Printable View
[QUOTE=DreamRockets]so that's your rebuttal ? :confusedshrug: i was expecting something more from the idiot who thinks scoring average = mvp :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
You don't waste logic on morons. You just laugh at them. Now go take a look in the mirror.
[QUOTE=i seen hippos]dirk did not deserve the award last year.
marion with an average pg would have no offense outside of offensive putbacks.[/QUOTE]
These are marions scoring averages from each of the 3 pre nash seasons.
19.1
21.1
19.0
3 nash seasons(im including this one)
19.4
21.4
19.9
Someone posted these numbers a couple pages back... You're dumb.
i will see nash winning the mvp over that shaq-made champion kobe bryant and hype machine lebron james, why would i do that ? :confusedshrug:
did you even read my post?
[QUOTE=i seen hippos]dirk did not deserve the award last year.
marion with an average pg would have no offense outside of offensive putbacks.[/QUOTE]
so explain why he scores a combined average of 1ppg more in his three years with nash than he did in the 3 years previous to nash. If hes so horrible without nash you would think that he would have had some major change once nash got there.
[QUOTE=DreamRockets]i will see nash winning the mvp over that shaq-made champion kobe bryant and hype machine lebron james, why would i do that ? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
You don't expect people to hype a guy who scores 81 in a game (35.4 ppg) and another who averages 31/7/7? One in L.A. and the other dubbed as the next coming before he got drafted? Of course there will be hype, you moron.
Get over it, Nash is OVER-RATED! CLAP, CLAP, CLAP CLAP CLAP! OVER-RATED! CLAP, CLAP, CLAP CLAP CLAP!
Chant with me boys...! :D
[QUOTE=i seen hippos]did you even read my post?[/QUOTE]
do you have a point. in the 3 years previous to nash he scored a similar amount to his numbers with nash before nash went there. His numbers change has been in REBOUNDING which unless you are gonna say nash boxes out for him you cant attribute to nash.
[QUOTE=i seen hippos]did you even read my post?[/QUOTE]
These are marions scoring averages from each of the 3 pre nash seasons.
19.1
21.1
19.0
3 nash seasons(im including this one
19.4
21.4
19.9
Someone posted these numbers a while back... Thought I'd put them back up, set some b!tches straight.
whats funny is that shawn marion used to be underrated then everyone said he was underrated so he wasnt anymore and now everyone acts like hes a bum that only gets numbers because of nash so hes underrated again.
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]His numbers change has been in REBOUNDING which unless you are gonna say nash boxes out for him you cant attribute to nash.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]do you have a point. in the 3 years previous to nash he scored a similar amount to his numbers with nash before nash went there. His numbers change has been in REBOUNDING which unless you are gonna say nash boxes out for him you cant attribute to nash.[/QUOTE]
Nash did average 4 rebounds last year. :bowdown: :bowdown: :rockon: :banana: GOAT!
[QUOTE]Explain marions and bells numbers being remarkably similar to pre nash and JJ going on to be better without nash...[/QUOTE]
Ok. Looking at numbers alone (although I normally wouldnt want to do that).....Raja Bell- Raja has a [B]8 year scoring average of 9.1 points a game[/B]....and this is [I]including [/I] last season with Nash where he averaged [B]14.7 points[/B]....and this year where is averaging [B]17.1[/B]. These are not similar numbers.
As for Marion, the Suns have gotten deeper, with the emergence of Diaw, the addition of Thomas, and the increased dominance of Amare, his numbers arent going to improve dramatically. I am impressed that he has been able to maintain his numbers playing on a much better team.
Until Atlanta makes the playoffs, I wouldnt say that Joe Johnson is better without Nash. I would rather have a guy putting up solid number on a WCF team than a guy scoring his ass off on a really marginal team...although I will give you that they are playing better this year. I would still make the argument that playing in Phoenix with Nash helped JJ
about raja yes for his career his numbers are much worse than with nash. However for his career he was a backup for a large part of that. His numbers last year werent that dissimilar than his numbers each of his years in utah. He just got to shoot more.
Bells scoring couldnt have anything to do with his minutes DRASTICALLY increasing(his career high pre suns was 28 and hes averaged 38 with phoenix) and the pace that they play. No. It could only possibly be steve nashs golden touch and now nash can even be in phoenix and you can be in atlanta and the golden touch will still apply.
[QUOTE]Ok. Looking at numbers alone (although I normally wouldnt want to do that).....Raja Bell- Raja has a 8 year scoring average of 9.1 points a game....and this is including last season with Nash where he averaged 14.7 points....and this year where is averaging 17.1. These are not similar numbers.[/QUOTE]
He rode the bench and averaged 3 points tops in Philly/Dallas his first 3 years. Don't bring up career averages, those years DRASTICALLY skew them.
In his last year with Utah he scored 12.3 points in a much slower paced, half-court game (93 ppg), on 45.4% shooting.
In his first year with Phoenix (last year), he averaged 14.7 points in a much faster-paced offense (108 ppg), on 45.7% shooting.
Game, set, Dirk.
[QUOTE]Someone posted these numbers a while back... Thought I'd put them back up, set some b!tches straight.[/QUOTE]
Marion putting up 20 ppg on a 20, 30, or even 40 win teams is alot less impressive to me than doing it on a 50 and 60 win teams.
[QUOTE=EuJazz]He rode the bench and averaged 3 points tops in Philly/Dallas his first 3 years. Don't bring up career averages, those years DRASTICALLY skew them.
In his last year with Utah he scored 12.3 points in a much slower paced, half-court game (93 ppg), on 45.4% shooting.
In his first year with Phoenix (last year), he averaged 14.7 points in a much faster-paced offense (108 ppg), on 45.7% shooting.
Game, set, Dirk.[/QUOTE]
dont forget the 10 extra minutes a game he played.
[QUOTE=EuJazz]He rode the bench and averaged 3 points tops in Philly/Dallas his first 3 years. Don't bring up career averages, those years DRASTICALLY skew them.
In his last year with Utah he scored 12.3 points in a much slower paced, half-court game (93 ppg), on 45.4% shooting.
In his first year with Phoenix (last year), he averaged 14.7 points in a much faster-paced offense (108 ppg), on 45.7% shooting.
Game, set, nash.[/QUOTE]
well said biatch :pimp:
[QUOTE=DreamRockets]well said biatch :pimp:[/QUOTE]
you really are a douche-bag. Ive made my points. You can either listen to them or continue to be an idiot. Up to you but im pretty much done with this thread.
[QUOTE=bumpyknucks]Marion putting up 20 ppg on a 20, 30, or even 40 win teams is alot less impressive to me than doing it on a 50 and 60 win teams.[/QUOTE]
So you concede that Nash didn't make Marion better? Deal.
:banana: Pla-Plow!
no one invited you, and it wasnt you who i quoted, if i struck a never and undid months of therapy after nash won mvp over your boy dirk im really sorry about it :confusedshrug: :pimp:
[QUOTE]He rode the bench and averaged 3 points tops in Philly/Dallas his first 3 years. Don't bring up career averages, those years DRASTICALLY skew them.[/QUOTE]
He rode the bench for a reason. He
[QUOTE=DreamRockets]those player were facing true mvp candidates.
payton, KJ, strickland and stockton were facing prime jordan, prime hakeem, drob, young shaq for the award, those players were getting 60 wins every year and putting almost unmatchable numbers.
thomas was facing magic, bird and jordan as well.
tim hardaway was facing prime shaq and prime duncan during the era in when they were ruling the league.
steve nash didnt win mvp because he was better than those beforementioned players, but because his competition is weaker, shaq is way past his days of mvp contention, duncan is probably in his last couple years of contention for the award, nash won it because he was going against a couple of overhyped guards who haven't done jack in their lives and who barely crack 40 something and 50 wins in kobe and lebron.
nash isnt better than stockton, payton, strickland, whoever, he didnt win because he was better than those players were, but because his competition sucked.[/QUOTE]
Thank You and goodnight.
And I wasn't even aware of Nash's stats over the last three eyars. Thanks for that GOBB.
Well, i don't know about two but he for sure deserves one. He's just one of a kind guy. Best point in NBA alongside Jason Kidd and Chris Paul.
Nash dropped 16pts and 14 assists tonight. That assist avg will rise to 11.68.
:bowdown:
He rode the bench for a reason. He
[QUOTE=EuJazz]He had them both the first year, jackass. Nash has always had one or the other. You'd have to say 'Where would Amare and Marion lead the Suns without Nash.'
[B]Which, with Barbosa at point guard, there's not too big of a dropoff (what, 18 points and 7 assists instead of 18 and 10?) So in that case they average what, 102-104 points instead of around 110? Damn! They'll never win! [/B]:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
You are a certified idiot. You are telling me that equal numbers translate into equal impact? So, Barbosa could do what Nash does just with less assists?
People like you make it hard to read a thread without bumping into ignorance on this site.
[QUOTE=GOBB]Nash dropped 16pts and 14 assists tonight. That assist avg will rise to 11.68.
:bowdown:[/QUOTE]
Oh my God 11.7??? GOAT! GOAT!
He's the best point guard ever because he plays how a point guard is supposed to, pass-first, in an era where passing is a lost art.
A whole 11.7? That doesn't warrant an MVP. Not even today.
[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]You are a certified idiot. You are telling me that equal numbers translate into equal impact? So, Barbosa could do what Nash does just with less assists?
People like you make it hard to read a thread without bumping into ignorance on this site.[/QUOTE]
Then....don't....read it....and....leave.
[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]Thank You and goodnight.
And I wasn't even aware of Nash's stats over the last three eyars. Thanks for that GOBB.[/QUOTE]
gobbs numbers werent even close to what nash has averaged over the last three years, they are what he is averaging THIS year in a very short sample size which is largely skewed because he just had a career night.
[QUOTE]He's the best point guard ever because he plays how a point guard is supposed to
[/QUOTE]
Yea. I mean...its SOOO damn easy to play how a point is supposed to play. I mean....EVERYBODY is averaging 11 assists per game. And giving passes reminiscent of Magic's days. And scoring over 50% from 3pt and FG. Yea. He's supposed to do that.
Kid. Guy. Whatever the eff you are. You seriously need to start appraoching things with intelligence. Because I'm starting to doubt you even have a brain. Do you bother to read what you post before ou post it?
Anyway. Its never going to change. Some people are going to support Nash and his MVP's. Others will not. That will never change. We can sit and argue about arguing over who's career was not made better with Nash and all that hoop-la all we want. You still have the doubters. Like someone said before, Nash won't be appreciated until he is gone from the game and the NBA represents the days when ball movement and crisp passes and "fun" basketball was a thing of the 80s.
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]gobbs numbers werent even close to what nash has averaged over the last three years, they are what he is averaging THIS year in a very short sample size which is largely skewed because he just had a career night.[/QUOTE]
Thought they were.
And how are they skewed? You act as if Nash has been under-performing this season. He is playing the best basketball of his career right now. Last night was a representation of what he has been doing this season: carrying the Suns to 11 out of 12 wins
[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]Yea. I mean...its SOOO damn easy to play how a point is supposed to play. I mean....EVERYBODY is averaging 11 assists per game. And giving passes reminiscent of Magic's days. And scoring over 50% from 3pt and FG. Yea. He's supposed to do that.
We can sit and argue about arguing over who's career was not made better with Nash and all that hoop-la all we want.[/QUOTE]
1. 11 assists a game doesn't impress me when I grew up watching one of the two best PG's of all time average 10 each year for 10 years, 8 of which he averaged over 12 apg, 5 over 13 apg, and 2 over 14 apg. One year at 14.5 (NBA Record). In the 14.5 apg season, he also averaged 17 ppg (completely overshadowing Nash's not-even-close-15.5 ppg/11.5apg.) and never was in an MVP race. Obviously, he had the Jordans, etc., in the game, and never would have won one even if considered, but I'm saying the league has forgotten that what Nash is doing is A POINT GUARDS JOB. You're SUPPOSED to average 10 apg, that makes you a damn good PG. Not an MVP, though.
2. [url]http://www.blackvvaves.justgotowned.com/[/url]
[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]Thought they were.
And how are they skewed? You act as if Nash has been under-performing this season. He is playing the best basketball of his career right now. Last night was a representation of what he has been doing this season: carrying the Suns to 11 out of 12 wins[/QUOTE]
well they are skewed because he just scored 42 which raised his scoring average from below (slightly) 20 to over 21. As for his numbers the last 2 years before this his numbers are basically 16.5 and 11 which isnt even remotely close to what he posted. Nash has NEVER averaged 20 for a season and most likely wont this year.
[QUOTE=Kobe24]He didn't deserve his second one no matter how hard you try to deny it.[/QUOTE]
dude are you serious??? Nash deserved MVP last year why?
because he lost all of his scorers on that team...Stodamire was injured for the whole year...they traded Joe Johnson, Traded Q richardson....Kurt Thomas was out the majority of the year...he was like there last hope for any size down low....they were not even picked to make the playoffs and they managed to make it to the WCF....
Now I dont think that he should of won the first MVP at all!
[QUOTE=DieHardBullsFan]dude are you serious??? Nash deserved MVP last year why?
because he lost all of his scorers on that team...Stodamire was injured for the whole year...they traded Joe Johnson, Traded Q richardson....Kurt Thomas was out the majority of the year...he was like there last hope for any size down low....they were not even picked to make the playoffs and they managed to make it to the WCF....
Now I dont think that he should of won the first MVP at all![/QUOTE]
so you dont count kurt thomas as part of their roster last year since he missed a signifigant amount of time?
In that case this is the mavs team from last year Dirk, Jet, Diop, Damp. Thats it. EVERYONE else missed at least a similar amount of time to Thomas.
[QUOTE=DieHardBullsFan]dude are you serious??? Nash deserved MVP last year why?
because he lost all of his scorers on that team...Stodamire was injured for the whole year...they traded Joe Johnson, Traded Q richardson....Kurt Thomas was out the majority of the year...he was like there last hope for any size down low....they were not even picked to make the playoffs and they managed to make it to the WCF....
Now I dont think that he should of won the first MVP at all![/QUOTE]
Who cares if they were picked for the playoffs.
People picked the Dolphins to win the AFC East this year, and the Panthers were the 'sexy' Super Bowl pick. And the Tigers and Cardinals were in the World Series, I'm sure nobody picked the Tigers to be there prior to the season.
Knock Knock...
"Who's there"
Dirk.
"Dirk who?"
Nash didn't deserve sh!t.
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]so you dont count kurt thomas as part of their roster last year since he missed a signifigant amount of time?
In that case this is the mavs team from last year Dirk, Jet, Diop, Damp. Thats it. EVERYONE else missed at least a similar amount of time to Thomas.[/QUOTE]
That must mean it was ALL Dirk. AND they had more wins that Phoenix.
Is Dirk the MVP now?
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]so you dont count kurt thomas as part of their roster last year since he missed a signifigant amount of time?
In that case this is the mavs team from last year Dirk, Jet, Diop, Damp. Thats it. EVERYONE else missed at least a similar amount of time to Thomas.[/QUOTE]
what are you talking about? if you know how to read it I clearly talk about that and two....last year, (if your talking about last year) Dirk had more talent around him than Nash did last year....so I dont know what your point is??
[QUOTE=EuJazz]Who cares if they were picked for the playoffs.
People picked the Dolphins to win the AFC East this year, and the Panthers were the 'sexy' Super Bowl pick. And the Tigers and Cardinals were in the World Series, I'm sure nobody picked the Tigers to be there prior to the season.
Knock Knock...
"Who's there"
Dirk.
"Dirk who?"
Nash didn't deserve sh!t.[/QUOTE]
Dirk had a storng year but they also had terry, stackhouse, howard, and daniels they were the deepest team in the NBA, nash took a team that was going to suck without those guys....
Hello????? Nash lost 50ppg from Q, Amare, and Joe Johnson last year and they still got to the WCF.....MVP deserving...If you ask me!
[QUOTE=EuJazz]1. 11 assists a game doesn't impress me when I grew up watching one of the two best PG's of all time average 10 each year for 10 years, 8 of which he averaged over 12 apg, 5 over 13 apg, and 2 over 14 apg. One year at 14.5 (NBA Record). In the 14.5 apg season, he also averaged 17 ppg (completely overshadowing Nash's not-even-close-15.5 ppg/11.5apg.) and never was in an MVP race. Obviously, he had the Jordans, etc., in the game, and never would have won one even if considered, but I'm saying the league has forgotten that what Nash is doing is A POINT GUARDS JOB. You're SUPPOSED to average 10 apg, that makes you a damn good PG. Not an MVP, though.
2. [url]http://www.blackvvaves.justgotowned.com/[/url][/QUOTE]
You're good at repeating yourself. Horrible at answering questions though. :applause: