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[QUOTE]You look at Dikr's stats over the past few years and NO has been as good as him as long as him. That's a fact.[/QUOTE]
No it isnt. Based strictly on numbers(eff) hes been over the last several years
6th
3rd
5th
6th
5th
9th
In the same time Duncan has been:
4
1
2
2
6
15
KG has been
1
1
1
1
3
3
Shaq has been
1
2
3
4
8
29
And since youre so big on who wins(once having told me every single player on a bad team is a bad player)....
Dirk won an average of 57 games. Duncan 59. Shaq 56. KG 47.
In that period of time Shaq won 3 titles and went to 5 finals. Duncan won 2 titles. Dirk made a finals and lost. KG made the WCF and lost.
If you want to go by numbers KG and Duncan have been better the last 6 years. By winning Shaq and Duncan. By a combo of the two Duncan and shaq come out ahead.
If you choose to ignore all but the last 3 years(wiping out the "as long as he has" part of your case) Shaq has been in the finals twice with a title and better numbers one of the years. Duncan the same though only one finals.
If you think Dirk is the best player over the last few years thats your right. But in no measurable way is he. Unless you choose to use "PER" in which case he is exactly tied with Lebron at 28.1 with Kobe at 28.0. And even then...he was never above 5th before last year.
I dont believe such numbers tell how good a player is and EFF sure as hell doesnt either. But its your belief not mine. If you want to look at Dirks stats hes never been the best player in the league. Sure as hell has not been over the last several years as you suggest.
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[QUOTE=lakerfreak]yup :cheers:[/QUOTE]
plz read the thread before agreeing with this hypocrite
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[QUOTE=Younggrease]OK then tell me who would "compliment Dirk", and try not to list the players that I have ranked higher or equal to dirk.
Off limits
Duncan
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
KG[/QUOTE]
Shaq
ZO
Big Z
Jermaine O'neal
Dwight Howard
Rasheed Wallace
Ben Wallace
Lamar Odom
Chris Bosh
Emeka Okafur
Elton Brand
Rober Horry would be great next to Dirk
Karl malone when he was playing
I could go on and on.. Dirk doesn't even need players as great as this.. all he really needs is several decent role playing big men. The Mavs haven't even been able to get a sufficient amount of these. Look at Duncan.. he had Robinson, Malik rose and Kevin Willis... Wade had Shaq, Zo and Walker.. Kobe had Shaq and Horry.
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I have nothing against what Wade said.
The NBA is all about rings (despite what groupies on here think).
Dirk should know better.
You can't talk until you get one and once you have one you can talk.
Barkley and Ewing were barred from card games on Dream Team One with Mike, Bird, Magic and them because they weren't sporting the proper jewelry.
If it were ISH Wade just pwned Dirk
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[QUOTE=JtotheIzzo]I have nothing against what Wade said.
Barkley and Ewing were barred from card games on Dream Team One with Mike, Bird, Magic and them because they weren't sporting the proper jewelry.
[/QUOTE]
Is this actually true?
:roll:
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[b]In the same time Duncan has been:
4
1
2
2
6
15
KG has been
1
1
1
1
3
3
Shaq has been
1
2
3
4
8
29
So then why are Wade and LeBron ranked over these guys? That'
s my point. But you also aren't including things like plus minus.. and which efficency ranking are you using? And are you using playoff games/ Win losses?
[b]And since youre so big on who wins(once having told me every single player on a bad team is a bad player)....[/b]
It doesn't amke them GOOD players to come from horrible teams..
[b]Dirk won an average of 57 games. Duncan 59. Shaq 56. KG 47.[/b]
Yep.. see Dirk and Duncan.. top 2 players in the league over the past few years. Shaq played with Kobe..
[b]In that period of time Shaq won 3 titles and went to 5 finals.[/b]
Playing with Kobe..
[b]Duncan won 2 titles. Dirk made a finals and lost. KG made the WCF and lost.[/b]
Duncan did it with Robinson one year.. and Parker and Ginolbi the next..
[b]If you want to go by numbers KG and Duncan have been better the last 6 years.[/b]
Not in the playoffs.. Dirk beat KG head to head.. or does that not matter?
[b]By winning Shaq and Duncan. By a combo of the two Duncan and shaq come out ahead.[/b]
Not when you consider their teammates.. and Shaq has missed a ton of games.. and played with Kobe.. and the dream tema Lakers
[b]If you choose to ignore all but the last 3 years(wiping out the "as long as he has" part of your case) Shaq has been in the finals twice with a title and better numbers one of the years. Duncan the same though only one finals.[/b]
Which is fine.. I would have a problem with Shaq and UCnan being ranked over Dikr.. Wade, Kobe and LeBron? I think NOT!
[b]If you think Dirk is the best player over the last few years thats your right. But in no measurable way is he.[/b]
Wrong.. in measurable way are Wade or LeBron.. and if youwjust want to focus on alst season then it's clearly Dirk..
[b]Unless you choose to use "PER" in which case he is exactly tied with Lebron at 28.1 with Kobe at 28.0. And even then...he was never above 5th before last year.[/b]
Actually Hollinger said Dikr was the bes tin the league last seaosn under the PER.. sounds like you are trying to fudge the numbers.. BUSH.
[b]I dont believe such numbers tell how good a player is and EFF sure as hell doesnt either. But its your belief not mine. If you want to look at Dirks stats hes never been the best player in the league. Sure as hell has not been over the last several years as you suggest.[/b]
The players you list had better teammates. Dirk has done the most with the least.. more so than any other player.. that's a fact. The bottom line is that it certainly isn't Wade or LeBron. And Kobe isn't even in the conversation.. and the longer Wade plays with Shaq the same goes for him too.
Wade had a worse record than Dirk and he was in the East last season with a better tema. Same with LeBron.
Dirk and Duncan are the ONLY players eligible for best in the league. shaq is too lazy.
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[QUOTE=Vragrant]Is this actually true?
:roll:[/QUOTE]
yes
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Look at this ****ing hypocrite. :roll: First he's saying that Kobe makes all of his teammates worse, that he isn't a top 10 player, plays "atrocious defense" and then he uses Kobe as the reason to everything that Shaq has accomplished.
KBlaze: Shaq won 4 titles.
***: Played with Kobe.
Kblaze: Shaq won 56 games.
***: Played with Kobe.
KBlaze: Shaq had better stats.
***: Played with Kobe. :roll: :roll: :roll:
But Kobe is a pathetic player, right?
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So we should call player who is only good at one aspect of the game(scoring, and when there are arguably 5-10 players better at that CURRENTLY in the league) better than a top 5-7 all-time player:rollingeyes:
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You are right... that is true.. Kobe does make the players around him worse.. but Shaq did play with Horry. Shaq also played with Malone one season.
But Shaq is also officiated much much more biased than Dirk.. same with Duncan. So technically you could say Shaq is one of the top players because of his accomplishments.. but he shouldn't have been. That is one way Kobe did make the players around him better.. the hype factor -- the star factor. In reality though he makes them worse. If you were to take biased officiating out of it.
That's the truly amazing thing aobut dirk.. what he has accomplished in spite of being screwed by the officials since day one. Compare that to all the other stars in the league. If Dirk got the proper respect from officials he would probably be the clear best player in the leagu eover the past several years. There would be no debate. Hell of Dirk was black there wouldn't even be a debate with his curent accomplishments.
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dont take this idioit seriously anymore. he has no credibilty on this board..
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You are the one who lost credibility TmacsOnegoodEye.. you never had that anyway though.. everyone knows you are full of BS.
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[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]You are the one who lost credibility TmacsOnegoodEye.. you never had that anyway though.. everyone knows you are full of BS.[/QUOTE]
haha here we go again...
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[QUOTE]haha, i just realized who FabCasablancas is. He's a poster from dallasbasketball.com named 41ForMVP. He was just a Dirk groupie.
He made a thread about how Dirk is a norse god and how he kind of looks like Dirk and we found it and put it on dallasbasketball.com and pretty much retired him. It was the longest clowning in message board history. I think it went nonstop for 4 weeks.
Guys a dumbass and a racist, ignore him.[/QUOTE]
I tried to talk to him. I honestly did. I think ill take your advice though. Some people are beyond all reason.
Dirk fans may well be the worst fans in the modern sports world. not Mavs fans. Mavs fans are fine. But the people who love Dirk and seemingly hate the Mavs are probably the worst out there.
Like those jordan lovers inthe 90s who didnt care about the Bulls and acted like everyone he played with was somehow overrated to make him look better.
People who love a player and not a team are almost always unreasonable and annoying. The worst of the worst annoy even fans of the team he supports. Ive been to Dallasbasketball.coms forum. Miles had me there for some reason years ago. If you can get run off a forum like that for Dirk homerism you are on a whole other level.
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We know who Kblaze is now...
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[QUOTE]haha, i just realized who FabCasablancas is. He's a poster from dallasbasketball.com named 41ForMVP. He was just a Dirk groupie.
He made a thread about how Dirk is a norse god and how he kind of looks like Dirk and we found it and put it on dallasbasketball.com and pretty much retired him. It was the longest clowning in message board history. I think it went nonstop for 4 weeks.
Guys a dumbass and a racist, ignore him. [/QUOTE]
OWNED
do you still have that thread, would be great to retire him from ISH
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Tmacs.. you aren't fooling anyone.. we know these are all your aliases..
How stupid do you think people are.. Remember when you told me you live in your moms basement typing on 3 different computers!
And TMOGE said he is some movie producer.. and Kblaze makes player mix vids.. just made a Dirk mix vid.. and then quotes TMOGE agreeing with his absurd posts...
You make it too obvious TMOGE..
And then Kblaze continues on with this same ridiculous complaint of "Dirk groupies".. which is completely stupid becaus eit is an oxymoron.. if there was suchg a thing as aDirk groupie he wouldn't be the most underrated player in NBA history.. he wouldn't have Mav fans embarrased to even say he might be the best player in the league.. why should they be mor eembarrased than Wade fans saying Wade is the best player in the league.
No one is obsessed with "Dirk groupisiism" as you TMOGE.
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[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]Tmacs.. you aren't fooling anyone.. we know these are all your aliases..
How stupid do you think people are.. Remember when you told me you live in your moms basement typing on 3 different computers!
And TMOGE said he is some movie producer.. and Kblaze makes player mix vids.. just made a Dirk mix vid.. and then quotes TMOGE agreeing with his absurd posts...
You make it too obvious TMOGE..[/QUOTE]
TMOGE = KBlaze?
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[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]Tmacs.. you aren't fooling anyone.. we know these are all your aliases..
How stupid do you think people are.. Remember when you told me you live in your moms basement typing on 3 different computers!
And TMOGE said he is some movie producer.. and Kblaze makes player mix vids.. just made a Dirk mix vid.. and then quotes TMOGE agreeing with his absurd posts...
You make it too obvious TMOGE..[/QUOTE]
What? TMOGE = Kblaze? BRILLIANT :banghead:
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[QUOTE=JtotheIzzo]TMOGE = KBlaze?[/QUOTE]
haha fab thinks TMOGE = me, lakerdyansty, kblaze, bradmiller52, etc...
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[QUOTE=hotsizzle]haha fab thinks TMOGE = me, lakerdyansty, kblaze, bradmiller52, etc...[/QUOTE]
oh
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That's Tmacs shtick.. post using so many aliases that people think it's impossible he is posting using so many aliases.. that's his whole game. All it takes is someone with no life.. TMOGE is just the one qualified for that challenge..
Now he will come on with all his other aliases and say "Kblaze is TMOGE? hahahahaha That's impossibel! How could he do that?"
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Is this guy serious? Tmac made 25 thousand posts on the old ezboard as an alias? If theres an alias hes mine. I was around before he was.
If im him....maybe....im everyone who ever said Dirk isnt the best player in the NBA. Im several hundred people at once. Perhaps I argue with myself for hours on end for the last 5 seasons chiming in...on my other accounts...to agree with one of me...and disagree with the other. All for the purpose of making some dirk fan seem disrespected by more than just me. And I only started back in the 01/02 season to build the credibility needed to make claims that im also someone else look absurd.
Seems I think ahead. Way way ahead. I may well be 60-70% of ISH.
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[b]Is this guy serious? Tmac made 25 thousand posts on the old ezboard as an alias? If theres an alias hes mine. I was around before he was.[/b]
You said it.. So yKblaze is the original and TMOGE is the trash talker.. the enforcer poster.. to do dirty work..a nd defeat "Dirk groupies"
Pretty ironic you 2 have the same retarded goal in life.. to stoop "Dirk groupies".. which makes zero sense in the fisrt place.. considering Dirk is one of the least hyped players in the league.. how do you explain that little coincidence? And youa re both Cuban groupies.. coincidentally..
[b]If im him....maybe....im everyone who ever said Dirk isnt the best player in the NBA.[/b]
Maybe youa re? You tell us..
[b]Im several hundred people at once. Perhaps I argue with myself for hours on end for the last 5 seasons chiming in...on my other accounts...to agree with one of me...and disagree with the other.[/b]
Youa re jsut stupid enough to do somehting like that.. your stupidity isn't an alibi..
[b]All for the purpose of making some dirk fan seem disrespected by more than just me. And I only started back in the 01/02 season to build the credibility needed to make claims that im also someone else look absurd.
Seems I think ahead. Way way ahead. I may well be 60-70% of ISH.[/b]
So Tmacs is your enforcer.. let's be honest here.. no one could be as dumb as TMOGE.,. it's obviously an act. And extreme side of your personality.
TMac.. you told me you live in your moms basement typing on 3 computers constantly.. you admitted it to me.. so we know any three people(at least)on ISH are you.. and they alternate constantly i am sure. The way you can tell it's Tmac is because he always has other people arguing defending him.. more than even he defends himself. Just like right now..
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[QUOTE=Sneakerpro]I'm a Mavs fan and Dwyane was probably my favorite player that didn't play for the Mavericks until this crap but being honest if I didn't like the Mavs I would think it was funny.
I mean the Mavericks did disrespect dude during the Finals, hell I remember Josh Howard flat out saying he can't shoot during an interview. I also remember Darryl Armstrong saying he fakes his injuries(which I think he does). I mean if someone said this stuff about you you would be pissed too.[/QUOTE]
Finally, a rational Mavs fan (unlike tmoge and joewait). What Wade said wasn't even that bad...how can anyone figure the tone of voice through text? :confusedshrug:
It could of been just a friendly joke.
And, too many Kobe groupies hating on Wade because Kobe will retire with less Finals MVPs than Chauncey Billups. :roll: :pimp: :roll:
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wade is already complaining about being utterly fatigued because of the world championships. does he have enough gas to repeat his playoff magic? and are teams still stupid enough to not use zone on him?
find out in the next episode of NBA basketball.
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It isn't wade though, the problem is that teams are already zonging to cover Shaq, then they have to deal with Wade. It's the same with shaq and any decent guard.
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[QUOTE=joewait]he barely guarded dirk 1 on 1 and was in constant foul trouble. To say haslem shut dirk down is to say tayshaun prince shut kobe down.[/QUOTE]
prince DID shut kobe down, in an hummiliating manner no less, thanks for proving our point.
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[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]
Why am I an idiot? Who has EVER said Dirk is the best player in the league? for people to say Dirk is the 5th best player in the league he has to be the actual best player in the league. That's how it works. If Dirk was actually the 5th best playe rin the league people would say he isn't in the top ten. Dirm is ALWAYS going to be underrated. That's just the way it is. You look at Dikr's stats over the past few years and NO has been as good as him as long as him. That's a fact. he has been the true MVP the past few seasons.. yet he's only the 5th or 6th best player? If Dirk was black there would be no debate.[/quote]
wrong on all acounts.
1. dirk wasnt MVP in 2005, shaq was.
2. dirk wasnt mvp in 2006, either kobe or lebron were.
3. dirk isnt the best in the league, kobe, lebron, wade are better than him.
[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]Dummy? So you are saying guys liek Kobe, Wade and Lebron get somekind of pass because they are short? Because Dikr is 7 feet that's an unfair advantage? This is basketball nimrod.. yeah he's suppsoed to rebound.. because he's 7 feet! That's lie saying Shaq's post dominance doesn't count because he's 7 feet and 4 hundred pounds.. it's BECAUSE Dirk is 7 feet that he is better than these guys! I sware to god.. people are so assbackwards.[/quote]
.this is where the ish hits the fen., a fracking power forward is SUPOSED to rebound better than a freakin shooting guard, are you really that stupid ? the same can be said about why wade, lebron and kobe average more assists than dirk, because they handle the ball more, 1+1=2.
[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]
BS.. this is where the race comes in.. you just assume this because of Dirk's race. NONE of these guys plays D. Kobe doesn't even cross half court half the time.. yet he is said to be one of the best defenders in the league. Someone at 82 games.com watched Kobe play D for a game.. and documented it.. he was atrocious. And it's like that all the time. LeBron and Wade are probably even worse.[/quote]
:roll: :roll: :roll: dirk's race has nothing to do with his bs defense, bird was white and acknowledge as a good team defender, dirk cant defend for sheit and thats a fact, kobe has been all defensive 1st team 4 times already.
[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]Pat Riley signed Walker.. so did Don Nelson.. we would probably still have Walker if we didn't have Dirk.. the Heat don't have another PF so Walker fits right in. When Wlake ris on he is a big game player. He helped them win that championshiop. There is no doubt.
[/quote]
he still isnt better than howard or terry.
[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]That's why Terry went 2 of 11 from 3 point range while Dirk had 2 Heat defenders glued to his butt. Your stats are a joke..[/quote]
the so called " best in the league" should score easily against 2 defenders, jordan did it, olajuwon did it, shaq did it.
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This thread is hilarious... an instant classic... and again, FabCasablancas is in the middle of the fray. I wonder who will side with him this time.
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[QUOTE=Younggrease]Sorry but Bird doesnt lose like that in the finals. Just doesnt happen. Maybe Bird starts actually steping up and taking charges or something. Also dude would just laugh at HAslem trying guard him. He would either score on him or pick apart the psuedo zone they were throwing with his Amazing passing ability. I more of a MAgic fan than a Bird fan, but give the man his respect. Bird was better than Dirk at everything. But most importantly he was a much BETTER LEADER.[/QUOTE]
Dirk has never claimed to be a leader, he leads by example but people just assume that the best player on a team is automatically a leader. Leaders are born, not made.
And to rebuke your comments, Dirk was refereed completely different than Wade was, regardless of their style of play. They allowed physical play against Dirk during the Finals(Halsem, Walker and Posey all pushed him around), which will obviously hurt his because he is a finesse player and bangin' is not his game. On the other end, everytime Wade gets breathed on, literally, a foul was called. I'm not blaming the Finals loss on that because the Mavs had their opportunities, but there has to be consistency with the way the FINALS are officiated. It was an unbelievably poor job. Stern should just be truthful about it instead of trying to protect his refs.
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[QUOTE=theinfamousmobb]Haslem/Posey did a damn good job on Dirk, that no one can say otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Yes, because physical play was allowed. Dirk would catch the ball 15-20 feet out and Haslem/Walker/Posey already were pushing him and had their hands all over. If they allow that kinda play, fine, but then you can't call EVERYTHING at the other end, which they did.
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w/e a new season is about to start. New slate for everyone. New slate for dirk wade etc etc. Dirk can easily come back and shut up wade by winnnig a ring this season. He and the mavs did it last year so they can come back and do it again. And what is so wrong with people saying what they think of a person? IF dirk thinks that "he was just let through" obviously b/c they didnt want fouls called on them then let him say it. Wade doesnt even need to respond to that. He should just dismiss it and the only way Dirk can prove that is by facing miami in the finals again or just winning a damn ring b/c proving it in the regular season wont work cus miami wasnt all that great in the regular season last year when the mavs creamed them.
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Well, that wasn't that bad of "trash talk"... even so, with Wade, it was probably done in light hearted jest. Not with malicious intent. Wade's a nice guy. Plus, he is right in what he said though. And Wade did dominate the Mavericks, no matter how you cut it.
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LOL. They'll likely meet again in the Finals, so we'll see what's really good.
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[QUOTE=Younggrease]I think he means that 28 yr old Kobe is better than 45 yr old Jordan.
Dirk is not overrated his is rated right where he should be. About 5 or 6 in the league. Dude plays no defense and has played on stacked teams and was never able to get a championship and only managed 1 finals apperance. You would think after TMAC layed the blueprint on how to stop Dirk, he would expand his game, obviously he didnt.
Until Dirk gets a post game, he will get shut down when it matters by the same type of defense the Rockets and HEat played.
Just put a player tall and agile. Like TMAC, Ryan Bowen, Jefferies, HAslem and have them contest his jumpers and be physical with him. Then he is taken out of his game.[/QUOTE]
So because Dirk has one bad series, all of a sudden T-Mac is laying blueprints, and Ryan Bown is a tall and agile defensive stopper huh? Good points. If I recall, Dirk was guarded in Rounds 1,2 and 3 this year by guys that are tall, agile and good defenders. I would say he faired pretty well against Shane Battier, Bruce Bowen and Shawn Marion. So your theory just goes right out the window right there. Make a valid point for once in your life.
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If you get physical with Dirk, he gets rattled. It was visible all through out the NBA Finals. I can't imagine what he would do if he was playing in the 90's.
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[I]Wade was asked about the ESPN interview in which Nowitzki seemed to hint Dallas allowed Wade to slice through its defense rather than Wade doing with his own ability. [/I]
READ folks, READ. ESPN assumes that Dirk hinted toward the fact that the Mavs let Wade slice through their defense. What Dirk probably hinted at, was that every time they touched him or gave him a strange look he got a foul call. Of course the gutless media would put a little different spin to it, and Wade would get all sensitive, because he got stripped naked in the World Championships and deep down inside knows Stern served him a title on a silver plattern. He can talk all the crap he wants, but he knows he truth.
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Ok, let me explain my point as clearly as possible, since a bunch of people here aren't too intelligent. Never once did I say Dirk or Kobe is a greater player than Bird or Jordan, considering the latter dominated their eras. My point is that when Jordan came in the league, everything he did was new. Barely anyone else could do what he does. Well Kobe has mastered everything Jordan did, AND he has better range. it's not that complicated to understand or fathom, it really isn't. same goes for Dirk. Back then a 6'9'' forward with long range skills was rare, and now it simply isn't that rare. if you can't poissbly begin to understand that, you're either not very intelligent and/or you've never played basketball. Any coach or former player can tell you this is the case. The competition is simply too good now and the league has more players and teams (including more good players) that it's not possible for any one or two players to just dominate the league. If you can't see that, you're probably not the brightest guy out there. Just watch a game from the 80s, and it looks like slow motion compared to now.
