International teams play a better brand of basketball than USA

Again look at the stats for the 2008 Olympics:

Total Assists. [B]USA- 150( 8 games played) Spain- 111[/B] (8 games played)
Total turnovers:[B] USA- 110 Spain- 122[/B]

Spain averaged 14 assists a game and a shade over 15 turnovers..........:facepalm

[QUOTE=fatboy11]The last time we won the World Championships was when?
[/QUOTE]
you are right. i correct myself by saying "contend" instead of "win".

and i am European, not american. i dont make you sound arrogant. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=L.A. Jazz]you are right. i correct myself by saying "contend" instead of "win".

and i am European, not american. i dont make you sound arrogant. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]Point still stands. There are a number of Americans here saying "we" still win when we don't.

[QUOTE=The_Yearning]If you had any common sense, you'd know that is already the case.[/QUOTE]
so ur saying uve seen my aunt/uncles dick? Keep that ish to urself brah

[QUOTE=fatboy11]Point still stands. There are a number of Americans here saying "we" still win when we don't.[/QUOTE]
who cares about the wbc's?

[QUOTE=FireMcFailPlease]who cares about the wbc's?[/QUOTE]Irrelevant. It doesn't matter who cares. Those guys on the court are still going out there to try to win. That's the point. And if they don't, well........

This team we've fielded for this tournament is, by far, the most talented team in the field. There's no question. I just don't think it can be said that it's the best team in the field. That's taking into consideration that other countries don't have some of their top guys as well.

We've still lost recently in the Olympics. So let's not act like we come to play "when it matters" because we dropped the ball there, too. What is it with you guys? Just swallow your pride and admit that we aren't that great in a FIBA setting if we don't send our A-list players. The game's changed. There are other countries playing a better brand/style of basketball than us. They just aren't as athletic. I feel that FIBA competition really exposes the fact that Americans, on average, aren't nearly as fundamentally sound as they used to be.

I don't believe my original post was any sort of attack on the Americans fundamentals in general.. just their play style in regards to moving the ball, finding the open man, etc..

Sure Americans have great ball handling, which is a fundamental skill. But they use it for unfundamental strategy, like dribbling around the court for 10 minutes before taking a fade-away.

I've been watching NBA classic games and I'm starting to lose interest.. I love the league but I hate the way they operate. Why can't they call traveling correctly? Why do superstars get calls? How come every single time a player drives and doesn't get a call, he looks at the referee with his hands up?

It all takes away from what is easily the most talented basketball league in the world.

It doesn't help that the games move at a snails pace. 48 minutes is way too much time, and the constant free throws drive me crazy. The icing on the cake is the constant commercials, with 6-7 commercials for every time out. In these FIBA games there's 3 commercials per time out... and the game's right back on.

And that's before we talk about TV timeouts.

probably explains why the entire staff are from colleges. I'm confident team usa won't lose a game. Now and definitely not in 2012. So to say the brand of international ball is better than what were used to is insane...and the only reason why we win vs 6'4 white dudes is cause of athletecism is retarded.

I think the foreigners on ish just don't like the us just like the fiba refs bbecause were just that damn stacked every year

[QUOTE=FireMcFailPlease]probably explains why the entire staff are from colleges. I'm confident team usa won't lose a game. Now and definitely not in 2012. So to say the brand of international ball is better than what were used to is insane...[B]and the only reason why we win vs 6'4 white dudes is cause of athletecism is retarded.[/B]

I think the foreigners on ish just don't like the us just like the fiba refs bbecause were just that damn stacked every year[/QUOTE]And to act like that's our only competition is retarded. I don't know of many countries that are fielding teams like that anymore.

[QUOTE=joe]I don't believe my original post was any sort of attack on the Americans fundamentals in general.. just their play style in regards to moving the ball, finding the open man, etc..

Sure Americans have great ball handling, which is a fundamental skill. But they use it for unfundamental strategy, like dribbling around the court for 10 minutes before taking a fade-away.

I've been watching NBA classic games and I'm starting to lose interest.. I love the league but I hate the way they operate. Why can't they call traveling correctly? Why do superstars get calls? How come every single time a player drives and doesn't get a call, he looks at the referee with his hands up?

It all takes away from what is easily the most talented basketball league in the world.

It doesn't help that the games move at a snails pace. 48 minutes is way too much time, and the constant free throws drive me crazy. The icing on the cake is the constant commercials, with 6-7 commercials for every time out. In these FIBA games there's 3 commercials per time out... and the game's right back on.

And that's before we talk about TV timeouts.[/QUOTE]


USA team lead the 2008 Olympics in assists

[QUOTE=Leviathon1121]What is even worse then racism are the people, like yourself, who seem to like to try and point out racism at any given opportunity, even when there clearly is none.

It is basic, proven science, that Zen is talking about here, not racism. Having a genetic predisposition towards a high percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers does give blacks an advantage in certain sports. Of course, they have to work just as hard as anyone else to keep that advantage on a professional level.

You people crying racism are just pathetic.[/QUOTE]


This post COMPLETELY owns all of the people calling other people racist. While one can enhance their explosive capabilities (and it's not just lifting weights you retards), one can only peak so high, as people are born with a certain number of fast twitch muscle fibers. There is a lot of research that states that african americans have more fast twitch muscle fibers on average. Is every black guy more athletic than every white guy? Nope. Can white people be explosive too? Yup. But to say the predominantly white european players could "just hit the weights" to catch up to the USA's athletic dominance is so damn close-minded and frustrating to read.

[QUOTE=TheLogo]I have been saying this for years and if it wasn't for the Americans athleticisim and talent they get beat everytime. Fundamentals and passing the ball doens't exist with USA basketball, not since '92 and in Beijing.

I blame Kobe Bryant for not being on the team. If he and Kidd was on the team we would sing a different tune. Kobe is the last of a dying breed, who played in the 90's, who also possess man fundamental skills.

This USA team is young and if Kobe was on the team, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He is the only player that can adjust his game to international play. 4th quarter of the gold medal game comes to mind.

Hopefully, Kobe will be on the team, if not, just his presence there would do wonders for this young team.[/QUOTE]

Yes, because Kobe is known for his PASSING abilities and NOT taking a fadeaway after 5-10 dribbles. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=mrhoopfan]USA team lead the 2008 Olympics in assists[/QUOTE]

Those are good statistics to counter my argument but I still stand by what I said. From my view of the games, USA is much less inclined to move the ball around and find the open man than international teams.

And I'm not saying your statistics are bogus or anything, but think about this.. Stephon Marbury frequently averaged more assists than most other point guards.. did that make him a player you thought of as one to move the ball around and find the open man?

The same could be said for Allen Iverson, Stephie Franchise, or even Lebron. And while I think Lebron is a tremendous passer, making an incredible pass is much different than displaying a general attitude of wanting to move the ball and find the open guy.

[QUOTE=LBJ_MVP09]This post COMPLETELY owns all of the people calling other people racist. While one can enhance their explosive capabilities (and it's not just lifting weights you retards), one can only peak so high, as people are born with a certain number of fast twitch muscle fibers. There is a lot of research that states that african americans have more fast twitch muscle fibers on average. Is every black guy more athletic than every white guy? Nope. Can white people be explosive too? Yup. But to say the predominantly white european players could "just hit the weights" to catch up to the USA's athletic dominance is so damn close-minded and frustrating to read.[/QUOTE]

People just cry racism because they have no real counter argument. It's sad, but it is what it is.

[QUOTE=FireMcFailPlease]probably explains why the entire staff are from colleges. I'm confident team usa won't lose a game. Now and definitely not in 2012. So to say the brand of international ball is better than what were used to is insane...and the only reason why we win vs 6'4 white dudes is cause of athletecism is retarded.

I think the foreigners on ish just don't like the us just like the fiba refs bbecause were just that damn stacked every year[/QUOTE]

Another racist just outed himself.

[QUOTE=LBJ_MVP09]This post COMPLETELY owns all of the people calling other people racist. While one can enhance their explosive capabilities (and it's not just lifting weights you retards), one can only peak so high, as people are born with a certain number of fast twitch muscle fibers. There is a lot of research that states that african americans have more fast twitch muscle fibers on average. Is every black guy more athletic than every white guy? Nope. Can white people be explosive too? Yup. But to say the predominantly white european players could "just hit the weights" to catch up to the USA's athletic dominance is so damn close-minded and frustrating to read.[/QUOTE]

Hey racist, do you know what builds the fast twitch muscle fibers? Did you actually research why blacks are said to have more?

if you had you would be freaking embarrassed. Take your RACIST agenda elsewhere because it is insulting.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]People just cry racism because they have no real counter argument. It's sad, but it is what it is.[/QUOTE]

You should be banned.

[QUOTE=Lakas Fan Yo]Another racist just outed himself.[/QUOTE]
im white brah

[QUOTE=FireMcFailPlease]im white brah[/QUOTE]

You are racist.

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16937962[/url]

[url]http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/305/5684/637[/url]

[url]http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/Daily_Express_9_8_2000.htm[/url]

I also have taken many science classes in college and have a very strong understanding of anatomy/physiology. If this research is too lacking and my knowledge of anatomy is not enough, why don't you enlighten me rather than shouting racist? Unlike you I'm open-minded and willing to concede granted there is proof to your claims.

what ever happened to V-span???? i remember that one game where he came outta nowhere beasting on team usa. i was like damn, i wish he woulda did that shit when he was in a rockets uniform.:facepalm

[QUOTE=LBJ_MVP09][url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16937962[/url]

[url]http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/305/5684/637[/url]

[url]http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/Daily_Express_9_8_2000.htm[/url]

I also have taken many science classes in college and have a very strong understanding of anatomy/physiology. If this research is too lacking and my knowledge of anatomy is not enough, why don't you enlighten me rather than shouting racist? Unlike you I'm open-minded and willing to concede granted there is proof to your claims.[/QUOTE]


You are not only a racist, you are also an overly educated moron.

[QUOTE=MiseryCityTexas]what ever happened to V-span???? i remember that one game where he came outta nowhere beasting on team usa. i was like damn, i wish he woulda did that shit when he was in a rockets uniform.:facepalm[/QUOTE]

His coach was also racist. He had back to back great games against USA "A" team and yet according to his idiot coach he could not even make an NBA game.

[IMG]http://i37.tinypic.com/2inigh.jpg[/IMG]

yes they do.

i surely hope so. cause white unathletic players beating nba stars just doesn't sound to good.

[QUOTE=50inchvertical]Nobody said both races were equal, hell no 2 people are genetically equal; it's just not this outright thing that if you're black you're athletic automatically and if you aren't, then you aren't and nothing can be done about it.

If you can't jump high but want to, get in the weight room as well as on some plyos and you will jump high.

And yes black people do overwhelmingly pick up basketball and football more than other sports, especially the other ones you listed. Basketball is pretty much the sport of choice. Like you mention cycling and how I guess you think white people are genetically predisposed to being better at it, how many schools have a cycling program compared to schools with a basketball team?

Ask Chase Buddinger. He was born with the, what you consider to be a handicap in sports, of being white yet he wanted to be a great volleyball/basketball player and turned himself into just that. Ditto Joe Alexander.

Google Alex Maroko. He makes his millions training people who never think they can be athletic, to be athletic. Kelly Baggett is another guy to look at. Both are white as well.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_csSUFF_4U[/url]

I got a video of Alex hitting his head on the rim somewhere, I think it's in my email. I'll find it. He's 5'10 btw

Getting over the mental handicap is the first hurdle.

If you can't do something, you just aren't and haven't been working hard enough at it.

edit: and find videos of Javtokas before the car accident. He was every bit as athletic as Ibaka.[/QUOTE]

I agree, that steriotype kills most players from even beginning to work at it. There are examples of tons of white guys with huge verticals, look up Alan Barch Jr. on YouTube

And not that it matters, but that vid is of Taylor Allan, not Kelly Baggett. I'd like to see a video of Kelly but all there is is that picture.... Again, another white dude with a huge vert.

[QUOTE=ranger89]I agree, that steriotype kills most players from even beginning to work at it. There are examples of tons of white guys with huge verticals, look up Alan Barch Jr. on YouTube

And not that it matters, but that vid is of Taylor Allan, not Kelly Baggett. I'd like to see a video of Kelly but all there is is that picture.... Again, another white dude with a huge vert.[/QUOTE]
I know who it is. I was mentioning Kelly in my list of white dudes with verticals who trained hard to attain them. And I never much cared for Kelly as a business man. He was a con artist. Luke Lowrey is too.

And the whole fast twitch slow twitch argument is so tired. They're not as mutually exclusive as people pretend. That's the reason somebody like Keon Clark with no visible muscle mass can have hops, just the same as someone like Ismail Muhammad who is all muscle. And frankly, those ESPN WOrld's Strongest Men dudes have higher vertical leaps than basketball players (average vertical is higher in the NFL than in the NBA too). They lack the athletic grace to do the types of things basketball players do because they don't train in such a way, but I've seen Dr Squat (who is a very old white man who squats like 1000lbs but plays no sports) off a pure vert jump over 4 ft in the air on stage, was damn near high enough to clear anybody standing near him. I just can't find that picture for shit anymore.

And so yes, the international guys could get into the weight room if they cared to not be 6'6 176lbs.

[QUOTE=50inchvertical]I know who it is. I was mentioning Kelly in my list of white dudes with verticals who trained hard to attain them. And I never much cared for Kelly as a business man. He was a con artist. Luke Lowrey is too.

And the whole fast twitch slow twitch argument is so tired. They're not as mutually exclusive as people pretend. That's the reason somebody like Keon Clark with no visible muscle mass can have hops, just the same as someone like Ismail Muhammad who is all muscle. And frankly, those ESPN WOrld's Strongest Men dudes have higher vertical leaps than basketball players (average vertical is higher in the NFL than in the NBA too). They lack the athletic grace to do the types of things basketball players do because they don't train in such a way, but I've seen Dr Squat (who is a very old white man who squats like 1000lbs but plays no sports) off a pure vert jump over 4 ft in the air on stage, was damn near high enough to clear anybody standing near him. I just can't find that picture for shit anymore.

And so yes, the international guys could get into the weight room if they cared to not be 6'6 176lbs.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i37.tinypic.com/2inigh.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=50inchvertical]I know who it is. I was mentioning Kelly in my list of white dudes with verticals who trained hard to attain them. And I never much cared for Kelly as a business man. He was a con artist. Luke Lowrey is too.

And the whole fast twitch slow twitch argument is so tired. They're not as mutually exclusive as people pretend. That's the reason somebody like Keon Clark with no visible muscle mass can have hops, just the same as someone like Ismail Muhammad who is all muscle. And frankly, those ESPN WOrld's Strongest Men dudes have higher vertical leaps than basketball players (average vertical is higher in the NFL than in the NBA too). They lack the athletic grace to do the types of things basketball players do because they don't train in such a way, but I've seen Dr Squat (who is a very old white man who squats like 1000lbs but plays no sports) off a pure vert jump over 4 ft in the air on stage, was damn near high enough to clear anybody standing near him. I just can't find that picture for shit anymore.

And so yes, the international guys could get into the weight room if they cared to not be 6'6 176lbs.[/QUOTE]

I posted it just two posts above you, but I guess I'll post it again:

[IMG]http://i37.tinypic.com/2inigh.jpg[/IMG]

But I guess white people just don't train for 100m sprint eh? That must be the reason.

I hate the NBA rules. Particularly the only way to defend perimeter players is to flop, and even that rarely works.

when FIBA comes along, I find it much more enjoyable than the NBA.

Another difference is that we Lithuanians(not sure about other euro countires like spain) don't have that "first option", it's unecessary and only worse for team, instead that we have 7 first options. Even now my hometown team Zalgiris (which consists of 5 Lithuanian national team members of wcb2010) has no first option what so ever, there is 9-10 equal players who think how to help the team to win instead padding up triple doubles.

[QUOTE=joe]If the Americans didn't have an athletic advantage over these squads, they'd be getting blown out of the building.

The game against Lithuania sparked these thoughts in me, but make no mistake about it.. I've felt this way for a while. I should also mention that I'm a Yank myself (born and raised in upstate New York). It's been over the course of several international competitions that I've come to this conclusion (which isn't hard to see)..

While the USA players are better individually (and they are), they seem to be entirely lacking in the fundamental concept of moving the ball. Of finding the open man.

Other countries are constantly looking to pass. The ball finds its way to cutters and open shooters. In contrast, the Americans over dribble for one-on-one moves that lead to contested jumpers.

I found myself rooting for Lithuania because the Americans are maddening to watch. To see the Lithuanian's make brilliant, crisp passes and smart decisions with the ball, immediately followed by a Gay/Durant/Rose/etc taking 10 dribbles then pulling up for 3... I mean, rooting for the other side was something I couldn't help but do.

Anyone else feeling the same?[/QUOTE]
its because of the system the coach introduced to the team. international team plays a system that way. touch passing, off the ball movement, a lot of screens, cut to the basket etc. they play a lot of half court sets. while US' game is more of transition, they play press to force the other team a lot of turnover which usually leads to a dunk for US. but they do play half court offense, it just happened that their pressure defense is great. and regarding the guys dribbling too much they "maybe" doing it for on purpose like drawing double team to make a pass to an open teammate. now if they failed on that credit it to the opponents defense, 'cause they read the play so well it forced the ball handler to turn the ball over. and besides team US play fancy basketball so you'll see a lot of that happening, showcasing their talent through no look passes, beating their guys off the dribble, drawing double teams and shooting forced jumpers, alley oop passes, etc. about team USA being "more" athletic than the other teams, well give props to the players they worked hard for it. its not the skin color or what not, but its really YOU that matters because you are the one that will make yourself more athletic for the game.

The team that wins is the team that plays a better brand of ball