[QUOTE=DWade06]don't be so quick to call Iverson the better scorer. he averaged 26 points on 22 shots. Wade averages 25 points on 18 shots.[/QUOTE]
How much more does Wade get to the line than prime 00-03 Iverson??
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[QUOTE=DWade06]don't be so quick to call Iverson the better scorer. he averaged 26 points on 22 shots. Wade averages 25 points on 18 shots.[/QUOTE]
How much more does Wade get to the line than prime 00-03 Iverson??
[QUOTE=Shih508]2 first round exit making him better player than AI as the only main scoring threat in a team for this kind of situation?
But i do agree with u wade mash better with better players. It also shows how amazing AI's ability to carrying a team.[/QUOTE]
Well, Wade didn't have anywhere near the amount of defensive talent around him that Iverson did when AI was leading his team out of the first round and no more offensive talent either, so his cast was worse and I wouldn't compare Spoelstra as a coach to Larry Brown either. Wade's teams were undersized while Iverson had an elite shot blocker/paint defender like Ratliff or Mutombo and then another double/double type guy in Tyrone Hill and great perimeter defenders like Eric Snow, George Lynch and Aaron McKie.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]How much more does Wade get to the line than prime 00-03 Iverson??[/QUOTE]
Iverson in his prime shot 11 free throws per game one season. that's more than Wade ever has. there you go smart ass:lol
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Well, Wade didn't have anywhere near the amount of defensive talent around him that Iverson did when AI was leading his team out of the first round and no more offensive talent either, so his cast was worse and I wouldn't compare Spoelstra as a coach to Larry Brown either. Wade's teams were undersized while Iverson had an elite shot blocker/paint defender like Ratliff or Mutombo and then another double/double type guy in Tyrone Hill and great perimeter defenders like Eric Snow, George Lynch and Aaron McKie.[/QUOTE]
now u are really overrating AI's supporting casts. Tyrone was at the end of his career, lynch was injured during that playoff that's why sixers had no one to guard Kobe besides rookie Raja bell.
[QUOTE=DWade06]Iverson in his prime shot 11 free throws per game one season. that's more than Wade ever has. there you go smart ass:lol[/QUOTE]
It was actually a serious question but good job with the failed sarcasm detector. I didn't look it up.. but I did have a suspicion that Wade got to the line more and apparently was wrong? Nonetheless Iverson= better scorer. Less efficient, more dependable, more explosive and harder to stop.
Wade is the better overall player for sure. As much as I despise him, I'd take Wade. That being said, I can see why one would pick A.I. I really miss watching him play.
[QUOTE=zay_24]AI led his team to the finals, what has wade done[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i25.tinypic.com/103tok7.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Lol I do find it funny that so many people here are disregarding the eras. It's exactly why very few call Bill Russell or Wilt the greatest player of all time. Jordan played against the best who have played the game. In the most physical era of all time. Against the best defenders of all time. In the era where refs let players play the most without bogus calls. Iverson came at the tail end of Jordan's Bulls career. Jordan retired after the 98 ring.. and AI was a rookie in 96. Iverson's prime of 00-01 was still in an elite league.
These teams would absolutely manhandle the teams in this era.
99-01 Blazers
00-03 Lakers
01-04 Kings
[B]00-03 Sixers[/B]99-05 Spurs
01-05 Pistons[/QUOTE]
GET OUT OF HERE.
The Sixers from 10 years ago would beat the Heat? Celtics? Bulls? THunder? Mavs? Lakers?
Old people and their "era" shit
[QUOTE=DWade06]Iverson in his prime shot 11 free throws per game one season. that's more than Wade ever has. there you go smart ass:lol[/QUOTE]
that's when rule was changed which Wade plays pretty much his whole career under that rule.
he took 7 more shots per game by getting 1 more FT at same year as Wade's ft high for a season. Do you honestly think Wade took that much more beating than AI during any year of AI's career? talking about D whistle
Wade 18.8 FGA for 10.7 FTA
AI 25.3 FGA for 11.5 FTA
AI's worst fg % year he was taking 28 FGA and only went to line 9.8 FT
talking about an easy scoring era
[QUOTE=Shih508]that's when rule was changed which Wade plays pretty much his whole career under that rule.
he took 7 more shots per game by getting 1 more FT at same year as Wade's ft high for a season. Do you honestly think Wade took that much more beating than AI during any year of AI's career? talking about D whistle
Wade 18.8 FGA for 10.7 FTA
AI 25.3 FGA for 11.5 FTA
AI's worst fg % year he was taking 28 FGA and only went to line 9.8 FT
talking about an easy scoring era[/QUOTE]
Good numbers. Good post.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Somewhat true.
However, not acknowledging how much easier perimeter players have it right now compared to the 90s or the early part of this 00's is just silly.
I'd take Wade over Iverson rather easily, but prime Iverson in this league since 05 would be putting up 35 a game if wanted to on much better efficiency.
Just look at what Iverson did in 06.
33 a game on 45% shooting.....54% true shooting.
Its not random that Iverson had his best scoring year in the same year the NBA really went overboard on the new rules.[/QUOTE]
I think the reason why Iverson FG% went up because of Webber give Iverson more lanes and space for him to do his thing. That hole hand checking thing got series in 2004-2005 season when Iverson still shots only 42%. Iverson's FG% dropped again once Webber wasnt in game shape that next season and then his FG% went back up playing for the Nuggets with Melo.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]GET OUT OF HERE.
The Sixers from 10 years ago would beat the Heat? Celtics? Bulls? THunder? Mavs? Lakers?
Old people and their "era" shit[/QUOTE]
this year's celtics, thunders, lakers, i'm pretty sure. Bulls/Mavs are a toss up. Heats depend on how choke lebron is!
remember, ur bulls this years is a tailor made 01 sixers lmao
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]GET OUT OF HERE.
The Sixers from 10 years ago would beat the Heat? Celtics? Bulls? THunder? Mavs? Lakers?
Old people and their "era" shit[/QUOTE]
Um dude.. Iverson's Sixers were basically what the Bulls are now but better. Iverson was better than Rose is now... Mutombo was WAY better than Noah and as a unit defensively the Sixers spank these Bulls. Yes Allen's Sixers could play with any of the teams you mentioned. If they could play with Shaq/Kobe Lakers at the peak.. why wouldn't they be able to? The year the Sixers went to the finals Mutombo won DPOY...
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]I think the reason [B][B]why Iverson FG% went up because of Webber give Iverson more lanes and space for him to do his thing. [/B][/B]Iverson's FG% dropped again once Webber wasnt in game shape that next season and then his FG% went back up playing for the Nuggets with Melo.[/QUOTE]
this just proves u really dunno shitz u are talking about, when webber was traded he's been virtually playing with one leg and getting reb off his teammates and playing 0 defense, what made u think sac would trade webber for 3 unknown no potential PFs.
[QUOTE=Shih508]now u are really overrating AI's supporting casts. Tyrone was at the end of his career, lynch was injured during that playoff that's why sixers had no one to guard Kobe besides rookie Raja bell.[/QUOTE]
Eric Snow guarded Kobe and Kobe said he was one of the toughest defenders he faced and look at Kobe's numbers vs Snow and then vs the other teams. He put up like 35 ppg on 47% vs Sacramento and an elite defender(Doug Christie), 33 ppg on 51%, iirc vs the league's best defensive team San Antonio and then 25 ppg on 41-42%, iirc vs Philly. Philly also had Aaron McKie to guard Kobe who was another very good defender. Hill put up 10/9 that year, a little better than his career numbers.
Wade didn't have a guy anywhere near Mutombo or Theo Ratliff's level blocking shots in 2009 or 2010 either. Nevermind that both were double digit scorers too, in fact, Mutombo averaged 14/14/3 in the 2001 playoffs and Aaron McKie also provided a more reliable offensive option at 15/5/5 than any of Wade's 2009 or 2010 teammates.
Iverson's 2001 cast was MUCH better than Wade's 2009 and 2010 casts, he also didn't have to always set up his teammates either because he had McKie and Snow, Wade didn't have another guy who could handle the ball and be a solid facilitator on the 2009 and 2010 teams.
Lets not act like Iverson got to the finals in a similar situation to Wade's in 2009 and 2010.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Eric Snow guarded Kobe and Kobe said he was one of the toughest defenders he faced and look at Kobe's numbers vs Snow and then vs the other teams. He put up like 35 ppg on 47% vs Sacramento and an elite defender(Doug Christie), 33 ppg on 51%, iirc vs the league's best defensive team San Antonio and then 25 ppg on 41-42%, iirc vs Philly. Philly also had Aaron McKie to guard Kobe who was another very good defender. Hill put up 10/9 that year, a little better than his career numbers.
Wade didn't have a guy anywhere near Mutombo or Tyrone Hill's level blocking shots in 2009 or 2010 either. Nevermind that both were double digit scorers too, in fact, Mutombo averaged 14/14/3 in the 2001 playoffs and Aaron McKie also provided a more reliable offensive option at 15/5/5 than any of Wade's 2009 or 2010 teammates.
Iverson's 2001 cast was MUCH better than Wade's 2009 and 2010 casts, he also didn't have to always set up his teammates either because he had McKie and Snow, Wade didn't have another guy who could handle the ball and be a solid facilitator on the 2009 and 2010 teams.
Lets not act like Iverson got to the finals in a similar situation to Wade's in 2009 and 2010.[/QUOTE]
i can point out many ppl who guards kobe better, and who believes what kobe says anyway
battier, artest, bowen, raja bell in pheonix year? a 23 yr kobe hadn't faced enuff good defender back then.
and if george lynch wasn't injured, he'd be the one guarding kobe not snow. kobe sounded more like making excuse for being out played by AI.
when ur 3rd best playey, 2nd offerensive threat is Aaron Mckie. it's really no argument to say AI had a great supporting casts. Just a good enuff one to complement AI who's hard to build around.
Tyrone hill wasn't a shock blocker in sixers years, if you really dunno wat u are talking about u should not talk
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Um dude.. Iverson's Sixers were basically what the Bulls are now but better. Iverson was better than Rose is now... Mutombo was WAY better than Noah and as a unit defensively the Sixers spank these Bulls. Yes Allen's Sixers could play with any of the teams you mentioned. If they could play with Shaq/Kobe Lakers at the peak.. why wouldn't they be able to? The year the Sixers went to the finals Mutombo won DPOY...[/QUOTE]
The East was f*cking horrible back then. There was only 1 other team that won more than 50+ games and that was the Bucks. The Bulls played the Heat and Celtics 7 times... both team shits on Iverson's 01 sixers.
What was the Sixers record in 2001 Vs west teams? 16-12?
Wade is a more efficient scorer, better or at least more willing passer, and a better defender.
Iverson has a higher offensive ceiling, but he routinely is so poor in terms of efficiency so who cares.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]The East was f*cking horrible back then. There was only 1 other team that won more than 50+ games and that was the Bucks. The Bulls played the Heat and Celtics 7 times... both team shits on Iverson's 01 sixers.
What was the Sixers record in 2001 Vs west teams? 16-12?[/QUOTE]
besides top 4 teams, east this year is horrible too. and west is weaker, u dun get ur season record by only playing ur conference, u play them both.
west was stacked back them, primie duncan, shaq/kobe, nash/nowitzki, malone/stockton, and pippen/rasheed/smith portland, webber/peja/divac
all we all know what David Stern favor!
his handpicking superstars and big cities... inflated accomplishments
[QUOTE=Shih508]i can point out many ppl who guards kobe better, and who believes what kobe says anyway
battier, artest, bowen, raja bell in pheonix year? a 23 yr kobe hadn't faced enuff good defender back then.
and if george lynch wasn't injured, he'd be the one guarding kobe not snow. kobe sounded more like making excuse for being out played by AI.
when ur 3rd best playey, 2nd offerensive threat is Aaron Mckie. it's really no argument to say AI had a great supporting casts. Just a good enuff one to complement AI who's hard to build around.
Tyrone hill wasn't a shock blocker in sixers years, if you really dunno wat u are talking about u should not talk[/QUOTE]
Talent wise, they weren't "great", though they complemented him very well, but they were a lot better than what Wade had in 2009 and 2010, that's not even debatable.
And again, you give Wade a guy like even Miami Shaq and you get a championship contender and as it turned out a ring, could've been 2 if not for injuries. You give Wade Lebron and Bosh and you get an instant contender, and imo, they look like the favorite.
The difference is that even though Iverson didn't play with that type of talent, I don't think he's a good fit around other elite scorers and that's why Wade is a better player, you have a better chance of winning with him, and that's the point of the game, to win. And I don't see any reason to take Iverson over Wade to carry a team either.
[QUOTE=Shih508]besides top 4 teams, east this year is horrible too. and west is weaker, u dun get ur season record by only playing ur conference, u play them both.
west was stacked back them, primie duncan, shaq/kobe, nash/nowitzki, malone/stockton, and pippen/rasheed/smith portland, webber/peja/divac[/QUOTE]
The East this season was better than it was in the last 5 or 7 years. Those teams in the west were good enough for the Lakers to finish 11-0 :rolleyes: The Mavs werent [B]that [/B]good in 2001, Jailblazers fell apart, and the Jazz were REALLY old. The Heat and Celtics would tear all of those teams up.
Bigsmoke, as much as i like D-rose, he's my 3rd favorite player after MJ and AI.
look at his STATS in his mvp season, his fg% has dropped dramatically cuz his taking a bigger role on his team's scoring. you should know better without ref's whistle, it's hard for slasher like AI, Wade or Rose to have great efficient on scoring.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]The East this season was better than it was in the last 5 or 7 years. Those teams in the west were good enough for the Lakers to finish 11-0 :rolleyes: The Mavs werent [B]that [/B]good in 2001, Jailblazers fell apart, and the Jazz were REALLY old. The Heat and[B] Celtics[/B] would tear all of those teams up.[/QUOTE]
u really sure celtics this year is any better than those teams u mentioned? haven't heard jailblazers till mo cheeks era. mav didn't stand out cuz their conference was so stacked. Jazz can prolly tear apart east 4-15 this year lmao.
Smoke as a fan of Derrick Rose... I would think you'd have the ultimate respect for Iverson. Both teams are built almost identically. Rose is what 6'2 200 pounds? Iverson was 5'11-6'0 and 165 doing MORE than what Rose is doing in a similar situation.
league today is much weaker than before. that's why garnett is still one of better defender in this league without nothing he had in the past. it's the softest era!
Wade and wouldn't think twice about it
[QUOTE=Shih508]league today is much weaker than before. that's why garnett is still one of better defender in this league without nothing he had in the past. it's the softest era![/QUOTE]
you old people are so annoying.
thats all you people with all that ":blah :blah is better than :blah :blah because of the era it played in"
lol @ saying teams in 2001 were better than 2011. The Lakers were amazing that season and thats it.
[QUOTE=Shih508]league today is much weaker than before. that's why garnett is still one of better defender in this league without nothing he had in the past. it's the softest era![/QUOTE]
Yea if 34 year old KG can still be a shut down defender in this era it definitely is soft and weaker.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Yea if 34 year old KG can still be a shut down defender in this era it definitely is soft and weaker.[/QUOTE]
Karl Malone at 36 won an MVP award in this "Iverson era"
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]Karl Malone at 36 won an MVP award in this "Iverson era"[/QUOTE]
Malone was really putting up mvp like #s. he was better than he ever was. but when u look at kg it's whole different story.... everyone who watched kg before know kg is shell of his old self and hes still dominating this league in defense
do u ever think malone may take steroid? and that was 1997 rite? a year before mcgwuire and sosa hr record setting year? players back then seems to held their prim well till their late 30's. look at today, all superstars start playing like shit when they hitting age 32-33. drug enhancement is another story.
but kid, everything u know is what u heard but not what u see.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]Karl Malone at 36 won an MVP award in this "Iverson era"[/QUOTE]
Jordan won finals MVP and dominated the playoffs in 98 at 36. Your point? As Shih said... players stayed in their prime longer back then. This is a more athletic, less fundamental league AND most of the elite players in the game in the last decade came straight out of HS or were one and done. Meaning they didn't go to college for 2+ years like the elite players of the 80's and 90's. I mean look at Kobe. He's 32 and is a 16 year vet and is already slowing down. It has to do with the mileage and what kind of mileage, not the years or age.
wade and its not even close.
you maybe can make a case for iverson being a better scorer, but its marginal at best. imo, his inefficiency makes his scoring overrated.
but on defense, wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iverson
and bball IQ, wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iverson.
[QUOTE=f0und]wade and its not even close.
you maybe can make a case for iverson being a better scorer, but its marginal at best. imo, his inefficiency makes his scoring overrated.
but on defense, wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iverson
and bball IQ, wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iverson.[/QUOTE]
Please don't try to act analytical and sh!t when you're actually making no sense at all.
Rings doesn't reliable for players like Iverson.
He played mostly with average or below average players and coaches in his prime. Only players can be considered as really good was 34-35 years old Mutombo and coach L.Brown. He won MVP,reached finals and heroic games in all playoffs and finals. When you look at players with rings..you see usually other great players around them.From Russell to Jordan, from Kobe to Wade. Kobe,Wade,Garnett,Lebron,Jordan,Wilt without great players couldn't win championship.It's no brainer.
Wade played with 32 years old Shaq with Pat Riley as coach. Now he is playing with 26 years old Lebron and 27 years old Bosh. Shaq was still considered best center in those years. Lebron is considered as best player in the league and Chris Bosh considered as franchise player.
Iverson played with mostly below average teammates and coaches but one great center while Wade has played probably 2 of top ten players of all time so far.
[QUOTE=rodman91]Rings doesn't reliable for players like Iverson.
He played mostly with average or below average players and coaches in his prime. Only players can be considered as really good was 34-35 years old Mutombo and coach L.Brown. He won MVP,reached finals and heroic games in all playoffs and finals. When you look at players with rings..you see usually other great players around them.From Russell to Jordan, from Kobe to Wade. Kobe,Wade,Garnett,Lebron,Jordan,Wilt without great players couldn't win championship.It's no brainer.
Wade played with 32 years old Shaq with Pat Riley as coach. Now he is playing with 26 years old Lebron and 27 years old Bosh. Shaq was still considered best center in those years. Lebron is considered as best player in the league and Chris Bosh considered as franchise player.
Iverson played with mostly below average teammates and coaches but one great center while Wade has played probably 2 of [B]top ten players of all time so far.[/QUOTE][/B]
:facepalm :hammerhead:
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]you old people are so annoying.
thats all you people with all that ":blah :blah is better than :blah :blah because of the era it played in"
lol @ saying teams in 2001 were better than 2011. The Lakers were amazing that season and thats it.[/QUOTE]
first, i'm probably a lot younger than you. it just so happened i started watching ball when i was in 3rd grade.
the physicality of the early 2000s was far more intense than today's. you could give hard, playoff fouls on a regular basis without worrying about a possible flagrant or suspension. a "declining" AI put up 26/7 on a nightly basis in 2007-08. just imagine what he would do today if he was in his prime.
[QUOTE=Nobler][/B]
:facepalm :hammerhead:[/QUOTE]
Shaq is in top 10.
Lebron has great chance to be in top 10. at 26 he has already 2 mvp.And other seasons as mvp candidate. If he gets some rings he has chance to be considered in top 10. Even if he can't he is considered as best or at least top 3 player in the league. Iverson has never had such a chance.Only 34 years old Mutombo (he was still a good player but not as good as before)
Right now I would say Wade will have the better career and Iverson the better peak individual season.
Its close AI is easily the better scorer and Wade is the better defender there about the same as passers. I would rather have Wade cause he is easier to build around.
Wade improved on Iverson's imprint on the League. Wade is so much more unselfish then Iverson. But if there was no Iverson there will be no Wade.