Would Bulls fans trade Derrick Rose for LeBron James if they had the chance?

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]LOL

Being on the floor longer leads to more opportunities to be fouled. Another flawed way of thinking. You don't have to shoot to get to the ft line.[/QUOTE]
And do those points you get not count or something? Fact is he gets to the line at a better rate relative to his FGA. That's what FTR is. If someone's on the floor drawing more fouls while not taking more shots at the same time, it's more efficient regardless of minutes.

[QUOTE=chazzy]And do those points you get not count or something? Fact is he gets to the line at a better rate relative to his FGA. That's what FTR is. If someone's on the floor drawing more fouls while not taking more shots at the same time, it's more efficient regardless of minutes.[/QUOTE]

No, its not more efficient. Deng was getting to the line more per minute on the floor back in 07. That is more efficient.

You keep equating shooting more with getting to the line more. That is not how it works actually.

Anything to artificially drive up efficiency in some manner.

You keep saying TS is just about efficiency. Its not. Its about over valuing a 3.

FG% is just about efficiency from the field. its counts all makes and misses. thats all it does. if you want to look at free throws, look at FTA and percentage. not hard.

take two players:

25 points on 50% fg 85% ft on 7 attempts
25 points on 45% fg 85% ft on 7 attempts

The first player is more efficient. He's scoring his points while missing less shots. That is what efficiency is. Efficiency is about who misses less.

True Shooting could come in and depending on how many threes each take, could actually favor the 2nd player. How does that make sense? FG% accounts for all shots...both 2s and 3s.

True Shooting masks missed shots....which is the entire reason for having efficiency measures in the first place.

Really the only time TS and EFG should come into play is with true specialists. Like straight up 3 point shooters that rarely take and 2's. But even then, you can just look at 3pt percentage and attempts.

Hold on a second.. Rose is doing exactly what Lebron has been doing for years now, leading his team to #1 in the East. Its not like Rose is doing something Lebron can't do. You guys have to wait see what Rose can do in the Playoffs before going off choosing Rose. Lebron even lead a team without guys like Boozer and Noah to 2 straight 60+ seasons.

[QUOTE=Nash]Hold on a second.. Rose is doing exactly what Lebron has been doing for years now, leading his team to #1 in the East. Its not like Rose is doing something Lebron can't do. You guys have to wait see what Rose can do in the Playoffs before going off choosing Rose. Lebron even lead a team without guys like Boozer and Noah to 2 straight 60+ seasons.[/QUOTE]


Lebron has played with a guy exactly like Boozer (lmao) and a guy a lot like Noah (Varejao).

Rose also is cheaper, sells more jerseys, and is less drama.

All things Pax and Gar (and Chicago) value.

Bron would **** around and get blasted by some GD's talking about "check my stats." Rose knows how to manuever through Chicago.:lol

Also, what makes the Bulls so good is their AMAZING defense. What Rose offers this team, Lebron could offer exactly the same and even more. Bulls would be equally as good with Rose, Lebron, Wade or Kobe. Its their defense that makes them the team they are, not Rose.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]No, its not more efficient. Deng was getting to the line more per minute on the floor back in 07. That is more efficient.

You keep equating shooting more with getting to the line more. That is not how it works actually.

Anything to artificially drive up efficiency in some manner.

You keep saying TS is just about efficiency. Its not. Its about over valuing a 3.

FG% is just about efficiency from the field. its counts all makes and misses. thats all it does. if you want to look at free throws, look at FTA and percentage. not hard.

take two players:

25 points on 50% fg 85% ft on 7 attempts
25 points on 45% fg 85% ft on 7 attempts

The first player is more efficient. He's scoring his points while missing less shots. That is what efficiency is. Efficiency is about who misses less.

True Shooting could come in and depending on how many threes each take, could actually favor the 2nd player. How does that make sense? FG% accounts for all shots...both 2s and 3s.

True Shooting masks missed shots....which is the entire reason for having efficiency measures in the first place.[/QUOTE]
If TS% masks negatives, then only using FG% masks positives. Someone could shoot 6/12 and score 12 points, and another player could shoot 4/10 and 6/6 from the line for 14 points. Same amount of misses. Player A is viewed as having the better game because he shot 50%, player B is viewed as the chucker because he shot 40%. When people list stats, they only use FG% and never FTA/%, and 3PA/%. Do you consider Manu efficient this year? He's only shooting 43% but 2 of his 5.6 makes are 3s and he gets to the line 5+ times to go along with only 13 FGA.

Misses hurt, yeah. But do misses hurt when you score well on high volume?

And getting to the line more relative to your FGA is in fact part of efficiency because more of your scoring attempts consist of taking easier, higher percentage shots from the line instead of shots from the field.

[QUOTE=Nash]Also, what makes the Bulls so good is their AMAZING defense. What Rose offers this team, Lebron could offer exactly the same and even more. Bulls would be equally as good with Rose, Lebron, Wade or Kobe. Its their defense that makes them the team they are, not Rose.[/QUOTE]

We all know this.

I love how a team with Boozer, Deng, and Noah is now not better than the garbage Lebron had.

Only on ISH can this be true. Hilarious.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]Lebron has played with a guy exactly like Boozer (lmao) and a guy a lot like Noah (Varejao).

Rose also is cheaper, sells more jerseys, and is less drama.

All things Pax and Gar (and Chicago) value.

Bron would **** around and get blasted by some GD's talking about "check my stats." Rose knows how to manuever through Chicago.:lol[/QUOTE]
So you're telling me that Varejao is like Noah? Are you kidding me right now? And Boozer is an all star, who is the all star Lebron used to play with?

Also, financially, Lebron would bring in a lot more money than Rose ever would. Lebron and Kobe are on another level when it comes to marketing and bringing revenues. Lebron is a money machine and one of the most known athletes in the world.

when the Cavs and Mike Brown had one of if not THE best defense in the league no one discredit Lebron's MVP potential because of it.

No one said Jordan wasn't an MVP because the Bulls were the best defensive team in the NBA (and Scottie took the tough defensive assignment for Jordan a lot).

EVERY top team has a top defense.

The Celts had one last night and Rose torched them.


Ya'll kill me trying to discredit Rose's candidacy because of the teams's D.

D. Rose is a part of the team d so he should get part of the credit there as well should he not? We don't have a Scottie, Mutumbo, Dwight, or Russell on our team.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]1.) Deng is not the player you count on to score when you need it. He followed up a 40 point game this year with a dud. He used to disappear in games but you wouldn't know that because you look at stats and not game footage.

2.) No, he cannot get his own shot off against tough d. Not on a regular basis at all. You are wrong sir.


3.) His defense has improved, he is more consistent....in 07 he was not as good of a finisher as he is now....he's more consistent now, and he plays more minutes and has more confidence. (also things you can tell by WATCHING GAMES).[/QUOTE]

1 and 2) can't score when needed? funny, i believe he finished the heat off in their last two meetings. one a clutch 3, and the other getting to the rim, creating his own shot and getting to the line.

3) watching games, watching games, watching games. this is the new fad on here. finish the argument with 'if you actually watched the games'.
what exactly do you think people on a basketball forum do? watch beach volleyball?

[QUOTE=Nash]So you're telling me that Varejao is like Noah? Are you kidding me right now? And Boozer is an all star, who is the all star Lebron used to play with?

Also, financially, Lebron would bring in a lot more money than Rose ever would. Lebron and Kobe are on another level when it comes to marketing and bringing revenues. Lebron is a money machine and one of the most known athletes in the world.[/QUOTE]


Lebron played with Boozer silly....and he also played with Jamison (former All-Star) and Shaq.

Noah and varejoa have similar skillsets.

Lebron does not sell more jerseys than Rose.

Lebron could not put more butts in the seats than Rose--we already are #1 in attendance.

So who would he make more money for? The city? The team? Or himself?

[QUOTE=Go Getter]when the Cavs and Mike Brown had one of if not THE best defense in the league no one discredit Lebron's MVP potential because of it.

No one said Jordan wasn't an MVP because the Bulls were the best defensive team in the NBA (and Scottie took the tough defensive assignment for Jordan a lot).

EVERY top team has a top defense.

The Celts had one last night and Rose torched them.


Ya'll kill me trying to discredit Rose's candidacy because of the teams's D.

D. Rose is a part of the team d so he should get part of the credit there as well should he not? We don't have a Scottie, Mutumbo, Dwight, or Russell on our team.[/QUOTE]
Nobody is trying to discredit what Rose is doing, he will be the mvp. But being an all star isn't something that Lebron, Wade and Kobe can't achieve.

Also, you can't compare Bulls and Lebrons Cavs, no way man. Just the fact that Cleveland became THE WORST NBA TEAM IN HISTORY when Lebron left tells you a lot about what he was dealing with. Do you think that the Bulls would be the worst team in history if Rose left? Do you think a team with Noah, Deng and Boozer would be the worst in NBA history?

[QUOTE=Nash]Also, what makes the Bulls so good is their AMAZING defense. What Rose offers this team, Lebron could offer exactly the same and even more. Bulls would be equally as good with Rose, Lebron, Wade or Kobe. Its their defense that makes them the team they are, not Rose.[/QUOTE]


Lebron could not handle the ball as much as Rose with the same efficiency. He is not a PG, athlough he has the skills.

Rose offers a different style than the other players and the team would not be exactly the same with other stars in place of Rose.

maybe they'd be better in some cases...in others they would be worse.

But at 22 there is no way I'm trading him for Kobe, Wade, or yes, even Lebron.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]when the Cavs and Mike Brown had one of if not THE best defense in the league no one discredit Lebron's MVP potential because of it.

No one said Jordan wasn't an MVP because the Bulls were the best defensive team in the NBA (and Scottie took the tough defensive assignment for Jordan a lot).

EVERY top team has a top defense.

The Celts had one last night and Rose torched them.


Ya'll kill me trying to discredit Rose's candidacy because of the teams's D.

D. Rose is a part of the team d so he should get part of the credit there as well should he not? We don't have a Scottie, Mutumbo, Dwight, or Russell on our team.[/QUOTE]

both jordan and lebron actually played good defense. rose doesnt.

both jordan and lebron could expect a loss when they had a poor shooting night. rose can expect a win no matter how he plays.

rose this season is the only mvp candidate this season who plays better in losses than wins.

[QUOTE=chazzy]If TS% masks negatives, then only using FG% masks positives. Someone could shoot 6/12 and score 12 points, and another player could shoot 4/10 and 6/6 from the line for 14 points. Same amount of misses. Player A is viewed as having the better game because he shot 50%, player B is viewed as the chucker because he shot 40%. When people list stats, they only use FG% and never FTA/%, and 3PA/%. Do you consider Manu efficient this year? He's only shooting 43% but 2 of his 5.6 makes are 3s and he gets to the line 5+ times to go along with only 13 FGA

Misses hurt, yeah. But do misses hurt when you score well on high volume?[/QUOTE]

Which is why you should look at everything. Not just one or the other. Like I keep saying. In some cases...hell, in plenty of cases, TS% is as good or better of a measure than just fg%.

But i'm not using just fg%. I'm using everything. You, and others are proponents of just using TS%. In many cases it does not reflect what is really happening.

Which is why I prefer to look at all the raw data. It gives you a better idea.

If we are solely talking stats...this is what i would want to know.

FG% and attempts, 3pt percentage and attempts, FT% and attempts.

I think what many people ignore is that the PPG stat in and of itself is evident of many of these things when you combine i with fga. just from that we can see if a player is taking more threes or scoring a lot at the ft line.

My opinion overall is that TS is more flawed because it masks missed shots....and missed shots kill.

There are plenty of cases I'm sure you could find that TS is a better measure and vice versa.

In this case with Deng, the TS metric is valuing threes too much.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]when the Cavs and Mike Brown had one of if not THE best defense in the league no one discredit Lebron's MVP potential because of it.

No one said Jordan wasn't an MVP because the Bulls were the best defensive team in the NBA (and Scottie took the tough defensive assignment for Jordan a lot).

EVERY top team has a top defense.

The Celts had one last night and Rose torched them.


Ya'll kill me trying to discredit Rose's candidacy because of the teams's D.

D. Rose is a part of the team d so he should get part of the credit there as well should he not? We don't have a Scottie, Mutumbo, Dwight, or Russell on our team.[/QUOTE]
Well the criticism came more around a month ago when the bulls were 15th-18th in the league offensively.. they've improved since then. The reason why Lebron didn't hear any criticism for having a good defense is because he was a big part of why they were a good defense, and they had the 4th best offense to go along with it. Same with Jordan. Rose doesn't come close to those guys' defensive impact.

[QUOTE=Nash][B]Nobody is trying to discredit what Rose is doing[/B], he will be the mvp. But being an all star isn't something that Lebron, Wade and Kobe can't achieve.

Also, you can't compare Bulls and Lebrons Cavs, no way man. Just the fact that Cleveland became THE WORST NBA TEAM IN HISTORY when Lebron left tells you a lot about what he was dealing with. Do you think that the Bulls would be the worst team in history if Rose left? Do you think a team with Noah, Deng and Boozer would be the worst in NBA history?[/QUOTE]


Are you serious?:roll:


read the board man....there are TONS of people doing just that.

And the cavs didn't only lose Bron they lost their coach, they lost Shaq, they lost Mo, and Jamison is down for the year.

It's the Cav's fault for building around a guy who didn't respect them enough to tell them he wanted to be traded. He held the team hostage thinking he was coming back and burned them.

I wouldn't invest in a guy like that that's why I chose Rose.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]

Lebron does not sell more jerseys than Rose.

Lebron could not put more butts in the seats than Rose--we already are #1 in attendance.

So who would he make more money for? The city? The team? Or himself?[/QUOTE]

let me guess, with the sale of jerseys we actually have to watch them being sold instead of going off the stats, right? :oldlol: :oldlol:

and yeah, miami has the number 1 overall attendance based on home and away. :oldlol:

there is no point arguing with people who blatantly lie.

[QUOTE=chazzy]Well the criticism came more around a month ago when the bulls were 15th-18th in the league offensively.. they've improved since then. The reason why Lebron didn't hear any criticism for having a good defense is because he was a big part of why they were a good defense, and they had the 4th best offense to go along with it. Same with Jordan. Rose doesn't come close to those guys' defensive impact.[/QUOTE]


We weren't 15th-18th because Rose sucks....we wouldhave been worse WITHOUT Rose.

Bron's on ball defense (and off ball as of now) is extremely overrated.

Rose averages more blocks than Lebron right now.

[QUOTE=chazzy]Well the criticism came more around a month ago when the bulls were 15th-18th in the league offensively.. they've improved since then. The reason why Lebron didn't hear any criticism for having a good defense is because he was a big part of why they were a good defense, and they had the 4th best offense to go along with it. Same with Jordan. Rose doesn't come close to those guys' defensive impact.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]Lebron played with Boozer silly....and he also played with Jamison (former All-Star) and Shaq.

Noah and varejoa have similar skillsets.

Lebron does not sell more jerseys than Rose.

Lebron could not put more butts in the seats than Rose--we already are #1 in attendance.

So who would he make more money for? The city? The team? Or himself?[/QUOTE]
Are you really for real? Lebron played with Boozer for one season. Also, the Boozer of today is way better than the Boozer Lebron had.

And are you seriously comparing Noah and Verajao just cuz they have the same skillset? Thats like saying Igoudala could replace Lebron cuz Igoudala is the poor mans Lebron or that OJ Mayo can replace Kobe cuz they got the same skillset. You're delusional man.

Chicago is a sports town, people would show up if the team is doing good. Miami is a different city where they don't give a f*ck. If Lebron was playing for the Bulls the Chicago fans would buy anything he's a part of.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]We weren't 15th-18th because Rose sucks....we wouldhave been worse WITHOUT Rose.

Bron's on ball defense (and off ball as of now) is extremely overrated.

Rose averages more blocks than Lebron right now.[/QUOTE]

Nobody is saying Rose sucks though.

Of course you would have been far worse without Rose.

Please don't compare Rose's defensive impact to that of Lebron. Its light years apart at this point.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]We all know this.

I love how a team with Boozer, Deng, and Noah is now not better than the garbage Lebron had.

Only on ISH can this be true. Hilarious.[/QUOTE]


Cavs built around Bron.

He had knock down shooters and good defenders and a team that was built to play tough series in the post season.

When the chips were down HE failed to step up and made that lame excuse about his arm.

HE was garbage.

The team he had was good enough to reach the finals at least and he shrunk like a cold ball sack. It's nuts that people called that team garbage. They were a GREAT team.

He found it in himself to dance on the Bulls like an ass to make fun of us.

Now he looks stupid and i can't wait...I hope we knock their asses out the playoffs.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]
The first player is more efficient. He's scoring his points while missing less shots. That is what efficiency is. Efficiency is about who misses less.
.[/QUOTE]
What?

Efficiency is points scored divided by possessions used to get those points.

With this logic a 3pt shooter going 4/10 is less efficient than another player going 5/10 on 2pt field goals. One took 10 scoring opportunities to score 12 points and one took 10 opportunities to score 10 points despite the latter shooting 10% better FG. There's no way you can spin this to say the second player is more efficient.:oldlol:

Taking threes results in more misses which can give the opposing team more opportunities but at the same token, three pointers are some of the biggest momentum shifters in the game and anyone whose ever played basketball knows that it is a rythym game. They have their positives and their negatives.

It really comes down to what you value but all statistics have their place in the game. TS shows us how many opportunities it took a player to get his points.That is efficiency at it's rawest.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Nobody is saying Rose sucks though.
*I was being sarcastic*
Of course you would have been far worse without Rose.

Please don't compare Rose's defensive impact to that of Lebron. Its light years apart at this point.[/QUOTE]


Why is it?

Lebron has never been a lockdown defender on the perimeter, his merit always came from weak side blocks.

Now he doesn't even have more blocks than Rose.

Rose has played good to stellar d on some of the league's best point guards.

*In b4 egg head defensive rtg stat.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]Are you serious?:roll:


read the board man....there are TONS of people doing just that.

And the cavs didn't only lose Bron they lost their coach, they lost Shaq, they lost Mo, and Jamison is down for the year.

It's the Cav's fault for building around a guy who didn't respect them enough to tell them he wanted to be traded. He held the team hostage thinking he was coming back and burned them.

I wouldn't invest in a guy like that that's why I chose Rose.[/QUOTE]
Well I'm not discrediting Rose, I like Rose.

What? Mo was there when Cleveland became the worst team in history, so was Jamison. Also, a 39 year old Shaq has no effect on a team anymore. Cleveland would have still been the worst team in history with or without a 39 year old Shaq.

[QUOTE=Nash]Are you really for real? Lebron played with Boozer for one season. Also, the Boozer of today is way better than the Boozer Lebron had.

And are you seriously comparing Noah and Verajao just cuz they have the same skillset? Thats like saying Igoudala could replace Lebron cuz Igoudala is the poor mans Lebron or that OJ Mayo can replace Kobe cuz they got the same skillset. You're delusional man.

Chicago is a sports town, people would show up if the team is doing good. Miami is a different city where they don't give a f*ck. If Lebron was playing for the Bulls the Chicago fans would buy anything he's a part of.[/QUOTE]


You said he never played with guys like Booz and Noah and I proved you wrong.

Booz has been so so this year and not better than the year he held FA hostage for a big contract.

The jump from OJ to Kobe or AI to Bron is MUCH MUCH bigger than the jump from Varejao to Noah. Be real man.

Chicago is a sports town but we don't like certain types of guys.

Media icon or not, Bron doesn't sell more jerseys than Rose and he couldn't put more fans in the seats than Rose does.

We like rooting for a hometown kid....old ladies who know nothing about basketball tune in because we have the Chicago kid who made good out of a notoriously bad neighborhood.

[QUOTE=donald_trump]both jordan and lebron actually played good defense. rose doesnt.

both jordan and lebron could expect a loss when they had a poor shooting night. rose can expect a win no matter how he plays.

rose this season is the only mvp candidate this season who plays better in losses than wins.[/QUOTE]

Haha r u serious? This dude is the most idiotic and inscure poster here, along with Pauk and youcallIlose

[QUOTE=Nash]Well I'm not discrediting Rose, I like Rose.

What? Mo was there when Cleveland became the worst team in history, so was Jamison. Also, a 39 year old Shaq has no effect on a team anymore. Cleveland would have still been the worst team in history with or without a 39 year old Shaq.[/QUOTE]


Who knows what would have happened if they would have kept Mike Brown, Jamison was healthy, and they kept West and Mo?

They lost MUCH more than just Lebron man.

Rose is already one of the best players in the game at 22. All of these guys are insecure haters. They spend their whole day writing these BS comments, you guys dont have anything better to do? Your life must really be invaluable if you spend your whole day hating on a player on a forum. I could only do that for my fav. player, shows how much insecure you guys are of Rose. I hate Rondo and I never go into boards writing sh1t about it, cuz i know I got better things to put my time into. Its funny, are you guys going to do this for the next 15 years?

I know with success comes a bunch of haters, but damn you guys are not just haters, but losers.

[QUOTE=tpols]What?

Efficiency is points scored divided by possessions used to get those points.

With this logic a 3pt shooter going 4/10 is less efficient than another player going 5/10 on 2pt field goals. One took 10 scoring opportunities to score 12 points and one took 10 opportunities to score 10 points despite the latter shooting 10% better FG. There's no way you can spin this to say the second player is more efficient.:oldlol:

Taking threes results in more misses which can give the opposing team more opportunities but at the same token, three pointers are some of the biggest momentum shifters in the game and anyone whose ever played basketball knows that it is a rythym game. They have their positives and their negatives.

It really comes down to what you value but all statistics have their place in the game. TS shows us how many opportunities it took a player to get his points.That is efficiency at it's rawest.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. Efficiency at its rawest is counting makes and misses. Of course all things being equal and assuming the same number of points scored...

Like I have repeatedly said, in some instances (like straight three point shooters) TS does a great job.

However, if we are looking at scoring in general, i think the raw data is better than TS%.

Take Wade and Kobe. I would imagine there TS% numbers are pretty similar. However, Wade misses about 1 shot less than Kobe per game to get his points. That is huge in the grand scheme of things.

TS rewards players for settling for threes more than it should and manipulates data.

Why is it used on here when we can just as easily post everything. TS narrows the efficiency gap between players.

Deng in 07 shot 6% better from the field and 2.5% better from the ft line and missed less shots and scored more points than he did this year. Yet his ts% is only 1.2% different because of threes. That doesn't work for me.

I want the entire picture.

Without Rose, the bulls are a poor mans Milwaukee Bucks.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]You said he never played with guys like Booz and Noah and I proved you wrong.

Booz has been so so this year and not better than the year he held FA hostage for a big contract.

The jump from OJ to Kobe or AI to Bron is MUCH MUCH bigger than the jump from Varejao to Noah. Be real man.

Chicago is a sports town but we don't like certain types of guys.

Media icon or not, Bron doesn't sell more jerseys than Rose and he couldn't put more fans in the seats than Rose does.

We like rooting for a hometown kid....old ladies who know nothing about basketball tune in because we have the Chicago kid who made good out of a notoriously bad neighborhood.[/QUOTE]
But comparing the rookie Lebron and the Booz of back then to the Booz of now is not fair. Lebron wasn't going to win anything during his rookie season when he was 18. Put it like this, if Lebron had Noah instead of Shaq last season, Booz instead of Jamison and Deng instead of Parker you'd see a fair comparison.

Mo Williams
Lebron
Deng
Boozer
Noah

is so much better than..

Mo Williams
Anthony Parker
Lebron
Jamison
Shaq

Its not even a contest my man..

[QUOTE=DRose.IS.da.MAN]Rose is already one of the best players in the game at 22. All of these guys are insecure haters. They spend their whole day writing these BS comments, you guys dont have anything better to do? Your life must really be invaluable if you spend your whole day hating on a player on a forum. I could only do that for my fav. player, shows how much insecure you guys are of Rose. I hate Rondo and I never go into boards writing sh1t about it, cuz i know I got better things to put my time into. Its funny, are you guys going to do this for the next 15 years?

I know with success comes a bunch of haters, but damn you guys are not just haters, but losers.[/QUOTE]
Cool down, Rose is in fact one of the best players we have today. And he is the mvp.

Rose is going to teach LeBron that you have to earn a ring in the NBA, you dont just get it, just like he's been getting things easily his whole career because of ESPN and people like you guys on his nuts

Well Rose has done exactly what Bron has proven he can do, 1 seed in regular season and win MVP, so we have to wait until playoffs to answer that question.

[QUOTE=Nash]But comparing the rookie Lebron and the Booz of back then to the Booz of now is not fair. Lebron wasn't going to win anything during his rookie season when he was 18. Put it like this, if Lebron had Noah instead of Shaq last season, Booz instead of Jamison and Deng instead of Parker you'd see a fair comparison.

Mo Williams
Lebron
Deng
Boozer
Noah

is so much better than..

Mo Williams
Anthony Parker
Lebron
Jamison
Shaq

Its not even a contest my man..[/QUOTE]

Outcome will be the same in the Playoffs, LeBron will choke

[QUOTE=DRose.IS.da.MAN]Rose is going to teach LeBron that you have to earn a ring in the NBA, you dont just get it, just like he's been getting things easily his whole career because of ESPN and people like you guys on his nuts[/QUOTE]
Lebron has earned everything he has gotten cuz he's an amazing NBA player, not cuz ESPN has thrown him down our throats. The guy is averaging 26/7/7 with both Bosh and Wade which means less touches. Thats almost a triple double which is unheard of these days in basketball.

Just look at Lebron and Jordan for example.

Jordan shot 49.7% for his career. Lebron is at 47.9% for his career.
Jordan shot 83.5% from the ft line. Lebron shoots 74.4% from the ft line.
Jordan shot 32.7% from 3. Lebron shoots 32.9% from 3.

Lebron misses more shots overall to get his points and shoots 9% worse from the ft line.

True shooting?

Jordan 56.9%
Lebron 56.6%

Sorry, it doesn't add up. A .3% difference just does not do the reality of efficiency of each player justice. Its rewarding Lebron for jacking up a lot more threes.

Looking at all the raw data is much better than True Shooting.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]

Take Wade and Kobe. I would imagine there TS% numbers are pretty similar. However, Wade misses about 1 shot less than Kobe per game to get his points. That is huge in the grand scheme of things.
[/QUOTE]
Nah.. Wade's TS is considerably higher right now. And rightfully so. He is more efficient.

In their last couple playoff runs they have comparable efficiencies(TS) and rightfully so because kobe is a better 3pt shooter, and foul shooter than wade. If the players put the same amount of points on the board and they took up the same amount of their TEAM'S possessions to get those points than by the rawest measure of efficiency they were equal. It's literally the webster textbook definition. Ratio of work done/time allotted=Points/possessions to get points.

Just because you look at a 3pt shooter as having more misses being worse overall doesn't mean the literal definition of the word efficiency can be changed. There are positives and negatives to a player shooting more threes and as I stated before, one of them is that 3pt shooters routinely change the momentum of games as much as a spectacular break away crowd roaring dunk.

You're basically just giving us your opinion on what you think of extra misses..