Analysis and reactions to Deron Williams signing with team in Turkey

[QUOTE=bletchley]2 of the best teams of the euroleague are efes pilsen and fenerbahce and they are turkish teams
and deron could be the mvp of euroleague, it is not that diffcult at all[/QUOTE]

Chances of Williams being Euroleague MVP IF he played there his first season (which he won't) are about 2-5 percent at most.

Of course that is why he chose to play in Europe's version of the D League instead.

Also, Efes and Fener are NOT two of the best teams in Euroleague. They are no more than average.

[QUOTE=kNIOKAS]you're such a dum. there is different game in europe than in nba. different rules dictate different requirements. how can't you grasp that. ignorant dork.[/QUOTE]

Sure it is a different game, no arguing that but I also think there is no arguing that Deron Williams is a much more talented player than Anthony Parker and I see no reason why he wouldnt dominate in the Euroleague. Im sure it would take a little adjusting but come on, to think that Deron Williams wouldn't be the best player in the Euroleague is just ignorant.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]Chances of Williams being Euroleague MVP IF he played there his first season (which he won't) are about 95% percent at worst.

He chose Turkey as to not embarass the Euroleague with his dominance.[/QUOTE]

Damn, strong words from Euroleague. Don't mince words there.

[QUOTE=b1imtf]In before Euroleague says he'll suck[/QUOTE]
:lol can't wait

[QUOTE=Sampsonsimpson]Sure it is a different game, no arguing that but I also think there is no arguing that Deron Williams is a much more talented player than Anthony Parker and I see no reason why he wouldnt dominate in the Euroleague. Im sure it would take a little adjusting but come on, to think that Deron Williams wouldn't be the best player in the Euroleague is just ignorant.[/QUOTE]

First of all, Deron Williams cannot dominate the Euroleague because he will not play in the Euroleague.

Secondly, unlike the NBA, the Euroleague has a true zone defense and not the half pseudo zone that the NBA allows. The Euroleague refs allow way more physical contact and call way less fouls.

There is no defensive 3 second violation in the Euroleague. There is not a no hand checking rule in the Euroleague. You can hand check all you want on guards.

The defenders are allowed to hip check and shoulder block into the offensive point guard when he has the ball on the perimeter.

There will be 1 or 2 6-10 to 7 feet or taller guys camped in the lane under the basket virtually the entire game...........

On offense you are NOT allowed to palm the ball. You are NOT allowed to make an offensive move until your dribble hits the court. You are NOT allowed to take more than 2.5 steps, if you catch the ball in movement, and NOT more than 2 steps if you start with the ball in your hands.

You are NOT allowed to move your pivot foot until your dribble hits the court, and only then can you make a move, and then you can only make 2 steps without a dribble.

Also, generally speaking, the players are much more physical in the Euroleague than they are in the NBA. And in the case of the point guard position, the point guards in the Euroleague are much bigger than NBA point guards are.

Deron Williams is a big point guard in the NBA. In the Euroleague he would be average, to maybe even below average in size. In the Euroleague defense is much more important and played with much more effort.

Euroleague games are played with much more intensity than NBA regular season games are. In the Euroleague the games start right away at the beginning of the season with physicality, hard defense, and intensity. In the NBA that starts basically at the playoffs.

Of course, Deron Williams will not be playing in Euroleague. He will be playing in the Eurocup, if his team manages to qualify and in the TBL. But the point is that the Euroleague is not the NBA.

The Euroleague (where Williams won't actually be playing) is the exact opposite of the NBA. The Euroleague is a hard, physical, intense, defense oriented league, with rules and reffing that make it a much harder brand of basketball to play.

It is not like the NBA, which is basically sports entertainment.

The myths that Americans have about the Euroleague are quite comical.

[QUOTE=bletchley]2 of the [B]best teams[/B] of the euroleague are efes pilsen and fenerbahce and they are turkish teams
and deron could be the mvp of euroleague, it is not that diffcult at all[/QUOTE]
Where did you get this stuff?

[QUOTE=Euroleague]then can you make a move, and then you can only make 2 dribbles.[/QUOTE]

This doesn't sound right.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]First of all, Deron Williams cannot dominate the Euroleague because he will not play in the Euroleague.

Secondly, unlike the NBA, the Euroleague has a true zone defense and not the half pseudo zone that the NBA allows. The Euroleague refs allow way more physical contact and call way less fouls.

There is no defensive 3 second violation in the Euroleague. There is not a no hand checking rule in the Euroleague. You can hand check all you want on guards.

The defenders are allowed to hip check and shoulder block into the offensive point guard when he has the ball on the perimeter.

There will be 1 or 2 6-10 to 7 feet or taller guys camped in the lane under the basket virtually the entire game...........

On offense you are NOT allowed to palm the ball. You are NOT allowed to make an offensive move until your dribble hits the court. You are NOT allowed to take more than 2.5 steps, if you catch the ball in movement, and NOT more than 2 steps if you start with the ball in your hands.

You are NOT allowed to move your pivot foot until your dribble hits the court, and only then can you make a move, and then you can only make 2 dribbles.

Also, generally speaking, the players are much more physical in the Euroleague than they are in the NBA. And in the case of the point guard position, the point guards in the Euroleague are much bigger than NBA point guards are.

Deron Williams is a big point guard in the NBA. In the Euroleague he would be average, to maybe even below average in size. In the Euroleague defense is much more important and played with much more effort.

Euroleague games are played with much more intensity than NBA regular season games are. In the Euroleague the games start right away at the beginning of the season with physicality, hard defense, and intensity. In the NBA that starts basically at the playoffs.

Of course, Deron Williams will not be playing in Euroleague. He will be playing in the Eurocup, if his team manages to qualify and in the TBL. But the point is that the Euroleague is not the NBA.

The Euroleague (where Williams won't actually be playing) is the exact opposite of the NBA. The Euroleague is a hard, physical, intense, defense oriented league, with rules and reffing that make it a much harder brand of basketball to play.

It is not like the NBA, which is basically sports entertainment.

The myths that Americans have about the Euroleague are quite comical.[/QUOTE]

This is actually a great, great post. Well most of it atleast.

You guys in here keep mocking the Euroleague poster above and the league itself while your own knowledge about European basketball is laughable to say the least. You don't know the rules, how the league is built, the players, the defense. And yet you throw around the "Anthony Parker 2x MVP" joke like you know shit :wtf:

The lockout has had a purpose for me atleast, exposing the ignorance and arrogance of NBA fans and what they know about the outside world of basketball. My god. :facepalm

[QUOTE=Sampsonsimpson]Sure it is a different game, no arguing that but I also think there is no arguing that Deron Williams is a much more talented player than Anthony Parker and I see no reason why he wouldnt dominate in the Euroleague. Im sure it would take a little adjusting but come on, to think that Deron Williams wouldn't be the best player in the Euroleague is just ignorant.[/QUOTE]
Ok, lets wait and see. I'm saying it's 40% chance he'll have TOP 5 stats in the league (which is not euroleague but different). So I'm like betting with knowing I'm slightly favoured. And are you saying he'll be TOP 5 or TOP 3 or MVP like?

Deron played against a top 8 euroleague team last year and dominated as expected.16 points on 5/8 fgs ,5 assists in 24 minutes against Real Madrid.I watched the game and it was more dominant performace than what the boxscore showed.He was drivin and dishing at will,noone could stay in front of him.

Seriously it's an insult to common sense to suggest that arguably the best point guard in the world,the player with the most 20-20 performances in last years, can not win the euroleague mvp award if given the proper time to adjust (1-2 months) and a relatively strong roster around him.

[QUOTE=pgm]This doesn't sound right.[/QUOTE]

Yea does he mean two steps? but that still doesn't make much sense... I don't believe they limit the amount of dribbles...

so basically, as long as deron is careful with his feet, so he doesnt travel, and is a little more careful with palming, he'll be the best player in europe.

how come none none of these things slowed him down in the olympics?

You should take everything Euroleague writes with a grin of salt.Fiba refs are no stricter in enforcing palming than Nba ones.They call it rarely,and it's not because euroleague guards don't palm.Drew Nicholas a guard of euroleague champions Panathinaikos palms the ball in every dribble he makes and never gets called for that.They're stricter when it comes to travelling,that's true but thats' not out of pure love for the rules.If that was the case they wouldn't allow the hundrends of illegal screens than go unpunished in every euroleague game.You think Garnett is bad?Watch Mike Batiste or Felipe Reyes,the best ass-screeners in the world.

[QUOTE=Jon_Koncak]You should take everything Euroleague writes with a grin of salt.Fiba refs are no stricter in enforcing palming than Nba ones.They call it rarely,and it's not because euroleague guards don't palm.Drew Nicholas a guard of euroleague champions Panathinaikos palms the ball in every dribble he makes and never gets called for that.They're stricter when it comes to travelling,that's true but thats' not out of pure love for the rules.If that was the case they wouldn't allow the hundrends of illegal screens than go unpunished in every euroleague game.You think Garnett is bad?Watch Mike Batiste or Felipe Reyes,the best ass-screeners in the world.[/QUOTE]


i dont really watch any euroleague, but are their rules any different from the rules at the 08 olympics?

[QUOTE=chips93]i dont really watch any euroleague, but are their rules any different from the rules at the 08 olympics?[/QUOTE]

The answer is no, but oh boy. You are opening a can of worms. :oldlol:

Lakas is going to post a massive rant now on how the referees at the Olympics were systematically ignoring team USA traveling violations and calling the entire game in favor of the US.

no it's the same rules.

[QUOTE=GilZero]This is actually a great, great post. Well most of it atleast.

You guys in here keep mocking the Euroleague poster above and the league itself while your own knowledge about European basketball is laughable to say the least. You don't know the rules, how the league is built, the players, the defense. And yet you throw around the "Anthony Parker 2x MVP" joke like you know shit :wtf:

The lockout has had a purpose for me atleast, exposing the ignorance and arrogance of NBA fans and what they know about the outside world of basketball. My god. :facepalm[/QUOTE]

That's what happens when you talk so much nonsense over a longer period of time, people will stop listening.


What if I told you that "Euroleague" not too long ago said that the reason black people in the US are more athletic than other people in the US is because they eat more chicken which is filled with roids, injectected testosterone or whatever it was.
Would you find a person who said stuff like this with a straight face credible at all?

[QUOTE=LJJ]The answer is no, but oh boy. You are opening a can of worms. :oldlol:

Lakas is going to post a massive rant now on how the referees at the Olympics were systematically ignoring team USA traveling violations and calling the entire game in favor of the US.[/QUOTE]

thankfully i have euroleague on ignore.

After Utah and New Jersey, his family will love Istanbul. It's a great city. I think playing overseas would be a good way for him to find his groove back after the wrist injury. I'm cool with it as long as he comes back whenever the lockout is over.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]That's what happens when you talk so much nonsense over a longer period of time, people will stop listening.


What if I told you that "Euroleague" not too long ago said that the reason black people in the US are more athletic than other people in the US is because they eat more chicken which is filled with roids, injectected testosterone or whatever it was.
Would you find a person who said stuff like this with a straight face credible at all?[/QUOTE]

I thought that just gave them bigger breasts?

Good for him & family. Istanbul is heaven for foreign players.

[QUOTE=Jon_Koncak]Deron played against a top 8 euroleague team last year and dominated as expected.16 points on 5/8 fgs ,5 assists in 24 minutes against Real Madrid.I watched the game and it was more dominant performace than what the boxscore showed.He was drivin and dishing at will,noone could stay in front of him.

Seriously it's an insult to common sense to suggest that arguably the best point guard in the world,the player with the most 20-20 performances in last years, can not win the euroleague mvp award if given the proper time to adjust (1-2 months) and a relatively strong roster around him.[/QUOTE]

[B]That was under mixed NBA rules, not Euroleague rules.[/B] And Sergio Llull (who was mainly guarding him in that game) is the worst defender at guard in the Euroleague. Even Jasikevicius is better than him on defense.

[QUOTE=chips93]so basically, as long as deron is careful with his feet, so he doesnt travel, and is a little more careful with palming, he'll be the best player in europe.

how come none none of these things slowed him down in the olympics?[/QUOTE]

They don't call travels on Team USA at the Olympics. Maybe 1 out of 20.

They enforce the rules in Euroleague.

[QUOTE=Jon_Koncak]You should take everything Euroleague writes with a grin of salt.Fiba refs are no stricter in enforcing palming than Nba ones.They call it rarely,and it's not because euroleague guards don't palm.Drew Nicholas a guard of euroleague champions Panathinaikos palms the ball in every dribble he makes and never gets called for that.They're stricter when it comes to travelling,that's true but thats' not out of pure love for the rules.If that was the case they wouldn't allow the hundrends of illegal screens than go unpunished in every euroleague game.You think Garnett is bad?Watch Mike Batiste or Felipe Reyes,the best ass-screeners in the world.[/QUOTE]

Moving screens are legal in Euroleague. Why would they call fouls when it is legal?

[QUOTE=chips93]i dont really watch any euroleague, but are their rules any different from the rules at the 08 olympics?[/QUOTE]

Yes. The Olympic refs will NOT enforce travel rules on Team USA. Neither will the FIBA refs at the World Championship. They might call 1 out of 20 travels on Team USA, versus how the NBA might call 1 out of 1,000.

The ULEB refs (Euroleague/Eurocup) will enforce the travel rules. 2 out of 3 travels, at least, will be called.

[QUOTE=Jon_Koncak]no it's the same rules.[/QUOTE]

The Olympic refs do NOT enforce those traveling rules against Team USA. So, no, it is NOT the same at all. Not even remotely.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]Moving screens are legal in Euroleague. Why would they call fouls when it is legal?[/QUOTE]

Lol no.

And I've actually played ball in Europe and don't live in Arkansas.

[QUOTE=LJJ]Lol no.[/QUOTE]

Moving screens are perfectly legal in Euroleague.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]Moving screens are perfectly legal in Euroleague.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/153wnk7.jpg[/IMG]

Now shut up you fukcing inbred Arkansas piece of shit.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]Moving screens are perfectly legal in Euroleague.[/QUOTE]
Wow you know nothing about fundamental basketball. You can say they are lax on calling moving screens but clearly they are illegal, it would be like rugby if they were not. You'd have lead blockers.

[QUOTE=LJJ][IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/153wnk7.jpg[/IMG]

Now shut up you fukcing inbred Arkansas piece of shit.[/QUOTE]

Moving screens are legal in Euroleague. The Euroleague has nothing to do with FIBA.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]Moving screens are legal in Euroleague. The Euroleague has nothing to do with FIBA, genius.[/QUOTE]
You can't have a game of basketball if moving screens are all perfectly legal. It would be a scrum. Think about it for a second.

[QUOTE=niko]Wow you know nothing about fundamental basketball. You can say they are lax on calling moving screens but clearly they are illegal, it would be like rugby if they were not. You'd have lead blockers.[/QUOTE]

The Euroleague has never considered a moving screen to be illegal. Ever since it started 10 years ago this has been the case.

Like I have said over and over, the Euroleague is way more physical than the NBA is.

[QUOTE=niko]You can't have a game of basketball if moving screens are all perfectly legal. It would be a scrum. Think about it for a second.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, you have never seen a Euroleague game. Moving screens are legal, and perfectly common place in every Euroleague game. It is a much more physical league than the NBA is.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]The Euroleague has never considered a moving screen to be illegal. Ever since it started 10 years ago this has been the case.

Like I have said over and over, the Euroleague is way more physical than the NBA is.[/QUOTE]
it would be football, not basketball. You've never played ball have you. Again, you might say they are lax calling it but saying they are legal is stupid. It's just illogical.

[QUOTE=niko]it would be football, not basketball. You've never played ball have you. Again, you might say they are lax calling it but saying they are legal is stupid. It's just illogical.[/QUOTE]

Once again, they are legal in the Euroleague and every single game has them. The rules of enforcement dictate that they are legal in Euroleague.

Just like the rules of enforcement do not allow them in NBA, or that the rules of enforcement in FIBA allow Team USA to travel, but not the other teams.

So what makes FIBA different than Euroleague in terms of rules?

New game rules for the 2010-11 season


VIDEO: BC Khimki coach Sergio Scariolo analyzes new rules
Beginning with the 2010-11 Turkish Airlines Euroleague Qualifying Rounds on Tuesday, Euroleague Basketball joins the international basketball community in observing and instituting several important new rules. The changes to the Official Basketball Rules were originally voted on by the FIBA Central Board in April 2008, with most targeted to take effect now, following the 2010 World Championships. The changes are meant to move basketball closer to a single set of rules governing how the game is played everywhere in the world. Among the major changes being enacted, three-point shots will be longer and the trapezoid-shaped zone between the free throw line and the basket will become rectangular.

The new three-point arc is situated 6.75 meters away from the basket, one-half meter further away than the 6.25-meter line that has been in use until now in Euroleague Basketball competitions. (The three-point shot distance will be shorter in the corners to accomodate a minimum separation space of .90 meters from the sideline). Another new marking on the playing surface indicates throw-in areas on the sidelines, from where a team may inbound the ball following a timeout in the last two minutes of a game or in an overtime period. Another feature of the rule changes, no-charge semicircles under each basket, were implemented by Euroleague Basketball previously.

Another new rule states that on non-shooting fouls or violations by a defensive team that is not yet in the foul bonus, and when the attacking team has already crossed the halfcourt line, the 24-second clock will not be reset to 24 seconds. Rather, if 14 or more seconds remain, the clock will not be adjusted. If 13 or fewer seconds remain, the clock will be reset to 14 seconds.

OFFICIAL BASKETBALL RULES 2010:

Art. 2.2.3 Free-throw lines and restricted areas

The restricted areas shall be the floor rectangle areas marked on the playing court.

The restricted (three-second) area shall be a rectangle (not anymore a trapezoid) as per Diagram 1 below.

Art. 2.2.4 Three-point field goal area

The distance of the three-point line shall be 6.75 m (and not 6.25 m as present).

Art. 2.2.6 Throw-in side lines

The two (2) small lines shall be marked outside the court, on the opposite side of the scorer's table and the team bench areas, with the outer edge at the distance of 8,325 m from the inside edge of the end lines; in other words, level to the top of the three-point line.

During the last two (2) minutes of the game and of the extra period, following the time-out granted to the team that has been entitled to the possession of the ball from its backcourt, the subsequent throw-in will be taken on the opposite side of the scorer's table from the "throw-in side line" and not as presently from the centre line extended.

Art. 2.2.7 No-charge semicircles

The no-charge semicircles shall be marked on the playing court, under the baskets. The distance of the inner edge of the semicircles shall be 1,25 m from the centre of the basket (on the floor).

A charging (offensive) foul should never be called if the contact by the offensive player is with the defensive player standing within the no-charge semicircle.

Art. 29 Twenty-four seconds

If the throw-in is to be administered in the backcourt, if required by the respective rules, the 24 second device shall be reset to 24 seconds.

If the throw-in is to be administered in the frontcourt, if required by the respective rules, the 24-second device shall be reset as follows:

- If 14 seconds or more are displayed on the 24-second device at the time the game was stopped, the 24-second device shall not be reset and shall remain the same.

- If 13 seconds or less are displayed on the 24-second device at the time the game was stopped, the 24-second device shall be reset to 14 seconds.

For a clearer visualization of the first four changes above, please refer to the Diagram 1.

[url]http://www.euroleague.net/features/voices/2010-2011/flavio-tranquillo/i/83731/5281/battle-of-wills[/url]

[quote]the very same Batista was called for an offensive foul caused by a moving screen 10 meters from the basket.[/quote]

I guess this is a different Euroleague? **shrugs shoulders**

The Euroleague is NOT FIBA. That is what makes it different. Anyone saying that moving screens are illegal in Euroleague has proven here that they have never in their entire life ever seen a single Euroleague game.

niko has regularly said in this forum that he watches Euroleague games, but he proves here that he has not. Because if he had seen even one Euroleague game, he would know that the refs will not call you for a moving screen.

Will they call it in a FIBA tournament? Not always, but usually. They will not call it in a Euroleague game and never has it been called as long as I can remember since the league formed.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]Once again, they are legal in the Euroleague and every single game has them. The rules of enforcement dictate that they are legal in Euroleague.

Just like the rules of enforcement do not allow them in NBA, or that the rules of enforcement in FIBA allow Team USA to travel, but not the other teams.[/QUOTE]
We are not talking about team usa and your fantasy of olympic cheating. Do that on your own time. We are talking about moving screens. You are full of shit if you say they are legal in the rule book. They definitely have to call some moving screens, if not there would be no flow, it would not be physical, it would be a scrum. I always knew you were making shit up but i never realized before you weren't someone who ever played. You're a stat nerd. I'm ashamed to have spoke to you so much.