#11 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[QUOTE=pauk]Lying? What did i lie about? You just voted a less accomplished player over Lebron didnt you? Thats the only thing i touched.... and its fine, its your opinion, i just showed you with facts its a stupid opinion while you retaliated with insults instead of proving to me/us with factual proof to why your opinion is as it is, but its your opinion, so what the hell...[/QUOTE]

Once again, since you always insist on ignoring the points of any argument a poster engages with you:

1. Why don't you explain why you continue to use awards to compare Lebron to old legends such as Oscar and Jerry, when you very well know those awards did not exist in the era those legends played.
(I'll answer that question for you. It's because you wish to manipulate the casual fan/poster that is not knowledgeable in NBA history and does not recognize that those awards were not present for those legends to receive. Making Lebron seem greater than them based off a criteria that a impartial individual would never, EVER use.)

2. Find me a post in the last month, year, even [I]three[/I] years that I constructed using awards other than MVP and FMVP to compare Kobe to other legends such as Jerry West or Moses Malone.

That's where you lied, and continue to lie Pauk. Don't think I'm too busy at work to call you out for your ignorance, because as long as you continue to fabricate arguments based on half truths or pure lies to discredit my, or any credible poster's credence, I'll be here to make sure you're attempts not only fail, but are highlighted from ISH to see.

Just because I don't wake up with Lebron's dick in my mouth every morning, doesn't mean I hate him. Likewise, just because I call you out for your nonsense doesn't mean I hate you. What I [B]do[/B] strongly dislike is when people try and prompt Lebron up on a pedestal that he hadn't completed earned yet. What I [I]do[/I] have great disdain for is when you push your agenda on this board, and attempt to discredit other great players in order to firmly place Lebron where your obsess believes he should be.

Lebron will be one of the top 5 players to ever play this game by the time he retires. But he is nowhere near that right now, and no amount of "Player of the Month" awards will change that. You know what will? Sustained dominance and team success in the form of championships. That is what will for me, and many other posters.

I dislike you Lebron stans just as much as the Kobe stans. You both are blinded by your dedication to one basketball player, which in itself is pathetic.

Get a grip on life boy.

[QUOTE=RRR3]:applause: :applause:

Wait a minute :biggums:
This is ISH :no:
stop with all that realistic reasonable BS :rant
You're supposed to either say [B]"HURR Kobe da GOAT LeChoke sucks" or "HURR LeBron da GOAT KoBrick sucks" [/B]:no:[/QUOTE]


:roll: :roll: :roll:

LeBron is going to be in the top 10 eventually anyways, so it doesn't matter at this point.

[QUOTE]stop with all that realistic reasonable BS[/QUOTE]

There's actually more than enough of that on ISH by certain quality posters.

I don't get what pauk's talking about not being a homer either or that there isn't bias in his posts, in this thread alone (KG215 pointed that out earlier).

Also, didn't he make a thread (that got deleted, I think...) about being happy or whatever... that the 2011 Heat didn't win the title, because it would have meant that Wade would have been Finals MVP over LeBron ?

And then there was this:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237702[/url]

I mean, just come out with it. Sometimes everyone is biased or a homer. Eventually, some people move on from a sport because their favourites don't play anymore.

Lebron

Can't we all just get along and be friends? :D

[QUOTE=Freedom Kid7]Can't we all just get along and be friends? :D[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.scenicreflections.com/ithumbs/the_wolf_hug_Wallpaper_x7pyd.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I don't get what pauk's talking about not being a homer either or that there isn't bias in his posts, in this thread alone (KG215 pointed that out earlier).

Also, didn't he make a thread (that got deleted, I think...) about being happy or whatever... that the 2011 Heat didn't win the title, because it would have meant that Wade would have been Finals MVP over LeBron ?

And then there was this:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237702[/url]

I mean, just come out with it. Sometimes everyone is biased or a homer. Eventually, some people move on from a sport because their favourites don't play anymore.[/QUOTE]

I just can't believe he'd think he could keep using POTM and not get called on it. I'm not the first either, but he just likes to ignore it and/or make excuses when someone calls him on stuff like that. I mean at least use it to compare LeBron to players from the '01-'02 on when the award was given to a player from each conference, and definitely don't use it to compare LeBron to players who never had a chance to win the award.

Another one I don't like (and pauk's not the only one that does it) is using All-Star Game MVPs. I get it, a certain player was the best of the best for one night...in an exhibition game. It shouldn't be used to bolster a resume for an all-time list. Some players simply just don't care all that much about "bringing it" in an All-Star game, it heavily favors perimeter players, there's zero defense played in the first three quarters, and some players games just don't do well in that type of setting.

As for my vote, I'm going with Jerry West. I do think LeBron is in this tier of players now, even with just one ring, because his peak has been so good, and the playoff run he put together this year was incredible. However, I still think it's a little too early to vote for him at #11.

[QUOTE=KG215]I mean at least use it to compare LeBron to players from the '01-'02 on when the award was given to a player from each conference, and definitely don't use it to compare LeBron to players who never had a chance to win the award.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Also, the DPOY voting. The award didn't even exist in Oscar and West's time... that got me confused than using POTM.

And Dantley, Gervin, and King in contention with Moses for best player in 83 ?

[QUOTE]Another one I don't like (and pauk's not the only one that does it) is using All-Star Game MVPs.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, those are completely pointless in terms of who's most accomplished.

There's virtually no defense being played for like more than 3 quarters of a ASG, unless it's the game is close and the players start to turn it up on D.

Lebron James

LeBron James

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Agreed.

Also, the DPOY voting. The award didn't even exist in Oscar and West's time... that got me confused than using POTM.

And Dantley, Gervin, and King in contention with Moses for best player in 83 ?



Yeah, those are completely pointless in terms of who's most accomplished.

There's virtually no defense being played for like more than 3 quarters of a ASG, unless it's the game is close and the players start to turn it up on D.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I forgot all about DPOY not being awarded until the early 80s.

[QUOTE=pauk]Originally Posted by pauk
......................Lebron............Oscar..... .........West..........
MVP...................3...................1....... .............0..............
FMVP..................1..................0........ ............1...............
CHAMP...............1(the man).....1(sidekick)......1(sidekick)..
ROTY................Yes................Yes........ .........No.............
DPOY..............RunnerUp.........No............. .....No.............
1st All-NBA.........6...................9................. ..10.............
1st All-Def..........4...................0................ ....4..............
All-Star MVP........2...................3.................. .1..............
All-Star..............8...................12.......... .......14..............
POTM................20..................0......... ..........0...............
Best Player?.......Yes..............Never.............Never...........[/QUOTE]

So, for those of you who may not know....

He uses two awards to compare LeBron to West and Robertson that [B]didn't exist during West and Oscar's careers.[/B]

[B]Defensive Player of the Year:[/B] 1982-1983 was the first season they awarded DPOY.

[B]Player of the Month:[/B] 1979-1980 was the first season this was awarded. 2001-2002 was the first season the award was given to a player from both conferences.

Both West and Robertson retired after the 1973-1974 season.

:roll: :roll: If you look through the pages there are people who voted for Lebron more than once. Lebron fans are funny



I vote Lebron though. I wonder how he only got 1 vote last round

Jerry West

[IMG]http://cdn.tss.uproxx.com/TSS/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/isiah-thomas.jpg[/IMG]

Lebron is right now #11.

Jerry West.

[QUOTE=KG215]So, for those of you who may not know....

He uses two awards to compare LeBron to West and Robertson that [B]didn't exist during West and Oscar's careers.[/B]

[B]Defensive Player of the Year:[/B] 1982-1983 was the first season they awarded DPOY.

[B]Player of the Month:[/B] 1979-1980 was the first season this was awarded. 2001-2002 was the first season the award was given to a player from both conferences.

Both West and Robertson retired after the 1973-1974 season.[/QUOTE]

Exactly and thank you.

Also agree with you and Legend's sentiments on using ASG MVPs. I also don't place ant weight on them at all. If a player was great enough in his era, there are more formidable accolades and achievements that would drive home the same premise as a MVP for an All Star Game.

Moses Malone

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Pauk suddenly went mute until those of us that questioned him seemingly log off ISH for the day.

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

The Big O Oscar Robertson

[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Pauk suddenly went mute until those of us that questioned him seemingly log off ISH for the day.

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I've noticed in a lot of the ridiculous threads he starts he only posts that one time in the OP, and never responds again after being called out on some of his BS.

[QUOTE=Dave3]OP hates Wilt, so he ended both votings that had Wilt close to second way too prematurely. Bird won with 27 votes, almost half of what some other spots needed, and the other ones were a much bigger difference than 4 votes. Obvious bias is obvious.[/QUOTE]
No

#5 Thread made on 8/20 8:36 PM
#6 Thread made on 8/21 12:06 PM

15 hours

That is longer than almost every thread.

I posted the wrong results, here was the most updated results on #5
[QUOTE]#5 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops Voting

32- Larry Bird
29- Wilt Chamberlain
3- Kobe Bryant
2- Shaquille O'Neal
1- Julius Erving
1- Lebron James[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=rmt]I find it strange that OP ended the voting for #5 between Bird/Wilt with only a total vote of 56 with a very small margin of 4 between them. Yet he let the voting for #8 between Kobe/Duncan go on for a total of 124 votes with a margin of 8 between them. Then #10 voting was over in a flash.[/QUOTE]
The #5 thread went on 15 hours. Longer than nearly all the others.

[QUOTE=Noof]Jerry West[/QUOTE]


Funny how history has been changed over the years. As teammates Elgin was the clear better player. Injuries slowed him down and Jerry took off . But at there pick withoout question Elgin wqs the better player

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Barkley...Statistically is Actual Closer to Top 10

Top 10 All Time In EFF
Top 10 All Time in Season PER
Top 9 All Time in Play-Off PER
Top 5 All Time in Plus/Minus (+/-)
Top 4 All Time In Shot Made/Missed Diferential
Top 8 All Time in WS Per 48 Minutes[/B][/QUOTE]


Put down the bath salts, bro.

I vote Lebron :pimp:

[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]Once again, since you always insist on ignoring the points of any argument a poster engages with you:

1. Why don't you explain why you continue to use awards to compare Lebron to old legends such as Oscar and Jerry, when you very well know those awards did not exist in the era those legends played.
[/quote]

For the same reason Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain is compared to Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and such...

FMVP, DPOY, 3PT line, steals, blocks didnt exist back then for example, so you work with what a player had and what a player did not have... you can either go with hypothetic opinions like: "Russell would have 11 FMVPs if that award did exist back then", that would make him the GOAT wouldnt it? or you can go with facts... "He had none"...

With your logic, Russell should be the GOAT considering he hypothetically could have got many FMVPs...

It doesnt work that way...

[quote]
2. Find me a post in the last month, year, even [I]three[/I] years that I constructed using awards other than MVP and FMVP to compare Kobe to other legends such as Jerry West or Moses Malone.[/quote]

Why should i? Even if i did, what would that prove? I dont get this one to be honest with you...

[quote]
That's where you lied, and continue to lie Pauk. Don't think I'm too busy at work to call you out for your ignorance, because as long as you continue to fabricate arguments based on half truths or pure lies to discredit my, or any credible poster's credence, I'll be here to make sure you're attempts not only fail, but are highlighted from ISH to see.[/quote]

What? Where? When? Lie? Failed attempts? What the hell are you talking about?

[quote]
Just because I don't wake up with Lebron's dick in my mouth every morning, doesn't mean I hate him.[/quote]

Sure, but if you do discredit what a player has accomplished then there is a reason some human might question your agenda...

[quote]
Likewise, just because I call you out for your nonsense doesn't mean I hate you. What I [B]do[/B] strongly dislike is when people try and prompt Lebron up on a pedestal that he hadn't completed earned yet.[/quote]

Pedestal #11 is where Lebrons accomplishments are at, not any higher, you could debate Jerry West, Moses Malone and Oscar Robertson using different criterias, but thats the pedestal he is at based on not my opinion, but the accomplishments you see right infront of your eyes i often here presented for you.

[quote]
What I [I]do[/I] have great disdain for is when you push your agenda on this board, and attempt to discredit other great players in order to firmly place Lebron where your obsess believes he should be.
[/quote]

wow... thats actually EXACTLY how i wanted to portray you, so do mind reading & considering what you just said.

I mean... what is my agenda anyways? Tell me? Do i want to boost Lebron to somewhere where he doesnt belong you think? How come? Didnt i just show you his accomplishments compared to those others who accomplished less?

But you? Its YOU who just discredited a greater career in order to firmly place someone else where your obsess believes he should be.

Reversed psychology my friend, when you try to portray someone else when infact you are actually talking about only yourself...

[quote]Lebron will be one of the top 5 players to ever play this game by the time he retires. But he is nowhere near that right now, and no amount of "Player of the Month" awards will change that. [/quote]

Who said anything about POTM boosting Lebron to Top 5? What the hell...

[quote]
You know what will? Sustained dominance and team success in the form of championships. That is what will for me, and many other posters.[/quote]

I guess so....

[quote]
I dislike you Lebron stans just as much as the Kobe stans. You both are blinded by your dedication to one basketball player, which in itself is pathetic.[/quote]

Did you just call me a Lebron stan for showing you [SIZE="7"][B]STRONG FACTS & ACCOMPLISHMENTS[/B][/SIZE] to why Lebron should be #11?

Thats all i did, me liking Lebron has NOTHING to do with this....

Tired of people like you immediately excusing your lack of retaliation by commenting about that guy being a stan... because you cant retaliate... who can retaliate facts which proves your statement wrong afterall...

Either present me with facts to why Jerry West, Oscar Robertson should be above Lebron or stop wasting my time with that nonsense....

Jerry West

[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Pauk suddenly went mute until those of us that questioned him seemingly log off ISH for the day.

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.[/QUOTE]

I am not here 24-7, but i will reply your absurd babble whenever i have time.... I just wonder how long you truly think you can go with your misdirectional posts...

1. I showed Lebrons accomplishments next to West, Oscar, Malone... showing you why Lebron should be #11...
2. You still voted for a less accomplished player...
3. I asked simply why, i respect your opinion, have nothing against it, i was just interested thats all...
4. You couldnt retaliate, so instead you just started to ramble about something completely else, insulted me, called me a Lebron stan and so on and so on...

So you see, me going mute is only a wish for YOU... because only then could you ignore those facts i presented for you and then you could continue to live in a fantasy world of yours where your opinions is all the "facts" you need...

[QUOTE=pauk]I am not here 24-7, but i will reply your absurd babble whenever i have time.... I just wonder how long you truly think you can go with your misdirectional posts...[/QUOTE]

Why don't you tell us why you insist on using pointless awards like ASG and awards that didn't exist in the eras of some of the players you're making a case for LeBron to be ranked ahead of?

I mean you even include DPOY to use for LeBron vs. West and Oscar, even go as far to mention LeBron is a 1x DPOY runner-up, and [B]make no mention that the award DIDN'T EXIST when West an Oscar were playing.[/B]

Moses Malone

[QUOTE=KG215]Why don't you tell us why you insist on using pointless awards like ASG and awards that didn't exist in the eras of some of the players you're making a case for LeBron to be ranked ahead of?

I mean you even include DPOY to use for LeBron vs. West and Oscar, even go as far to mention LeBron is a 1x DPOY runner-up, and [B]make no mention that the award DIDN'T EXIST when West an Oscar were playing.[/B][/QUOTE]

I presented you with ALL NBA accomplishments (minus the milestones, records, stats and so on)... thats all i did... then its up to you..

Whatever accomplishments you want to compare Lebron with West, Moses and Oscar... go ahead, he has them beat, except the longevity accomplishments (all-star selections for example)...

...and please stop confusing me with a Lebron stan, if West had a Championship where he was THE MAN of instead and all those MVPs then i would call him better.... but thats not the case... its extremly simple... that "But ur teh just teh Lebron stan!!!!onee!11" excuse wont work here...

LeBron James

What's really strange is....for years we heard 'winning is overrated"....."winning is a team acomplishment"....__________ (fill in star who won) only wins because of a great team"

- Now that Lebron won a Title in a asterik season he is now the 11th greatest player according to ISH...he basically jumped at least 15 spots:roll:

for winning a title.

- yet the same criteria doesn't go for other superstars who won more...alot more.

:hammerhead:

[QUOTE=KG215]Why don't you tell us why you insist on using pointless awards like ASG and awards that didn't exist in the eras of some of the players you're making a case for LeBron to be ranked ahead of?

I mean you even include DPOY to use for LeBron vs. West and Oscar, even go as far to mention LeBron is a 1x DPOY runner-up, and [B]make no mention that the award DIDN'T EXIST when West an Oscar were playing.[/B][/QUOTE]


He makes no mention that the standards have changed on how some awards are given out. For instance the MVP used to be based on player vote, rather than media.



I guess in a few years when Lebron moves up, and we compare him to Jordan, we can use "Slam Dunk Champions" on the list. :lol

[B]Lebron James[/B]

1x Champion
1x Finals MVP
3x MVP
8x All-Star
8x All-NBA Selections
4x All-Defensive Selections
1x Scoring Champion

Jerry West? Lebron accomplished just as much in a tougher era. The league doesn't compare to what it is now.

Moses Malone? 1 ring, 1 finals mvp, 3 mvps...Lebron has all that.

Oscar? 1 ring as an old man behind Kareem, 0 finals mvps. Lebron's 27-7-7 career average in this era is better than Oscar's triple doubles in the 60s era which had an all-time high pace. He wouldn't that that in this era that's for sure.

Isiah? Don't know why he got 2 votes. Isn't even in the conversation, Lebron is just better.

David Robinson? Got 1 vote, but he never led a team to a title like Lebron has.

Barkely? Lebron has accomplished much more in his career

[QUOTE=pauk]I presented you with ALL NBA accomplishments (minus the milestones, records, stats and so on)... thats all i did... then its up to you..

Whatever accomplishments you want to compare Lebron with West, Moses and Oscar... go ahead, he has them beat, except the longevity accomplishments (all-star selections for example)...

...and please stop confusing me with a Lebron stan, if West had a Championship where he was THE MAN of instead and all those MVPs then i would call him better.... but thats not the case... its extremly simple... that "But ur teh just teh Lebron stan!!!!onee!11" excuse wont work here...[/QUOTE]


Lebron never went up against a dynasty like the 1960s Boston Celtics.

Not all rings are equal, and not all awards are equal. Get it through your skull.