeating it since it's false. I also like how you act like Jordan wasn't doubled that game. :hammerhead: And I like how you compare Price's defense (even though he didn't guard Jordan, as we've established) to Nash's, even though Price was light years ahead as a defender.

Btw, is Jalen "I can't get off the ground" Rose really that much more athletic than Ehlo? Maybe 5-6 years ago he was. Lemme guess: because he's black, right? :rolleyes:


Btw, Cleveland was ranked 9th out of 27 teams in defense in 1990, with a defensive rating of 106.7 (giving up 102.9 ppg), whereas Toronto was ranked 28th out of 30 teams, with a defensive rating of 112.5 (giving up 104.0 ppg). That's quite a difference.

The Cavs in 89-90 were the 9th most efficient defensive team in the league. Toronto in 05-06? 28th :roll:

Only a true moron(or a groupie) would think Kobe went up against better D.

69/18/6/4/1 against a playoff team and a FAAAAAR better defensive team >>>>> 81/3 stls against a sh*tty squad that plays no D.

[quote]Instead Kobe faced Mo Pete, Jalen Rose, and combos with other athletic players,[/quote]

Jalen Rose :roll:. The guy who'd make everybody's Worst Defenders of the Post-2000 Era" List. I saw 2 years of this bum in Chicago and he is without a doubt the worst perimeter defender I've seen this decade. He isn't athletic either. Also, who the heck are these "other athletic players" and if they're such a big deal then why were the Raptors the 3rd worst defensive team in the league last season? And since when does athleticism = automatically better/good D? Do you consider LeBron a good defender?

I also find it funny how in the Hill vs. James thread you were constantly talking abt how today's league is [i]easier[/i] and Grant did it in a "much better and tougher league". Yet no such talk this time around. How come?

You also need to go and watch the game if you think MJ wasn't constantly doubled and trapped that night.

I wouldn't say Price is light years ahead of Nash's defense. Probably better to an extent, but definetely not light years. Explain how he is 'light years' better? Are you one of those fans who presumes EVERYTHING was better back in the day? Or do you just hate Kobe?

And I realize Jordan was doubled that game. I didn't have to say it, because it was known. People were acting like Kobe wasn't, and that his defenders were mince meat compared to those backcourt Cavs players who were put on Jordan. When at least, they were about equal. So you can't use that as a means to diminish Kobe's performance. The reason why the Cavs had a good defense, was their athletic big men. Not because of their guard's defense. That's why Jordan routinely torched them, and why in 1993 they went to get the supposed "Jordan Stopper" in Gerald Wilkins. But Craig Ehlo, and Winston Bennett aren't near as athletic as the players Kobe faced for his 81. They can't contest with shots, and use explosive innate abilities to help them play defense. I have both games on tape, and it isn't even close. I'm not slighting Jordan. That performance was crazy. Yet, not near as crazy as 81 points. Better all-around game, in an extra 5 - 10 minutes compared to what Kobe played? Sure. Which is all the more reason, why 81 points is ridiculous. Second most points in a game in NBA HISTORY. And it was done by a 6'6 shooting guard, shooting mostly perimeter and long range bombs. That takes a hell of alot of stamina to get your legs into long shots, and to shoot as many times as he did, at such a great percentage. It was nuts. I think Kobe scored something like 20 points in the last 4 or 5 minutes of the game. It was incredible. As was Jordan's feat. Just not AS amazing, due to the context. In my opinion, at least. And as we know, we all have opinions. Plus, I don't think Jordan's 69 is his best performance...

LOL Loki once again, a total 90s NBA library.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]I also find it funny how in the Hill vs. James thread you were constantly talking abt how today's league is [i]easier[/i] and Grant did it in a "much better and tougher league". Yet no such talk this time around. How come?[/QUOTE]
It is a more difficult league then. Hands down. But that doesn't make me believe 69 points in 50 minutes, was more impressive than 81 in 41 minutes. Because I have tapes of both games, and can compare them. The Cavs weren't a physical team that knocked your block off. They were a finesse team, and were good defenders not because of their permiter, but because of their interior. It wasn't like Jordan was being defensed by great permiter defenders that game against Cleveland. There is a reason he routinely made them his b1tch. And why they searched desperately for years, for an athletic two guard who could at least contend with his athletic ability, let alone his game. In comes Gerald Wilkins in 1992 - 1993.

[QUOTE]You also need to go and watch the game if you think MJ wasn't constantly doubled and trapped that night.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I've watched it. Recently actually. And I never said he wasn't double and tripple teamed. But when it comes down to it numbers wise, 81 to me is more impressive than 69 in an overtime win. 12 more points, in about ten less minutes of play. Going against double teams, and triple teams that Jordan faced, and shooting long range bombs ... which takes a real toll on your legs. I just find 81 more amazing than his Jordan's 69 performance. And as I've said, I've seen better Jordan games than his 69 / 18 in Overtime.

[QUOTE=Money 23]I wouldn't say Price is light years ahead of Nash's defense. Probably better to an extent, but definetely not light years. Explain how he is 'light years' better? Are you one of those fans who presumes EVERYTHING was better back in the day? Or do you just hate Kobe? [/quote]

How does me noting that Price's defense was way better than Nash's (your analogy, not mine) make me a "Kobe hater" considering that Steve Nash didn't guard Kobe in that game? Price was simply a much better defender; I've seen both of them. Price was more fundamental, gave more effort, and was gritty to boot. Nash is...well...Nash.

[quote]And I realize Jordan was doubled that game. I didn't have to say it, because it was known. People were acting like Kobe wasn't, and that his defenders were mince meat compared to those backcourt Cavs players who were put on Jordan.[/quote]

Did I personally say that? Kobe was doubled (not as much as some fans would have you believe, but he was), but the actual quality of the defenses in question can be viewed objectively, as I've tried to show you. As to individual defenders, I really don't think that Jalen Rose is much more athletic than Craig Ehlo. Don't know what else to say except that I think you're simultaneously overestimating the athleticism of Toronto's defenders while underestimating that of Cleveland's defenders.

[quote]When at least, they were about equal. So you can't use that as a means to diminish Kobe's performance.[/quote]

I have never -- as in "not once" -- tried to diminish Kobe's performance. Not when it happened, and not in the intervening months.

[quote] Second most points in a game in NBA HISTORY. And it was done by a 6'6 shooting guard, shooting mostly perimeter and long range bombs. That takes a hell of alot of stamina to get your legs into long shots, and to shoot as many times as he did, at such a great percentage. It was nuts. [/quote]

I agree.

[quote]we all have opinions. Plus, I don't think Jordan's 69 is his best performance...[/QUOTE]

Neither do I.

I think the MAvs game was better because of the quality of team but I like Kobe's 81. The reason is there a was a moment of time in the game where you just saw Kobe say, "screw this im not going to lose to Toronto" They go from being down 20 to up 20 in mere matter of minutes. You could see the fear and helplessness in the defenders faces, Kobe took their hearts. Thats why I liked Kobe's game. You can actually pick out the moment where he rips each Toronto defenders heart out.

[QUOTE=Money 23]And I realize Jordan was doubled that game. I didn't have to say it, because it was known.[/quote]

Ummm, you said MJ going up against Ehlo/Price was the equivalent of Kobe FACING [B]SINGLE[/b] coverage against Sura/Nash.

[quote]People were acting like Kobe wasn't, and that his defenders were mince meat compared to those backcourt Cavs players who were put on Jordan.[/quote]

Compared to the Cavs the Raptors are indeed mince meat defensively. 9th best versus 3rd worst. Think about it.

[quote]The reason why the Cavs had a good defense, was their athletic big men. Not because of their guard's defense.[/quote]

Defense is a TEAM game. The Cavs didn't have an intimidating presence in the paint who you can say held the team together. Nobody ala a TD/Shaq/Hakeem/D-Rob.

[quote]But Craig Ehlo, and Winston Bennett aren't near as athletic as the players Kobe faced for his 81.[/quote]

Once again, who are these athletic players Kobe faced while going up against 3rd ****tiest defensive team in the league? Rose? :roll:. Peterson is a decent athlete, nothing more. The Raptors don't have anyone else in the back court(around Kobe's height) who I'd term as athletic.

[quote]I have both games on tape, and it isn't even close.[/quote]

So, 69/18/6/4/1 [i]isn't even close[/i] to 81/nothing because MJ didn't go up against a 27-win, 3rd worst defensive team in the league that featured IMO the worst perimeter defender of the post-2000 era in Jalen Rose(who guarded Kobe quite a lot that night). Is that the reason why it [i]isn't even close[/i] to you?

[QUOTE=Money 23]It is a more difficult league then. Hands down. But that doesn't make me believe 69 points in 50 minutes, was more impressive than 81 in 41 minutes.[/quote]

The question wasn't 69 in 50 vs. 81 in 42. The question on the first page is asking which is the better [b]GAME[/b]? 69/18/6/4/1 against a playoff squad that also happens to be the 9th best defensive team in the league is clearly superior in my eyes.

[quote]It wasn't like Jordan was being defensed by great permiter defenders that game against Cleveland. There is a reason he routinely made them his b1tch. And why they searched desperately for years, for an athletic two guard who could at least contend with his athletic ability, let alone his game. In comes Gerald Wilkins in 1992 - 1993.[/quote]

The Cavs DID have an athletic 2-guard in Ron Harper. He fared no better than Ehlo or Wilkins. MJ simply liked playing against Cleveland. They were one of the few teams who used to guard him 1-on-1(they smartened up, eventually) and MJ obviously took it as an insult and used to go extra hard at them.

[quote]And as I've said, I've seen better Jordan games than his 69 / 18 in Overtime.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I think most people who've seen a lot of MJ will tell you that's not his best game. Even though he was near perfect at all aspects of the game that night.

[QUOTE]So, 69/18/6/4/1 isn't even close to 81/nothing because MJ didn't go up against a 27-win[/QUOTE]

Isn't even close? :confusedshrug: Kobe had 6 rebounds and 3 steals...but I guess that's nothing...I guess since Jordan had 18 rebounds (did Cavs even have a big man on that team, a good post presence who can grab them rebounds?)...does mean that Kobe didn't do anything but score...last I checked 6 rebounds and 3 steals a game is more then 95% of SGs production a game in this league.
I don't know about you guys but this kid lost every credibility, I see people complain about Kobe groupies yet this is probably the biggest Jordan homer I've seen in my life. I can understand if Jordan impressed you more, I'm fine with you saying he had the better all around game because he did...but claiming it ain't [B]even close[/B] is a case of unbelievable denial.

If you want to play that game buddy...Kobe sh*ts on Jordan's overtime win with his 69 points/18 rebounds when Kobe he OUTSCORED a western conference champions by HIMSELF aftter 3 quarters...you're just mad that Kobe could probably have already 3-4 games over 69 throught FIRST half of his career...and being a 2nd option for 8 years of his career.

[QUOTE=West-Side]...but claiming it ain't [B]even close[/B] is a case of unbelievable denial.[/quote]

So you're saying Money 23(apparently a big MJ fan) is in denial? He's the one who said 69/18/6/4/1 isn't even close to 81.

[QUOTE=West-Side]Isn't even close? :confusedshrug: Kobe had 6 rebounds and 3 steals...but I guess that's nothing...I guess since Jordan had 18 rebounds (did Cavs even have a big man on that team, a good post presence who can grab them rebounds?)...[/QUOTE]

Actually, Cleveland had 3 big men over 8 rebounds per game that year: Nance (8.3 rpg), Daugherty (9.1 rpg), and Williams (8.1 rpg). Toronto only had Bosh at 9.2 and then no other player above 6.4 rpg (Villanueva). So I'm not sure why you'd make that comment...

I just made a big post but it didn't proceed...not bothering to retype it. I talk about about how 9 RPG in those days aren't that impressive, since today 13 RPG would clinch you a rebounding title, while back in the day dozen of players had that mark in the league. I'm pretty sure Bosh would get well over 12 RPG in those days, deep down Loki knows it too.

I'm out.

mj's was better. 69, 18, 6 oh my goddd! they showed this game on espn classic today.

All numbers put aside Kobes performance was simply more impressive because of the complete momentum swing it caused. MJ needed OT to win the game, Kobe brought back the lackers from -20 to lead them to a near 20 point victory.
Also, in Kobe's 81 game Kwame and Odom each got 10 rebounds, Mihm had 8 and George got 7. MJ's game? 2nd leading rebounder was Pippen with 8, and the two big men, Cartwright and and Ho Grant each got only 5. Of course MJ would get many rebounds with both big men not producing.
Not that it was not a great rebounding performance, but you have to put it into context.

well naturally mj's 69 was a better overall better game. it gets bigger props because it was a playoff game as well.

but for some who try to underestimate kobe's performance, just aren't fans of the guy...(what a surprise)

there was a few articles w/quotes from other players of the league after kobe's 81. a few of them noted that they'd have trouble shooting 46 times in a game. it takes a lot of conditioning to shoot that many shots. they noted their legs and arms would be very tired.

kobe did this in what, 42 mins? and he was VERY efficient in the process.

just accept that that scoring 81 is hard. no one but wilt out did it and he took just a regulation game to pull it off.

some of you touched on the 62 againt the mavs. his 56 point game in 2002 against memphis was another game where he did it in 3 quarters and wasn't needed in the 4th and he was very efficient in that one as well.

now 69/18 for mj...the 18 boards is a very remarkable accomplishment as well. that pushes his game over kobe's.

It wasn't a playoff game.

[QUOTE=jan803]well naturally mj's 69 was a better overall better game. it gets bigger props because it was a playoff game as well.
[/QUOTE]

it was NOT in the playoffs. Is that so hard to understand?

[QUOTE=Loki]How does me noting that Price's defense was way better than Nash's (your analogy, not mine) make me a "Kobe hater" considering that Steve Nash didn't guard Kobe in that game? Price was simply a much better defender; I've seen both of them. Price was more fundamental, gave more effort, and was gritty to boot. Nash is...well...Nash.[/QUOTE]
Just wasn't sure, that's all. That's why I asked, and didn't label. Plus, I do think Price is a better defender than Steve Nash. But I definetely wouldn't label it as "light years". You know the deal though. Price and Nash are virtually the same player in my opinion, except Price faced and played against way better defense.

BTW, Price guarded him on more than one play. I remember specifically him making Price fall, on a turn around fadeaway where he shook Price, and he fell to the ground. I also remember Jordan hitting a long perimter 3 on him. And he guarded him on a few more plays.
[QUOTE]Did I personally say that?[/QUOTE]
No, you didn't. But at the same time I'm like defending myself from 2-3 people. Naturally I lumped you in with them, and I apologize. I was addressing like 2 or 3 of you all at once. Know what I mean?

[QUOTE]Kobe was doubled (not as much as some fans would have you believe, but he was)[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Actually, he wasn't doubled till the 4th quarter. But I also think the 4th quarter of that game was his highest scoring quarter. But definetely, he wasn't doubled until the 4th. I mean they ran players at him, but the double team wasn't intense until the later stages. And they were doing i on the perimeter.

[QUOTE]but the actual quality of the defenses in question can be viewed objectively, as I've tried to show you. As to individual defenders, I really don't think that Jalen Rose is much more athletic than Craig Ehlo.[/QUOTE]
Jalen Rose might not be, but Mo Pete is.

[QUOTE]Don't know what else to say except that I think you're simultaneously overestimating the athleticism of Toronto's defenders while underestimating that of Cleveland's defenders.[/QUOTE]
I could be, that's also why I also settled on saying they were equal. Because if you watch the game, Jordan isn't facing some difficult defense like the Knicks, or Pistons who gave Jordan bigger fits than other teams. Cavs may have been good statistically on defense against other teams, but this is a team that never gave Jordan troubles, individually. Toronto wasn't a good defensive team either. That's why they were on a level playing field as far as defense they faced, goes.

[QUOTE]I have never -- as in "not once" -- tried to diminish Kobe's performance. Not when it happened, and not in the intervening months.[/QUOTE]
Ok, cool. Can't say the same for some of the people in this thread. You'd have to have your basketball fan membership revoked if you didn't dig, or acknowledge the craziness that was this game. If you try to diminish this game at all, you aren't a fan. Even if you don't like the guy, which is a vast majority of people, you have to give him props for this game.

[QUOTE]I agree.[/QUOTE]
Good, smart man.

[QUOTE]Neither do I.[/QUOTE]
Double true. What is your favorite Mike performance? Personally, I don't know if it is my favorite... but the game where he dropped like 35 in the half of Game 1 of the 1992 NBA Finals... he could've dropped a ridiculous amount of points in an NBA FINALS GAME!!! He realistically, the way he was playing ... and shooting the 3. Jordan could've got to 80 in that game. And I say that w/o hesitation, and w/o pity.

[QUOTE=jan803]
just accept that that scoring 81 is hard. no one but wilt out did it and he took just a regulation game to pull it off.[/QUOTE]
If you have to ask someone to admit that is difficult, there is no use in talking about sports with them.

I still feel 81 points, 6 rebounds, and 3 steals in 41 minutes is more amazing than Jordan's 69 points, 18 rebounds, and 3 steals in 50 minutes of basketball. That 12 points is alot, given the amount of playing time the two played. They played a similar defense. You can't use competition as a means to dis-credit, and/or praise either, because watching the games both Jordan and Kobe sliced through a similar permiter defense. Kobe didn't have those massive 18 rebounds, but that also wasn't what the team needed to win the game. And Kobe scored all those points, because that is what his team needed to win.

Don't take it as I am dis-crediting MJ. That's my man. That's my favorite player of all time. The GOAT, imo. And he was a better player than Kobe Bryant. But that 62 in 3, and 81, are two of the greatest scoring games in history. Both sitting right behind Wilt's 100. That 62 in 3, against the second best team in the league, and one of the better defenses in the league was crazy. A much more thrilling feat (IMO) than Kobe's 81. That game, realistically, Kobe could've put up around 90 points if he stayed that hot, and played the rest of the game out. Kind of frightening if you think about it. PJ said he had never seen a scoring outburtst like that. He said he never saw someone drop 62 points in only 3 quarters of play. It was crazy. That's a real life video game, right there.

[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]it was NOT in the playoffs. Is that so hard to understand?[/QUOTE]

oh, then i was thinking of another game of mj's.

still doesn't change what i said about his rebounds. it was why it was the better overall game.

[QUOTE=Money 23]BTW, Price guarded him on more than one play. [B]I remember specifically him making Price fall, on a turn around fadeaway where he shook Price, and he fell to the ground.[/B] I also remember Jordan hitting a long perimter 3 on him. And he guarded him on a few more plays.[/quote]

That's the play I recalled as well. I honestly don't recall any others, though he might have hit a 3 on Price as well. To say that Jordan was guarded by "Price and Ehlo" is misleading, however. Like I said, he was guarded by Ehlo and Bennett for at least 90-95% of the game.


[quote]Jalen Rose might not be, but Mo Pete is.[/quote]

Yeah, but it's marginal -- it's not like Mo Pete is TMac, after all.

[quote]Double true. What is your favorite Mike performance? Personally, I don't know if it is my favorite... but the game where he dropped like 35 in the half of Game 1 of the 1992 NBA Finals... he could've dropped a ridiculous amount of points in an NBA FINALS GAME!!! He realistically, the way he was playing ... and shooting the 3. Jordan could've got to 80 in that game. And I say that w/o hesitation, and w/o pity.[/QUOTE]

I don't think he could've gotten 80 that game (or even 65+), but there's no question he could have had 40-45 points that first half. Few people know this (people who don't have the game on tape, that is :D), but Jordan scored 35 in the first half while [i]sitting out about 7 1/2 minutes[/i]. That's insane.

Just being in the playoffs doesnt make you a good defensive team. Look at the Suns.

[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]it was NOT in the playoffs. Is that so hard to understand?[/QUOTE]
It wasn't, but it might as well have been. It definitely had playoff-level intensity. The Cavs were trying desperately to get into the playoffs, so it was a key game for them.

In other words, this wasn't some lackadaisical mid-season game.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6l7MHr4Wag"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6l7MHr4Wag[/URL]

That's every one of his baskets from the 69-point game. As you can see, Price is on him (on a switch where Jordan rolled into the post, mind you) for only one play, and then comes to help on the baseline on another jumper as Jordan beat Ehlo baseline.

[QUOTE=Loki]
I don't think he could've gotten 80 that game (or even 65+), but there's no question he could have had 40-45 points that first half. Few people know this (people who don't have the game on tape, that is :D), but Jordan scored 35 in the first half while [i]sitting out about 7 1/2 minutes[/i]. That's insane.[/QUOTE]
I fully realized that. That's why I said, if he kept that hot shooting, and got the minutes... he could've put up 60+ for sure.